EPL Title Race 20/21

I’m almost certain we will go for 0-0. I think we can get it.
It's been 2 years and 3 months since we last failed to score in a home PL game. I don't think your defense is good enough to keep us out for 90 minutes if you actually go for a 0-0.

If you play to win and we play like we've been playing the last three games though, you could easily come away with 3 points. Hopefully our players are up for it for a change and actually play up to the occasion rather than sleepwalk around on the pitch.
 
I just want us to beat Burnley first. I honestly expect us to lose at Anfield, but it looks likely we'd still be level with Liverpool if we do.

If we get a result at Anfield, it would be huge boost for the team.

Looking at our results this season, i really hate our loss to Arsenal at home.
 
No serious bookmaker will change odds because of high amount of bets, solely. It may be a trigger for them to further analyze and find something they've missed in their model, but money does not change odds for the big bookmakers.
Don't bother. For some people, advanced stats are bunk, oddsmakers don't use them, and City are perennially overrated. Even if all that was true, their idea of bets in having absolute control over odds doesn't make sense. Liverpool have many more fans and are the best team in public opinion. They most probably get a far larger share of fans bets.
 
No. If the bookie believes the chances of Team A to beat Team B are higher, the odds will reflect that. If many punters bet on Team B, they will analyze if they are missing something or may even flag the game to the federation to check for integrity issues (fixed games, etc.). But money doesn't sway the odds.

This is completely wrong. Bookies do not gamble. They will set the initial odds based on probabilities and their own analysis to include a small profit margin.

After that, the odds changes are the betting company just adjusting their odds to ensure the highest guaranteed profit margin which is based entirely on their exposure to all the various outcomes. This is why the odds always tumble when lots of people back something... the bookies exposure to that outcome has massively increased.
 
It’s exactly what it does, doesn’t it? Bookmakers make money on the margin and it’s reliant on the distribution of bets being aligned with the odds.
Yes, bookmakers make money on the margin but they do not adjust the odds based on bets placed. Some games, days, weeks or even months, bookmakers may record losses. But the concept of making a profit in bookmaking is that by having the *correct* odds, the results will average out in accordance and the bookmaker will be profitable.
 
Yes, bookmakers make money on the margin but they do not adjust the odds based on bets placed. Some games, days, weeks or even months, bookmakers may record losses. But the concept of making a profit in bookmaking is that by having the *correct* odds, the results will average out in accordance and the bookmaker will be profitable.
They do lower odds based on bets placed. Trying to place a bet on a horse before the odss come in is a skill in itself.
 
This is completely wrong. Bookies do not gamble. They will set the initial odds based on probabilities and their own analysis to include a small profit margin.

After that, the odds changes are the betting company just adjusting their odds to ensure the highest guaranteed profit margin which is based entirely on their exposure to all the various outcomes.
This is technically true, but doesn't really apply to this situation. There is no mysterious influx of bets that every year sways odds in favour of City. These odds for league winner probably never differ much from the initial values that oddsmakers are setting. And they certainly are using advanced stats.
 
Our last 5 matches are tough. If we don't have cushion of 6 points by then, then it would be very difficult to go all the way.
 
man, this is pandemic period. When the stadium has no fans, what’s the difference between home and away games?
I feel ridiculous that news reporters and pundits keep talking away or home form. Unbelievable non-sense, really.

Players still comfortable in their home stadium and general environment?

I agree been way more away wins than in a normal season but think it will balance out second half of the season.
 
Our last 5 matches are tough. If we don't have cushion of 6 points by then, then it would be very difficult to go all the way.
If we are up there we have the momentum anyway.
Look at Liverpool fans posts on here after dropping points to Fulham compared to their hostile posts after last night.
Theyre rattled. We are either 12 points ahead of them or they regroup and sail above us. I dont think theres an inbetween.
 
It goes against what we would've wanted under Fergie, but maybe this current team will deal with the pressure of chasing and being forced to win to catch up better than being the pace setter. Of course at some point in the season you need to be on top with a bit of breathing room, I just think the longer we can maintain our 'underdog' status vs. Liverpool's perceived superiority it might work in our favour. There's also the risk when playing after everyone else that if they drop points the pressure of us losing is alleviated somewhat which no doubt plays on minds... feck! It's a psychological minefield. That said, since Bruno the mentality has changed and there seems to be a feeling of fortitude within the squad. Beating City in the semi tomorrow would be another marker that we are evolving into a more ruthless and consistent team.
I know it's not a nice look to bemoan being in a competition many clubs would love to be in, but the Europa League is such a chore for a club like Manchester United. If Spurs or Everton do well in that completion it's magical for their fans. With United, you know it's a second tier competition and not the one we used to compete in every year and you can't help but feel a sense of dreariness with it to be honest.
 
