[Ekeke]

Well he doesn’t look uncomfortable with the ball, which is my point. Lindelof is the closest thing we have to a ball playing centre back, Bailly in possession doesn’t look awakward but does stupid things - and this doesn’t get picked up on enough.

He wasnt comfortable with his first touch today, and is always our worst culprit with sliced clearances and skying the ball instead of clearing it with distance.

He doesnt often panic with his passing, but thats it. He's very nervous and panicky with everything else

 

[VeevaVee]

Sorry misread your post. Too hyped up. Time to take my little poochy for a walk I think.

Haha no worries. Give the poochy a pet from me

 

[Ekeke]

Right then why would he trust Jose to go buy more after he bought lindelof and bailly??

And if he don’t trust him then he needs to sack him

Wrong. He obviously trusts him to manage the players we have better than the alternatives right now - else he'd be gone, but he doesnt trust him to spend £70 million on a CB unless its who the club considered the world's best CB, Varane.

 

[beergod]

Because expecting any manager to not sign any duds is mental. And I don’t necessarily think they’re both duds. But they clearly need a steady hand alongside them to get the best out of them. See above.

It's not a healthy situation. The club have taken a lot of punts on promising CBs, but those players also need that steady hand that the club doesn't want to "overpay" to acquire. When you take a look at your CBs and they would all be better with a steady hand next to them, price is almost irrelevant.

 

[I'm David Moyes damnit]

The problem with Bailly is that on a good day he's our best defender by a country mile and appears to have all the tools to become a world-class CB, whereas on an off day he's absolutely calamitous, and easily our worst and most unreliable defender.

You very rarely get much in between, i.e. an average performance. The worrying thing is that in his first season, his excellent game to stinker ratio was about 80:20, which was fine as this could be attributed simply to a young defender ironing out the flaws in his game, whereas now the ratio is around 50:50. Furthermore, this discrepancy in performances by a CB is much more damaging to the team than in any other position on the pitch, except perhaps CM. A bad day defensively costs you goals and loses you matches, whereas an off day for a winger or striker for example just renders them ineffectual, and others can step up to the mark in their place.

The key thing is that he stays (relatively) injury free this season. If so there's still a good chance he can progress into an excellent defender in time, but any major setbacks and I feel he could be wildly inconsistent even into his mid-late 20s, a la Phil Jones. He's a little bit brain dead (a la Phil Jones) so needs to be able to string together quite a few games in order to learn and improve.

 

[Idxomer]

He has a serious problem with concentration. Even in his good games, he is prone to making an error out of nowhere like last season's home game against Liverpool.

 

[Ekeke]

It's not a healthy situation. The club have taken a lot of punts on promising CBs, but those players also need that steady hand that the club doesn't want to "overpay" to acquire. When you take a look at your CBs and they would all be better with a steady hand next to them, price is almost irrelevant.

They werent punts. They were top end available CBs from non-top clubs, thats why they were expensive for the time. But they were chosen poorly.

We have been very good at spending money over the past few years, but very bad at getting our money's worth.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think he's sane, really.

 

[::sonny::]

Imagine how many headers we would concede if we were forced to play a Bailly and Lindelof CB pairing.

Embrace reality and deal with it

 

[beergod]

They werent punts. They were top end available CBs from non-top clubs, thats why they were expensive for the time. But they were chosen poorly.

We have been very good at spending money over the past few years, but very bad at getting our money's worth.

All of the CBs in the price and age range we've been shopping are punts.

 

[Ekeke]

All of the CBs in the price and age range we've been shopping are punts.

They were the same profile of players that Maguire and Toby were this summer

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

All of our players were bad, but he took it up a notch.

He had a good debut season all things considered, but has been poor ever since then IMO.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Can we talk about that kick out for the corner? Just what in the feck was that, like genuinely why did he do that?

 

[11101]

Bad day at the office but he was not our worst player and how bad he actually was is being hugely overstated on here.

He was playing CB and RB in one as Young seemed to think he was still at the World Cup playing with a back 3. First and third goals, both times he was forced to leave his position to cover Young's absence. It completely screws him and Lindelof as it leaves acres of space between them and the last thing he needs to be doing is racing to reach a ball near the touchline. You could play Beckenbauer and Baresi, if you asked them to cover the entire width of the pitch like that it would not end well.

 

[11101]

Can we talk about that kick out for the corner? Just what in the feck was that, like genuinely why did he do that?

I think it was a fluffed pass back to De Gea? He was rushing across to cover Young again and miskicked it under pressure.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I think it was a fluffed pass back to De Gea? He was rushing across to cover Young again and miskicked it under pressure.

