Its understated how much of a difference having someone who can cover the ground he does, makes. Completely changes the dynamic of the team.
3
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 21
- Clean sheets
- 9
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
Exactly, with his arm up over his head when he slides/blocks, you just know one of those will his arm against Pool in the penalty box.
Your concerns are valid and he might turn out to be injury prone but I feel it's a bit premature to label him as such at this current juncture. He came into the Leipzig team as a teen after Upamecano was ruled out of for a long period of time which meant Konate became a regular and some believe he was over played at a young age which caused his muscle injury which kept him out for a long time. But such was his performance levels he became a ever present in the 18/19 season that it became difficult to rest him at the business end of the season which eventually took it's toll on the young teenager.Ok, I don’t have the details. But I watch Leipzig every now and then since Forsberg moved there and it has struck me that Konaté has not played much the last 2 years.
What I have seen from him in both the league and CL is however very impressive. If he can stay injury free he could be a top-5 CB in the world for many years. But I just don’t think it is worth the risk considering we have Bailly, Tuanzebe, Jones, Rojo who all have spent more time injured than fit. And who knows how it will go with Lindelof’s back. This is just an opinion, I’m not a doctor
But it'll be interesting to see how he does for the remainder of the season now he's back in contention against Wolfsburg in the next game.
I’m just going to go ahead and completely disagree with this take
He's started stringing together some very good performances and it's going to get better.
Maybe I haven't explained myself enough or you're choosing to focus on the irrelevant parts. I've said many times, a higher line and other defensive factors like pressing higher as a team etc are more dependent on the coaching, not one single player*. However, Bailly's individual abilities mean we have more moments to put sustained pressure on the opposition as he simply do not retreat as much into his own half as much as someone like Lindelof does. Bailly being more aggressive in shutting down/challenging/committing fouls higher up the pitch/being the last man and dealing with the attacker more decisively are all attributes to why he's a better fit for any team that wants to be more proactive and assert themselves.
These are not 'theoretical assumptions' Every Tom, Dick and Harry can see we are more assertive with Bailly in defence. Nobody is raving about his performances because they secretly love Bailly, they're responding to what they see. It's a small sample size sure but it's undeniable. I doubt there are stats available but I'll be interested in things like 'the distance a ball is carried by the opposition when Bailly is involved in the defensive action', 'the distance Bailly retreats when on the ball', 'passes into team mates, which leaves them with a good option' etc. Cloud7's post below explains perfectly what I mean about Lindelof's criticism.
*Under Ole in this time of moment, we are not going to turn into a high line/pressing machine regardless of whether we play against Burnley or Liverpool. And to be fair to Ole, his current methods have us sitting at the top of the league so even if i don't think it's the way going forward, for now I don't think there can be many complaints until after the season ends.
As for the Maguire comparisons, I agree, it's laughable and shouldn't be taken seriously. I hope and think it's in the minority, just as the same opinions, who said Lindelof is the better defender. Based on current conditions, it should always be Maguire + 1.
Your last suggestion can work due to the number of games and neccessary rotation we need to do but I wouldn't based it because of Bailly = good against weaker teams and Lindelof = good against stronger teams. Statistically it may be 'true' because again the sample size is small but you're doing a disservice to Bailly by preempting this label that he's just a instinctive athletic freak. You're massively downplaying the ability he has shown.
Also it would mean Bailly playing 80% of games and Lindelof 20%
. The Liverpool game shouldn't be a make or break game for Bailly (if he starts) but it will be another good test to see how he performs..Yes, actually it is just theoretical assumptions until we see it. So far, we haven’t seen it and it certainly hasn't been seen in the results.
I don’t agree with you that “ It's a small sample size sure but it's undeniable” but if we take this sample size we can see that we undeniably score less goals with Bailly compared to Lindelof. When Lindelof has played we have scored 2.25 goals per match, Bailly 1.4 goals per match. Obviously in is not only up to him, but there is no indication that we play more offensive football with him. And we really don’t press more with Bailly.
