Cant see how, Spurs drew today and v Chelsea a few games back?Wow so we're joint 1st with the best form in the league over that period
EPL Title Race 20/21
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Long term form, say over the last 38 league games, suggests Liverpool will end up walking the league, but injuries could hamstring them I guess. I can only see them or City. I don’t think anyone else will even post 75 points.
Top four will be real interesting though. I think Southampton have shown the form for a good year to contend. It will be between Chelsea, United, Spurs and Southampton for the other top four spots. I don’t think Leicester finish ahead of any of them.
Top four will be real interesting though. I think Southampton have shown the form for a good year to contend. It will be between Chelsea, United, Spurs and Southampton for the other top four spots. I don’t think Leicester finish ahead of any of them.
Yeah I don't think the OP reflected today's games, does that mean then we're in the best form of anyone?
It's too early for this thread honestly. We won't get clarity until after New Years.
If we sacked ole now we would have a great chance. We need to get this guy out, this is our best chance since Fergie.
We are still in the mix. Pretty much all we can say at this point. If we were to go on a run of 4-5 wins, we would be in an excellent position.
This backwards logic hurts my head
I would get Pochettino in tomorrow if it was up to me.
As it is, it's Ole at the wheel for the foreseeable future
We’ve had a bad start but we’re still in it because everyone else has too. What’s backwards about that? Ole won’t win us the league. A good manager could. This is a real chance, we can’t let sentiment get in the way.
So frustratingI would get Pochettino in tomorrow if it was up to me.
As it is, it's Ole at the wheel for the foreseeable future
most of these fans don’t have the ambition for a title I swear! They’re happy with their precious Ole fighting for top 4 taking us on a road to nowhere! I hate how sentimental & soft we can be at times. The league is there to be won we need to go out and take it. Ole’s so clearly not the guy.Its too insular. Youre not taking the context of the season into account.
Sack the manager who is nearing having the best record of any English side in 2020, who is a game in hand away from being ahead of City, Chelsea and, depending on the Spurs game midweek, neck and neck with Klopp and Jose.
You arent even giving him a chance to fail.
I would get Pochettino in tomorrow if it was up to me.
As it is, it's Ole at the wheel for the foreseeable future
Yeah because he's a proven winner isn't he
1, Changing a Manager does not guarantee success.
2, Everyone is struggling with the condensed schedule, this isn't new. It happened last season too.
3, We had a bad start and have recovered, got through a relatively tricky run of fixtures and still near the top of the league.
4, At this point last season we were 18 points behind Liverpool, now we're 5 with a game in hand.
5, We've got the highest point per game ratio in the league in results post lockdown.
6, We've got the 2nd highest win rate in the league in 2020.
7, Our fitness levels have improved significantly since Ole came here.
Complain all you like, but we're an effective team right now in the league and we're in the hunt. It's sad that you can't support our Manager and team. You spend every post on the Caf complaining. I just flicked through your posts and couldn't find one positive sentence. Not one.
So frustrating
I get the sentimental part as well, I actually originally voted on the forum for Ole to remain manager, and then when we went out of the Champions League last week I changed it to wanting him out.
It really is head and heart with him.
- The heart wants him to do really well, after all he's a United legend
- The head sees him without the rose-tinted glasses on, and wants him out, especially with Pochettino being available now (no compensation to pay to any club etc)
I think it's clear he will get the rest of the season, and if we finish Top 4 then he'll remain in the job... and then it will be rinse and repeat next season:
A) Underwhelming performances in the Champions League that ultimately mean we fail to reach the latter stages of the competition
B) Happy to get Top 4 in the league
As far as I’m concerned he’s already failed. He fails every time he opens his mouth. He fails when he lines us up to play for 0-0 draws, he fails with his Sunday league manager tactical mistakes.
It’s so frustrating that the majority of our fans can’t see that this guy just isn’t the man. He’s not a United manager, he’s taking us nowhere. How can you not see this? Where is our ambition? The league is open this year. We would have a real real chance if we dropped this guy. Our rivals are desperate for us to keep him. Every time we get a good result the city fans in my WhatsApp group - “at least that keeps ole in the job” I kid you not. One even said yesterday was the “ideal result because we didn’t lose & Ole keeps his job” rival fans love the fact that we’re blinded by sentiment, they love that Ole is our manager because they know that we’re going absolutely nowhere under him.
There’s nothing to be positive about right now. We’ve been shit in practically every game this season. I want a title, I want us to be winners. If you want the same then why are you settling for this? Relying on individual brilliance to paper over horrible performance is not sustainable.1, Changing a Manager does not guarantee success.
2, Everyone is struggling with the condensed schedule, this isn't new. It happened last season too.
3, We had a bad start and have recovered, got through a relatively tricky run of fixtures and still near the top of the league.
4, At this point last season we were 18 points behind Liverpool, now we're 5 with a game in hand.
5, We've got the highest point per game ratio in the league in results post lockdown.