Surely not? He's running towards the right side touchline and kicks it with his right foot, if he though he was going to get the back to De Gea then he is a dumber player than I thought.

And are you seriously trying to blame that unexplainable shit on Young? That is laughable. Not to mention he is just following the striker from inside to out, that isn't rushing over to cover Young as it wasn't Young's job to be tracking Murray.

 

[11101]

Surely not? He's running towards the right side touchline and kicks it with his right foot, if he though he was going to get the back to De Gea then he is a dumber player than I thought.

And are you seriously trying to blame that unexplainable shit on Young? That is laughable. Not to mention he is just following the striker from inside to out, that isn't rushing over to cover Young as it wasn't Young's job to be tracking Murray.

Thats what it looked like to me. I dont know what else he could have been trying to do.

And yes, that was Young's position to be in. He was caught upfield as he was many times in the game.

 

[Ekeke]

Can we talk about that kick out for the corner? Just what in the feck was that, like genuinely why did he do that?

I think he was just uncomfortable with the pressure by the opposition player and wanted to play the ball out to be safe, but i cant explain why he didnt put it out for a throw in instead...

 

[Isotope]

All of our players were bad, but he took it up a notch.

He had a good debut season all things considered, but has been poor ever since then IMO.

He's physically very good, fast, skillful and very good passer. But I don't see a centerback in him. I was suggesting of moving him to DM, which would suit all his attributes. Jose played him once as DM, and I kinda liked it. Or maybe some kind of an all action midfielder, ala Gatusso, Kante, and Marchisio. He could then burn out all of his excessive hormone, playing in that position.

And I think at this point, there's no harm of trying him there, instead of frozen him because he's awful as CB.

 

[Carl]

I think he was just uncomfortable with the pressure by the opposition player and wanted to play the ball out to be safe, but i cant explain why he didnt put it out for a throw in instead...

Seemed to me he was trying to pass it back to Dave but fecked up. That shit happens, but the challenge for the penalty was a shambles.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He's physically very good, fast, skillful and very good passer. But I don't see a centerback in him. I was suggesting of moving him to DM, which would suit all his attributes. Jose played him once as DM, and I kinda liked it.

And I think at this point, there's no harm of trying him there, instead of frozen him because he's awful as CB.

I don't think he's a very good passer at all.

There's not much difference in his ability on the ball versus someone like Smalling imo.

One looks clumsy, while the other looks panicky.

 

[Isotope]

I don't think he's a very good passer at all.

There's not much difference in his ability on the ball versus someone like Smalling imo.

One looks clumsy, while the other looks panicky.

I think being a CB makes it more difficult to not act panicky. Being the last line, you mess up a pass, then the opponent is through on goal. But he's not Hummel for sure.

 

[Rash Decision]

I don't think he's a very good passer at all.

There's not much difference in his ability on the ball versus someone like Smalling imo.

One looks clumsy, while the other looks panicky.

Bailly is capable of some pretty decent passes that Smalling isn't. The one that always comes to mind is the lofted pass to Lukaku that started the sequence for our second goal against City last season. Of course, that could have been pure luck.

Smalling is by far the more reliable defender at this stage.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Bailly is capable of some pretty decent passes that Smalling isn't. The one that always comes to mind is the lofted pass to Lukaku that started the sequence for our second goal against City last season. Of course, that could have been pure luck.

Smalling is by far the more reliable defender at this stage.

He might be better on the ball than Smalling, but he's a patch off the very best center backs.

Smalling is clearly a better defender than he is at this moment imo

 

[Rash Decision]

He might be better on the ball than Smalling, but he's a patch off the very best center backs.

Smalling is clearly a better defender than he is at this moment imo

Agreed, I don't think Bailly's ability on the ball is anything special, although there's some potential there if he really works at it.

Bailly reminds me of a more extreme Phil Jones - flashier heroics on a good day, worse screw ups on a bad day.

 

[Skills]

Hasn't developed here at all. Still the same player he was 2 years ago.

 

[eams conway]

His performance was embarrassing but also worrying. I've thought of him as by far our best CB but today showed me he's no better than Smalling or Jones. He was absolutely shocking and got ruled by Glenn bloody Murray imagine what Aguero Kane etc will do to him and our other pathetic CB . Jose had been at our club 2 full seasons and our CB situation hasn't changed

 

[99withaflake]

Spends too much time on his abs. Steve Bruce didn't have great abs.

 

[MadMike]

Spends too much time on his abs. Steve Bruce didn't have great abs.

That’s something Steve Bruce could/should have worked on.