If all other things equal, a defender who can win back the ball high up, would be better for a high line. However: all other things are far from equal. They have many other qualities that are important, which is why we don't see the "expected" effect. Bailly is good at winning back the ball higher up, but it is not a huge difference to the others. I would assume he is better at winning it back on the ground but worse in the air. He also quite often ends up defending with clearances and throwing himself on the ground (low reactive defending). Last match we didn’t see much winning back the ball high at all except some aerials Maguire won. Note that giving away a free kick or throw in is not winning back the ball, it is stalling or stopping a counter.
It is not down playing Bailly’s abilities to want him against weaker teams and Lindelof against better. It is valuing the fact that Lindelof most of the time play very well against the top strikers. He also seem more suitable against teams who play a high press. Also Bailly’s strengths might be more useful against weaker teams than strong sides. Who will play probably also comes down to Lindelof’s back and Bailly’s fitness. Bailly has been good, but Lindelof also had a really good run before he was rested for injury.
I didn't mean to label him as injury prone, just saying that there is an increased risk that he is injury prone. And that I don't think we are in a position where we can take that risk.
It is incredible to have performed at that level at his young age. IMO Leipzig have good defenders individually, but they don't work well as a unit (CBs are often left 1v1 as example). It would be interesting to see him in a better organised defence. Will it make him better, or make him shine less?
If Bailly is fit for the rest of the season or just reasonably fit such that he would make an acceptable number of appearances at this level of performances we wont sign a CB in the summer, it wouldnt be sensible with regard to our other needs. I think we want a DM and Grealish/Sancho/Halaand and I don't see a way where we can pull this off and go on to spend on a CB too.
If Bailly proves himself as a sustainable option I think we should continue with him and Lindelof alternating as Maguire's partner for the medium term. At least until we have secured a DM and Grealish.
You could be right but I personally hope we do sign the CB that Ole believes he needs to play a more expansive game. Currently we only have one CB that is dominant in the air so it would be good to sign someone young who has the potential to be the dominant force and also gives us a genuine alternative option to Maguire which suits the team.
It also looks like Ole is gonna put the DM signing on the back burner and go with McTominay, Fred, and Matic for another year.
I think it’s pretty obvious that Ole would get pushback from the club if he tried to sign a CB having seen Bailly have a consistent season without injuries. I don’t think it’s realistic that we’ll get that from him, though, so it’s a moot point.
Getting a new top CB is in competition with getting other players. I think it depends on many things. One of them is how if we win the PL or at least stay in the race to the last rounds. After all we are in the lead with current team.
I think there are a few questions that will influence:
1. Can Bailly stay injury free and perform consistently at a good level?
2. Will Lindelof recover from his back issues?
3. Will Tuanzebe’s development start and take him to the next level?
If the answer is no on any of the two first, then we inevitably need a new CB. If the answer is yes to all 3 in combination with us doing well in the PL, then I think there are more urgent areas for us to strengthen.
We’re a top clubs so I think there’s room for this scenario
Maguire/Lindelof for one spot
Bailly/New (fast) CB for another
Tuanzebe for development and back up
Bailly is a really good CB at the top of his game (like now), so much so he’s definitely good enough for our first team. The issue is how long will it last? Hopefully this is the end of his bad run of injuries/mad moments but just the way he plays tells me otherwise.
Maguire/Lindelof for one spot
Bailly/New (fast) CB for another
Tuanzebe for development and back up
Bailly is a really good CB at the top of his game (like now), so much so he’s definitely good enough for our first team. The issue is how long will it last? Hopefully this is the end of his bad run of injuries/mad moments but just the way he plays tells me otherwise.
Again you have chosen to focus on a strawman argument. Does playing Pogba over McFred mean we dominate the ball more? Not neccessarily but the fact is that Pogba has different qualities compared to those two.
The same is with Bailly. We are more assertive in the back with him and his individual abilities are plain for all to see that it is suited to the type of football we want to play and need to if we want to play better.