6, We've got the 2nd highest win rate in the league in 2020.
7, Our fitness levels have improved significantly since Ole came here.
Complain all you like, but we're an effective team right now in the league and we're in the hunt. It's sad that you can't support our Manager and team. You spend every post on the Caf complaining. I just flicked through your posts and couldn't find one positive sentence. Not one.
It’s all rinse repeat. You’re exactly right. I wish he was the guy, but he’s just not, he’s so so obviously not & it’s annoying that we’re wasting our time. The fans are so blinded by him too. Honestly man it just makes me tired at this point. I’m so desperate for us to be the best but it’s fighting a losing battle. The board don’t have the ambition for it, and quite frankly, the majority of the fans don’t have the ambition either.I get the sentimental part as well, I actually originally voted on the forum for Ole to remain manager, and then when we went out of the Champions League last week I changed it to wanting him out.
It really is head and heart with him.
- The heart wants him to do really well, after all he's a United legend
- The head sees him without the rose-tinted glasses on, and wants him out, especially with Pochettino being available now (no compensation to pay to any club etc)
I think it's clear he will get the rest of the season, and if we finish Top 4 then he'll remain in the job... and then it will be rinse and repeat next season:
A) Underwhelming performances in the Champions League that ultimately mean we fail to reach the latter stages of the competition
B) Happy to get Top 4 in the league
You've got a bit of an issue with Ole mate.
I think he’s a bad manager. Nothing personal. Seems a nice guy.
I want my club to win the title.
Thread started off interesting and then quickly went to Ole bashing. Welcome to Redcafe everyone
same posters as always as well
We are 5 points off top with a game in hand, thats positive right?
You ignore point 4, 5 and 6 in my list. We've been one of the best clubs in the league for 11 months and have the best points per game total since lockdown ended. That suggests to me that we're actually on the right track with Ole. Our players are motivated, they're performing and we've been on a consistent run. That's positive right?
It wasn't long ago that this forum moaned about us struggling to beat low block teams, we've fixed that issue. That's positive right?
We finally have a world class player in Bruno, been a while since we had one of those in the outfield. That's a positive yeah?
Beat Everton in the EFL Cup and we're in the Semis again. That'd be Ole 4th Semi's in a row, thats another positive yeah?
Fact we're not 18 points behind the league leaders is also a pretty decent feeling.
Ole is living rent free in their heads. Hopefully we keep improving our league form and the agenda posters keep getting rattled.
I don't think we're good enough to win it given we're both a bit shit in defence and a bit shit in attack and generally don't do anything well.
However the feint hope I have that we could pull it off may be that
1. Our large squad and rotation may pay off in the 2nd half of the season as other teams are fatigued and we're a little fresher
2. We replicate the turnaround we saw in the 2nd half of last season whereby we look unrecognisable from the team in the 1st half of the season.
3. We make a signing in January that has an impact a la Bruno (obviously very unlikely)
It's frustrating because if we actually looked like a competent football team then it would be there for us, the points total to win the league this year will be very low compared to previous years. Also if we had Martial/Rashford/Greenwood in the same form they were in last year then we'd be very optimistic.
However the feint hope I have that we could pull it off may be that
1. Our large squad and rotation may pay off in the 2nd half of the season as other teams are fatigued and we're a little fresher
2. We replicate the turnaround we saw in the 2nd half of last season whereby we look unrecognisable from the team in the 1st half of the season.
3. We make a signing in January that has an impact a la Bruno (obviously very unlikely)
It's frustrating because if we actually looked like a competent football team then it would be there for us, the points total to win the league this year will be very low compared to previous years. Also if we had Martial/Rashford/Greenwood in the same form they were in last year then we'd be very optimistic.
Draw with the best, beat the rest.
That'll win you the league this season.
That'll win you the league this season.
Those wins against Everton and Southampton may turn out to be massive for our season
Yeah because he's a proven winner isn't he
Pochettino might not be a proven winner, but I feel the best we will ever do with Ole is finish in the Top 4 of the league, to qualify for a competition that we have been underwhelming in since Fergie left.
It's my opinion that Pochettino is a level above Ole as a manager, and I want the best for United.
As it currently stands Pochettino is the best available manager there is, and the opportunity to get him in might not come up again.
And therein lies the problem, looking at the short term rather than the bigger picture. Is the right thing not to wait until the right man comes along rather than just get the best of who's available? Who knows what the managerial options may look like in the summer
Its also rather ironic you say the best we can do under Ole is finish in the top 4 when that's the height of Poch's success in the league as well
Looks like the Mourinho way might work this time and Ole is using it.
Yeah it’s your opinion. But the truth is not that simple, a new manager taking the job in mid season ain’t win the league because he will need time to know the squad and implement his system first.