Sometimes what you see is what you really get. The proof is there to see. We're the best performing team in the league throughout all of 2020, so all these talks about us being expected to fade away while City (who finally put in a great performance against Chelsea Lord knows after how long) and Liverpool (who've looked like they wouldn't score recently even if the games went on for days) will just run away with the title this season are absurd.

How about just trusting what you see and go from there instead of trying to convince oneself that United sucks because they were underpar the last few years.

A whole year is enough proof to claim consistency. Sure the odd defeats and draws have popped up here and there yet we've still shown more consistency than anyone throughout a whole calendar year.

Taking into consideration the facts stated above, claiming that we'll simply fade away while the 2 teams less consistent than us will just run away with the title is ridiculous.

Fully agree with this.

I am just thinking this intuitively. The factor of fans is obviously the most important one because the allocation of tickets to home and away supporters are not fair. I would say it’s the most important principle component even though it’s not the only one.
I have no data from all teams this season, with data it’s not difficult to quantify the correlation. But, no, I am not aware of any statistical study about this. Of course, I could be wrong.
However, if we take traits from the league table, the chaotic nature suggests the vanishing of some dominant factors from the normal seasons is the cause. Before the season, except Chelsea, most teams could only enhance the squads in an moderated and organic way. So, the absence of fans in game is the most likely to be the most important factor.

Great to see newbies making such reasoned and detailed posts. Keep it up.
 
I know it's not a nice look to bemoan being in a competition many clubs would love to be in, but the Europa League is such a chore for a club like Manchester United. If Spurs or Everton do well in that completion it's magical for their fans. With United, you know it's a second tier competition and not the one we used to compete in every year and you can't help but feel a sense of dreariness with it to be honest.
Yeah, completely agree. The other really gutting thing is it looks as winnable as it's ever likely to be this season as well. It's genuinely wide open. When it became apparent we'd be playing in the Europa League I like everyone else saw a silver lining in that it gave us a very straightforward avenue into the Champions League next season. With our serious uptick in form that boon is essentially gone and I really can't be arsed with it again. There's no doubt Ole will focus on the league and rest players according to our domestic schedule, though. I'm sure he'd sacrifice a finger it meant us pipping the scouse to the title.
 
If we are up there we have the momentum anyway.
Look at Liverpool fans posts on here after dropping points to Fulham compared to their hostile posts after last night.
Theyre rattled. We are either 12 points ahead of them or they regroup and sail above us. I dont think theres an inbetween.
I do. I can see us beating united but not going on a run. On the hand united seem to regroup much better. The most consistant team in the league right now. You beat teams your supposed to and struggle against the top teams which is fine if you keep getting points. On the other hand Liverpool will beat most top teams but get awful draws against the so called lesser teams.
It’s going to be close all the way.
 
I do. I can see us beating united but not going on a run. On the hand united seem to regroup much better. The most consistant team in the league right now. You beat teams your supposed to and struggle against the top teams which is fine if you keep getting points. On the other hand Liverpool will beat most top teams but get awful draws against the so called lesser teams.
It’s going to be close all the way.
I dont think we struggle that much v top sides. Theres a myth going around that we struggle v low blocks so if you take the Spurs game as the freak it was, every top side has set up defensivley against us and we are never in real danger of losing.
That plays into our hands from now, surely to Christ Pep etc cant park the bus at home against us so lets see how they cope.
Either Liverpool run away with it or crumble imo. Your success was built on belief and work ethic. If that goes then it all goes, i cant see how you win the title with this middle of the road approach.
 
I've enjoyed this run we've been on, it's been great. But it's probably wise to temper that enthusiasm with some stats.

Here are our 10 league wins this season... we've won six by the odd goal...