No one has said about more pressing or more offensive football because attributing that to one player's influence is a ridiculous argument. If you want 'results' or 'stats', why don't you find me similar ones to what I suggested? They may not exist in a written measure on some website but they exist on the pitch. If you can't see with your own eyes how much better Bailly has been as a centre back partner for Maguire, then you are blinded by your unbelievable bias for Lindelof.
No one is hailing Bailly as the saviour and it's a small sample size but if you look at the outpouring of posts for someone of Bailly's qualities in this thread and Maguire's, then you have to question why literally no one bar a few fan-boys will say the same in Lindelof's thread.
The bigger picture is not that Bailly is great. The bigger picture is that, whilst Lindelof has been a 'good' servant/placeholder his limitations are clear as day. The bigger picture is not that we kick Lindelof to the curb but that we recognise he is simply not good enough and that many of us have been saying this from day one. The problem is that you make good fundamental points but you continue to downplay Bailly's performances and lift up Lindelof's at any opportunity, which reeks of insecurity.
If you used the same energy and critiical eye when viewing Lindelof's performances, I'm sure you could very well be doing my job in this discussion.
So, Bailly vs Mane at the weekend?
There is no point in trying to insult me all the time, I could care less really.
It’s fine that you think he is very assertive and it gives you joy. I prefer to watch Zlatan over Messi for example, because he is more entertaining although Messi is a better player. Personally I wouldn’t describe his style as assertive, but it is a highly subjective quality so will not argue about that.
A strange argument: “people at this forum praise him more than Lindelof” so he must be better. He is the puppy of the month. That’s how it works around here. Four weeks ago, the same crowd wanted him kicked out because they thought he was worthless.
Not gonna lie I would be gutted if CDM is not one of the three main priorities in the summer window, however there does seem a real lack of concrete links to any at all. I have seen the likes of Zakaria, Koopmeiners and Locatelli touted as candidates for that position but will be honest I don't know enough about them due to not watching enough european football. Obviously I have seen more of the likes of Ndidi as he plays in the Premier League but can't help thinking it would be negligent to leave this issue unaddressed for yet another season.
It's only insulting to you because you pass yourself as impartial with these stats and fundamental arguments when it comes to dissecting everyone else but then choose to only use it when it suits your agenda that Lindelof performs really well and is good enough a defender for Utd. I'd hate to use the phrase 'I'm calling you out on it' but it is.
I don't disagree Bailly may not be the answer long term and neither is Lindelof but your lack of recognition that he is just a flavour of the month when he's been performing to a clear good standard is agenda driven.
As always with posts, the truth is somewhere in the middle. People claiming Bailly is better than Maguire is ludicrous but there are many saying he's a better fit due to his front foot approach; there's simply no talk of that about Lindelof. Look, don't get me wrong, I know how fickle this can be. One bad performance against Liverpool and the posts will come rushing in again but that doesn't detract Lindelof's limitaitons are clear as day to see. Lindelof's done well for his standard but he's not some irreplaceable player, who's been putting elite performances and simply doesn't deserve this amount of attention.
Grealish will only be an option if Pogba leaves. Haaland is highly unlikely if Cavani extends his contract and another stumbling block would be Riola and his preference for Spain. Sancho, a right back and centre-half are more of a priority. We sold Smalling without adding anyone, Rojo and Jones are basically surplus to requirements. A left footed centre back would be a likely addition if one can be scouted.
What about a CDM
My take is that both have been performing well, I don’t see Bailly as an upgrade but a nice surprise that he could come in from the bench when needed and perform well several games in a row.
Yes. Should also be priority with Matic on his last legs. Mata's replacement could be either Pelestri or Diallo.
I think he's been great for well...at least the three games or so he's started.
If he can stay healthy it will probably tie United over until June. I'd rather have them search for a quality CB over the summer transfer window when more players are available on the market. , as opposed to running out and trying to get a quick fix now.
It would mean Bailley could sub for the new CB, Lindelof for Maguire, and Tw
If he can stay healthy it will probably tie United over until June. I'd rather have them search for a quality CB over the summer transfer window when more players are available on the market. , as opposed to running out and trying to get a quick fix now.