On top of that, he can’t even win the league against Leicester and Chelsea when he had Kane, Dembele, prime Alli, Eriksen, Son, Vertonghen, Aldeweireld, Lloris and two best pair full backs in the league at that time. What chances he had with our players against Liverpool even without VVD who are still miles better than Leicester & Chelsea were? Let’s be honest, Kane, Dembele, their back four and even Eriksen at that time would have been upgrade in our XI. He had better XI at that time.
Honestly I want nothing more than Ole to be the right person to take us forward and challenge for the Premier League, and turn semi-finals into finals.
I just think he is out of his depth - with tactics, substitutions, and an over reliance to commit to De Gea even though every man and his dog can see he is past his best (he's not saved a penalty in the league for over 6 years - abysmal).
Maybe it is right to wait until the Summer, and assess the situation then. I just think there's times where Ole is cowardice - Chelsea were there for the taking, and we saw out a 0-0, same with City, they were there for the taking and we were happy to settle for a 0-0
Look at us in Europe last week, starting with 5 defenders. Come on that's not what Utd are about. It's cowardice from Ole, and ultimately we lost the match and out of the Champions League we went.
Q) What other manager of a top club sits on the bench throughout the whole match - he's not inspiring the team, heck how can he be motivating the players when he can't motivate himself to go to the technical area?
A) None
I've seen enough of Pochettino at Southampton and Tottenham to be able to form an opinion that he is better than Ole in the following areas:
- Tactics
- Substitutions
- Motivation
Is that enough to take United to the next level (challenging for the Premier League, making finals of competitions, and progressing to the latter stages of the Champions League)?
...Yes I believe it is.
Latest update showed that our form is the best!!
We're going to win the league.
Get in!!!
- United - WWWWD
- West Ham - WWWLW
- Spurs - WWDWD
- Pool - DWDWD
We're going to win the league.
Get in!!!Pep? Is that you?
We are still in it because Ole is in charge also. And because we are still one of the most, if not the most consistent side pt wise in the league over the last 25 games, so that tells us that over the next 27 games, we have a chance to be the most consistent team as well. With Ole in charge.
The last 5 is useless but our form becomes interesting over the last 25+ games or so. Anyway confidence is a big deal and Dec could help us win more while the others have to lose pts due to having to play each others. Let the boys focus on winning those games and we will see how far from the top we are, and that will give us an idea of our chances in Jan.Latest update showed that our form is the best!!
We also have a game in hand.
- United - WWWWD
- West Ham - WWWLW
- Spurs - WWDWD
- Pool - DWDWD
We're going to win the league.
I was so full of hope reading this thread until the fecking negativity cartwheeled in. Wish to feck it would cartwheel out again.
Think its time to start using the ignore function again.
Think its time to start using the ignore function again.
Very sure it doesn't work that way.
Yeah if a nuclear war happens in London it kills the momentum but otherwise, the consistency is measured by a sample of performance and we project where this could lead. As of now, we are the most or the 2nd most performing team in the league pts wise. That should give us confidence.
You know what, it's a fair enough point, and I understand a new manager would take time to bed in... so replacing Ole now could be disruptive (and we are 2 points off the top - provided we win our game in hand).
The players you've mentioned there were top drawer to be honest (on paper at least). Who knows what factors were at play for Tottenham? Could it have been the mentality of the club, in that they don't win trophies? Maybe, maybe not.
Anyway enough of guessing what factors were at play, lets explore some of the facts that were actually at play with those Leicester and Chelsea sides...
Leicester 2015/2016
- could be backed at 5,000/1 at the start of the season to win the league
- during the campaign Jamie Vardy scored in a record breaking 11 consecutive league games to break Van Nistelrooy's record of scoring in 10 consecutive league games
Chelsea 2016/2017
- Had a spine of Courtois, Cahill, Fabregas, Hazard, and Costa (the same spine that won them the league in 2014/2015)
Verdict
Pochettino was up against it with Leicester in 2015/2016. Based on the odds of 5,000/1 for Leicester to win the league, Leicester's win can only be described as an absolute anomaly - the likes of which a team with odds that high will very unlikely ever win the league again.
Not only that, but look at Jamie Vardy for Leicester that season compared to Harry Kane for Tottenham...
Vardy: 24 goals in 19 different league games, and 6 assists
Kane: 25 goals in 17 different league games, and 1 assist
A phenomenal season by Kane, but an even better one (team wise) by Vardy.
The Chelsea side of 2016/2017 was full of Premier League winners, they had been there and done it before, and crucially they had the same spine as when they won it in 2014/2015.
In 2016/2017 Tottenham finished 2nd in the league with 86 points and lost the fewest amount of games (4)
To brush those Leicester and Chelsea sides off like they were cannon fodder is way off the mark. Leicester had a goal and assists machine in the team, and the Chelsea side were full of past winners.
You say that the current Liverpool side without Van Dijk are still 'miles better than Leicester and Chelsea were'
I completely disagree with you on that. Those title winning sides were very, very, good teams.
Pochettino did very well to have challenged for the league in those seasons, and deserves a lot more credit than people give him.
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