Brighton 2 Man Utd 3
Newcastle 1 Man Utd 4
Everton 1 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 1 West Brom 0
Southampton 2 Man Utd 3

West Ham 1 Man Utd 3
Sheffield United 2 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 6 Leeds 2
Man Utd 1 Wolves 0
Man Utd 2 Aston Villa 1


Here they are again... we've only managed two clean sheets...

Brighton 2 Man Utd 3
Newcastle 1 Man Utd 4
Everton 1 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 1 West Brom 0
Southampton 2 Man Utd 3
West Ham 1 Man Utd 3
Sheffield United 2 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 6 Leeds 2
Man Utd 1 Wolves 0
Man Utd 2 Aston Villa 1

Yes, we're better than we were, and we're in contention at the moment. I still think we need to improve to land the title, especially our defence.
 
Putting this thread on ignore until we win a couple of games. Bye.
 
It could be the first legitimate three way race for the title since I honestly don't know when?

Still a long way to go, but if we're 6 points ahead of Liverpool after Anfield then I'll really start talking up our chances.
 
I’m almost certain we will go for 0-0. I think we can get it.

Was always Mourinho's default setting when going to Anfield and he got two of them. I think it will be a draw actually as can't see Liverpool keeping clean sheet with what they have in back 4 so think you'll score at least once.

One thing I would caution abut Man United though....when was the last time a team won the premier league conceding 50 + goals in the season? Chelsea did that last year and finished just about in top 4.

Currenly with 24 conceded from first 16 games you're on course for that. Mind you I remember in last Fergie season you had loads of high scoring games and defence wasn't your strong point that year so perhaps it can be done.
 
It could be the first legitimate three way race for the title since I honestly don't know when?

Still a long way to go, but if we're 6 points ahead of Liverpool after Anfield then I'll really start talking up our chances.

13/14. Perhaps Leicester aswell although Arsenal and Man. City both fell away from March onwards.
 
We are only really at the mid-late November stage of a normal season.

I'll think we are in a title race if we are still well placed after the halfway point.

Liverpool and City still huge faves as reflected in the odds.
 
I dont think we struggle that much v top sides. Theres a myth going around that we struggle v low blocks so if you take the Spurs game as the freak it was, every top side has set up defensivley against us and we are never in real danger of losing.
That plays into our hands from now, surely to Christ Pep etc cant park the bus at home against us so lets see how they cope.
Either Liverpool run away with it or crumble imo. Your success was built on belief and work ethic. If that goes then it all goes, i cant see how you win the title with this middle of the road approach.
Would have agreed with the bolded if we were talking about last season, in fact we were fantastic against top teams. But this season we've struggled against top teams and it all started after that massive Leipzeig victory. Ever since then we've failed to deliver in every single game against top teams.

We've actually become opposite of last season. We're now beating the smaller teams whole struggling against the big ones. We've only gotten 2 points out of 12 playing against Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Tottenham, and all these games have been at home. That's very poor.

The good news is that there are more smaller teams than top teams which means we've accumulated loads of points and other top teams are failing to beat the smaller ones as consistently as we're currently doing.

If we could manage even half the victories we pulled off last season against top teams in this current campaign then things will look even rosier. We have to start delivering against top teams again.
 
Would have agreed with the bolded if we were talking about last season, in fact we were fantastic against top teams. But this season we've struggled against top teams and it all started after that massive Leipzeig victory. Ever since then we've failed to deliver in every single game against top teams.

We've actually become opposite of last season. We're now beating the smaller teams whole struggling against the big ones. We've only gotten 2 points out of 12 playing against Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Tottenham, and all these games have been at home. That's very poor.

The good news is that there are more smaller teams than top teams which means we've accumulated loads of points and other top teams are failing to beat the smaller ones as consistently as we're currently doing.

If we could manage even half the victories we pulled off last season against top teams in this current campaign then things will look even rosier. We have to start delivering against top teams again.
If Spurs are an outlier, we havent lost against any of the top 10?
Nobody is consistently winning the top games this season. Are the likes of Southmapton, Villa etc not top teams this year?
 
If Spurs are an outlier, we havent lost against any of the top 10?
Nobody is consistently winning the top games this season. Are the likes of Southmapton, Villa etc not top teams this year?
I'm talking about the traditional top teams. Not teams that currently reside in the top 10. There is always a saying that regardless of form or league position when top teams come up against one another, it's always a different proposition.

This season we've simply been poor against top teams, especially ever since that massive win against Leipzeig.