It would mean Bailley could sub for the new CB, Lindelof for Maguire, and Tw
Bailly really is a better partner for Maguire if he can stay fit.
Bailly shows the blueprint of the type of CB we need to partner Maguire, it's just hard to believe he'll stay fit for long, we still need to get one in once we finally broom Rojo and Calamity Jones.
Occasionally you do have players who are crocks and then suddenly sort their regime and rehab out, like Ings.
Jones is someone that it is right to have completely given up on but Bailly still has youth and time on his side and was unlucky having two separate big injuries (ankle 2018, knee 2019) which probably affect us thinking he's always getting injured when, in reality, he's nowhere near the level of crock we make him out to be. I honestly think he just needs to play once a week at the moment, I personally think he's our best CB and his covering pace alone improves our entire back line.
Jones is someone that it is right to have completely given up on but Bailly still has youth and time on his side and was unlucky having two separate big injuries (ankle 2018, knee 2019) which probably affect us thinking he's always getting injured when, in reality, he's nowhere near the level of crock we make him out to be. I honestly think he just needs to play once a week at the moment, I personally think he's our best CB and his covering pace alone improves our entire back line.
Saw that on reddit, too.
It's a stat that shouldn't be ignored and I'm sure Ole's team knows it.
playing well but cant help but wonder when his usual injury will come up. Def not someone to count on being always available like maguire. Maybe his luck has finally changed but unfortunately just doubt it.
When did this happen?
He's been injured this season already. Fair enough he's had what 4-5 good games in a row. But does that amount to a consistent season?
There's a problem with that stat though isn't there? If you were to do the same with Maguire for example then you would have a sample of what, 1, 2 games without?
It's obvious and now a bit of a cliche isn't it, but he needs to stay fit or it's all a bit moot isn't it? Ole has to keep Lindelof on side really because history would suggest that he'll need to play him next game...
If, and we all hear that a lot don't we with regards to Bailly, but if he can stay fit then he moves us up a level defensively alongside Maguire so much so that we wouldn't need another centre back in the summer to be honest and could spend elsewhere.
I’m not saying it has. My point, if perhaps not expressed well, was that if Bailly had a good, injury free season and if Ole asked for a new CB, he’d probably not get very far.
99% sure what you mean but just to be clear, you're talking about the fact that he's only played 1/3 of the games there, right? Good thing to point out imo. You made me wonder whether the club analyzes points data on that level.
I was just saying Ole and the staff will (hopefully) be aware of that stat and act accordingly when planning for the present/future.
Only defender I actually look forward to watching
Honestly we could do a lot worse than Maguire, Bailly, Axel, lindelof, and the young lad in the academy who’s name I have forgotten as our CB’s, and mctominay when we have a huge crisis.
Maybe a CB isn’t an urgent priority because ultimately if we sign one then one of the above probably needs to move on as they won’t get games.
Maybe a CB isn’t an urgent priority because ultimately if we sign one then one of the above probably needs to move on as they won’t get games.
Can't think of a player in our squad I wan't to succeed more than Bailly. He seems like such a good guy and teammate outside the field, and on the field he has a fantastic mixture of athleticism, calmness and craziness. Bit of contradicting traits, but he can be absolutely murdered by a opponent and then just get up with absolutely no fuss. ...then two minutes later do a totally unnecessary scissor kick clearance in the middle of the park. He is so much fun to watch, when he contains himself and only let loose in the right moments.
He is a box office player. The one thing I like about him is he will put himself into anything that comes into the box.
Love watching him play.
Well finally some evidence of what the less reactionary among us have said for so long, even when facing the overwhelming tide of pessimism: Bailly has overwhelmingly been good but has had one or two major failings amplified such that a huge chunk of the fanbase genuinely believe that he makes a major error every other game.
Not as random as you might think... Watch closely and you will observe that while he tends not to have an initial reaction to a perceived slight, his wilder acts tend to be acts of retaliation/otherwise premeditated -- never seen him apologize to his victims.
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