 

[Loublaze]

His performance was embarrassing but also worrying. I've thought of him as by far our best CB but today showed me he's no better than Smalling or Jones. He was absolutely shocking and got ruled by Glenn bloody Murray imagine what Aguero Kane etc will do to him and our other pathetic CB . Jose had been at our club 2 full seasons and our CB situation hasn't changed

The same Smalling who embarrassed Kane twice last season by keeping him in his pocket? I don't think so. He's vastly superior performance and consistency wise

 

[forevrared]

Hasn't developed here at all. Still the same player he was 2 years ago.

The first part of last season he looked like he was making very nice strides until his injury. Afterwards, he rarely played, Mourinho even going as far as to say he was leaving him out just because Ivory Coast weren't going to the World Cup.

Obviously today was by far his worst game in a United shirt, but I still think with consistent playing time he can return to being one of our best centrebacks.

 

[Rash Decision]

Hasn't developed here at all. Still the same player he was 2 years ago.

This seems to apply to a good many players under Jose at Utd so far.

 

[MadMike]

Thats what it looked like to me. I dont know what else he could have been trying to do.

And yes, that was Young's position to be in. He was caught upfield as he was many times in the game.

I’m sorry but that’s indeed laughable like @limerickcitykid said. Centre backs track the striker laterally all the time, especially on a punt up field like that. It’s nothing that doesn’t happen a dozen times a game. That this would have “thrown” Bailly who proceeded to put the ball for a corner instead of a throw in, is beyond preposterous.

Young’s playing the fullback role. Part of their job is to push into the attack, as much is it the centre backs jobs to track the strikers. If he didn’t push up we’d be criticising how he offers nothing in attack.

Not saying that Young didn’t leave gaps at times and shouldn’t have done better. But to blame Bailly’s botched clearances, terrible ball controls, and rash tackles (one of which resulted in a pen) on Young? That’s takes making excuses to the next level.

 

[MadDogg]

The first part of last season he looked like he was making very nice strides until his injury. Afterwards, he rarely played, Mourinho even going as far as to say he was leaving him out just because Ivory Coast weren't going to the World Cup.

Bailly did play a decent amount after the injury, and was then dropped because he was playing badly. Mourinho made the world cup comments a month or so later, but that wouldn't have been an issue if Bailly was actually playing well. There was a reason why in the last couple months of the season it was always Smalling (who by then knew he almost certainly wasn't going to the world cup) plus another. Smalling was simply playing better than everyone else, while the spot next to him was open for whoever wanted it. The world cup thing may have been the reason Bailly had less opportunities than the others to stake his claim, but if he'd performed it wouldn't have been an issue and he would've been in the team just like Smalling was.

Bailly's best form was actually in the first two or so months after we signed him. Then his form started dropping, he got injured, came back and went to the ACON, came back from that in absolutely atrocious form, was dropped, came back later in the season and formed a decent partnership with Rojo for about a month (although Rojo was better), then got injured again.

Last season he again started fairly well (although Jones was better), had a couple of shaky games, got injured, and then he never seemed to put two good games back-to-back again. Sure he'd have a great game here and there, but in the next he'd be all over the place. That, combined with the world cup comment from Jose, led him to being our last choice over the last couple of months of the season.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Hasn't developed here at all. Still the same player he was 2 years ago.

If anything he has gone backwards, his first month here has probably been his best period of performances. No doubt he has something but just makes stupid decision after stupid decision.

 

[Kostov]

BRAINLESS. That's the best description you can give for this guy.

 

[TsuWave]

bad game. wasn't helped by having Young on the right who was out of position/leaving acres of space on the right for every single goal

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I thought Bailly was meant to be our best defender according to half the Cafe?

Smalling should be back in - he’s still our best defender.

 

[spiriticon]

BRAINLESS. That's the best description you can give for this guy.

Exactly what I came in to post.

 

[11101]

I’m sorry but that’s indeed laughable like @limerickcitykid said. Centre backs track the striker laterally all the time, especially on a punt up field like that. It’s nothing that doesn’t happen a dozen times a game. That this would have “thrown” Bailly who proceeded to put the ball for a corner instead of a throw in, is beyond preposterous.

Young’s playing the fullback role. Part of their job is to push into the attack, as much is it the centre backs jobs to track the strikers. If he didn’t push up we’d be criticising how he offers nothing in attack.

Not saying that Young didn’t leave gaps at times and shouldn’t have done better. But to blame Bailly’s botched clearances, terrible ball controls, and rash tackles (one of which resulted in a pen) on Young? That’s takes making excuses to the next level.

Defenders track strikers but when they go too far out they pass them off to someone else. Young was not allowing that to happen, and it was pointed out on Match of the Day how Bailly and Lindelof were covering the full width of the pitch. The two centre backs should always be compact together in the middle of the pitch. All three goals originated on that side of the pitch and all three were from players getting in behind Young.