After that game we lost to PSG, Leipzeig, in the league we lost to Arsenal, put in meek performances against Chelsea and City at home. Then there is the Tottenham game before that.

2 points from 12 at home against all of Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Tottenham is simply poor and it's imperative to improve in the second half of the season.
 
Leicester would be classed as big team now after last 5 years.

Won the league, reached CL quarters in 16/17 which was further than Man. City and Spurs that year and finished top 6 last season and probably this year well so very consistant period for them as most thought they'd just drop right back down into bottom half after the shock title.
 
I'm talking about the traditional top teams. Not teams that currently reside in the top 10. There is always a saying that regardless of form or league position when top teams come up against one another, it's always a different proposition.

This season we've simply been poor against top teams, especially ever since that massive win against Leipzeig.

After that game we lost to PSG, Leipzeig, in the league we lost to Arsenal, put in meek performances against Chelsea and City at home. Then there is the Tottenham game before that.

2 points from 12 at home against all of Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Tottenham is simply poor and it's imperative to improve in the second half of the season.
Who cares about tradional top teams? Beating this Villa side is a bigger accomplishment than beating Chelsea or Arsenal and every top game is a damp squib anyway. Over half of the 0-0 have come from top 6 games this season.
You would think we had a losing record against top sides the way some fans were talking.
 
The one thing we have struggled to do this season is win against top 6 teams.

In a season like this, those points are going to be crucial. The table is so tight that winning against your rivals can put you in a brilliant position.

We need to do better against Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Leicester in the second half of the season.

Especially Arsenal, it seems we cannot beat them in the league anymore.
 
IMO, City are favorites due to their depth. So many players are already jaded physically, teams are going to be running on fumes by the spring given the relentless fixture schedule. Liverpool is a prime example of this. It was obvious yesterday that half their team had tired legs.

I also think its possible that we see a winner around 80 points or even less. Some club could hit form and get into the mid-high 80s but it also might just be a war of attrition with everybody dropping points regularly to the end since their players are all exhausted.
 
They do lower odds based on bets placed. Trying to place a bet on a horse before the odss come in is a skill in itself.
That's not because of bet volumes or amounts. That is a margin increase strategy. Odds are always better days before the event and start shrinking the closer to the event it goes. It is a marketing play. Having the best odds is a reason to choose one bookie over another. But when the event comes and is about to start, they push the low odds because at that point the majority of punters are pre-existing customers.
 
Depth wise I think we're good. Us, Chelsea and City shouldn't have much to complain on that front.
 
I've enjoyed this run we've been on, it's been great. But it's probably wise to temper that enthusiasm with some stats.

Here are our 10 league wins this season... we've won six by the odd goal...

Brighton 2 Man Utd 3
Newcastle 1 Man Utd 4
Everton 1 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 1 West Brom 0
Southampton 2 Man Utd 3

West Ham 1 Man Utd 3
Sheffield United 2 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 6 Leeds 2
Man Utd 1 Wolves 0
Man Utd 2 Aston Villa 1


Here they are again... we've only managed two clean sheets...

Brighton 2 Man Utd 3
Newcastle 1 Man Utd 4
Everton 1 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 1 West Brom 0
Southampton 2 Man Utd 3
West Ham 1 Man Utd 3
Sheffield United 2 Man Utd 3
Man Utd 6 Leeds 2
Man Utd 1 Wolves 0
Man Utd 2 Aston Villa 1

Yes, we're better than we were, and we're in contention at the moment. I still think we need to improve to land the title, especially our defence.
This is where us doing that over the last 28, 29 games? will be useful. It's still consistently winning, despite the difficulties.
 
That's not because of bet volumes or amounts. That is a margin increase strategy. Odds are always better days before the event and start shrinking the closer to the event it goes. It is a marketing play. Having the best odds is a reason to choose one bookie over another. But when the event comes and is about to start, they push the low odds because at that point the majority of punters are pre-existing customers.

Where can I read more on this because this has always been a puzzling topic
 
Who cares? We’re better away for one, and with no fans there isn’t really a home advantage anyway. It’s unlikely fans will be back at all this season.

Yes there are mitigating factors but historically away games at top rivals have always been a free hit (lose them, no worries, make up for them elsewhere). Yes we are better away from home but we'll have to be real good to come away with substantial points in most of these games