Enzo Fernández | signs for Chelsea

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SAF is the GOAT said:
Just wondered to myself if Mayorga was the one who brought Alejandro and Alavro to united ?

Any suggestions what was so complicated for woodward and Judge in this deal with Caicedo ? Especially when Brighton completed it fairly quick.

Also - do you think that we can do these types of cheap but with potential acquisitions when we all know our current financial situation (that sadly isn't going to change dramatically in the near future) ?
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Yeah like @Adnan said, our negotiators apparantly "had trouble defining who was actually mandated to act on behalf of caicedo" according to the Athletic. Said it before but it's pretty pathetic that little Brighton Hove Albion can trump the sporting institution Man United in that respect. Have a feeling some at the top previously were turning their nose up and carrying an old fashioned and somewhat air of pomposity when it comes to transfers.

For all the scouting revamps we've heard about like woodward using headhunters to hire his scouting line up, we have rarely signed any south american/african or otherwise farther flung player from those emerging markets. City with their multiple feeder clubs, Chelsea and now Arsenal with Edu are all already at it, even liverpool are exploring and were in for that ghanaian talent Abdul Issahaku before he signed for Sporting. (we are apparantly monitoring him now too recently linked now he is breaking through a bit)

I do think we should always have a good english core with some of the best british talent possible, but Liverpool and City both showing recently with their squads filled with worldwide players from senegal, egypt, brazil, argentina, it's about targeting quality wherever they are from and with how inflated the british market is for overrated talents it is mindboggling that players such as Enzo Fernandez, Alvarez, Caicedo and the like were not immeadiately tapped up and jumped on. Just think, Declan rice being qouted at over £100m whilst fernandez was what 15m incl add-ons? (sidenote, Rice looks stuck at WH now unless we buy him, can't see potter and chelsea new european scouting setup going for him at a high price)

Thankfully the conveyor belt in those other countries will not stop and now we seem better staffed to take a punt on other interesting talents, like Andre Trindade & Danilo in brazil currently two 21y/o's who are looking like great CMs being eyed up by european clubs.
 
I’d be delighted with him as a signing. Wasn’t sure how he’d cope moving over but he’s settled well and performed excellently recently too.

All for it.
 
Fabrizio Romano thinks Benfica will want over a €100m for Enzo Fernandez. With both Real Madrid and Liverpool in the running for him.

I personally think he'll be a perfect Toni Kroos replacement for Real Madrid.
 
Why are real Madrid still chasing young midfielders? They have three top class young ones already.
 
B20 said:
Why are real Madrid still chasing young midfielders? They have three top class young ones already.
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Because Kroos might retire and none of those midfielders can play his role, unless Camavinga joins Tchouaméni but even in that case they seem to be profiles that might clash.
 
Would be a shame if he ends up at Real or Barca. Would love to watch him in the PL.
 
I so wish we got him.

Varane Lisandro
Casemiro Enzo
Bruno.

What a middle of defense and midfield that would be.

The last time I wanted a player for United this much was Rooney.
 
Adnan said:
Fabrizio Romano thinks Benfica will want over a €100m for Enzo Fernandez. With both Real Madrid and Liverpool in the running for him.

I personally think he'll be a perfect Toni Kroos replacement for Real Madrid.
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I havent watched enzo too much apart from the WC... is he a kross-like player in that he is an awesome short and long range passer and able to set the timing of the game? Or a different kind of player?
 
It's so frustrating that we could have signed Gvardiol, Fernandez and Alvarez for £120m a year ago and they were all on our radar and now each of them are unobtainable.
 
I feel bad for Enzo yesterday, last kick of the game where Lautaro Martinez is leaning back and nearly heads it to the corner flag not the net, he he jumped but didn't head the ball Enzo was jogging into the box, could have controlled it and placed it in the net.

No defenders in sight, Lloris wouldn't have stood a chance.

I really hope United go for Enzo, he's very good for a 21 year old. Positionally, maturity, him or Bellingham for me I'd be happy with either.
 
I hope United is really after him. I think having Licha at UTD is a big factor to attract him.

To everyone against the RM move, he already said he would like to play PL football.
 
DrRodo said:
I havent watched enzo too much apart from the WC... is he a kross-like player in that he is an awesome short and long range passer and able to set the timing of the game? Or a different kind of player?
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He's definitely a Toni Kroos type midfielder and would potentially fit in well in a midfield with Camavinga and Tchouameni.

I think we (United) need a Modric like midfielder more than a Kroos imo. I think Eriksen can replicate some of what a Enzo Fernandez can potentially give us but we don't have a Modric like midfielder who would provide the class and guile on the ball as well the ability to carry the ball through the lines.

We should be careful and not draw too much conclusions from a cup competition like the world cup, because teams are setup differently to what will be expected from a midfielder in a ten Hag team, over a long season in the Premier league over a long stretch of games, where pressing high and counter pressing will be something we'll need to navigate effectively if we're to be competitive.

And I think a midfield 3, of Casemiro, Enzo, Eriksen/Bruno isn't very press resistant and that could cause us problems against teams who are adept at pressing high and cutting off passing angles. None of our midfielders has the ability to carry the ball at a high level.

And imo it would be a much bigger risk for us to sign Enzo Fernandez due to the players we already have in the first 11 and the huge fee Benfica will likely demand, and a risk worth taking for someone like a Real Madrid who already have midfielders with a varied skilset.

I think someone like Frenkie de Jong is a better fit stylistically and it would make Eriksen even more dangerous in the deeper phases of play due to the opposition having one eye on de Jong's ability to break defensive lines with his dribbling, which would free Eriksen up a little bit more.
 
Adnan said:
He's definitely a Toni Kroos type midfielder and would potentially fit in well in a midfield with Camavinga and Tchouameni.

I think we (United) need a Modric like midfielder more than a Kroos imo. I think Eriksen can replicate some of what a Enzo Fernandez can potentially give us but we don't have a Modric like midfielder who would provide the class and guile on the ball as well the ability to carry the ball through the lines.

We should be careful and not draw too much conclusions from a cup competition like the world cup, because teams are setup differently to what will be expected from a midfielder in a ten Hag team, over a long season in the Premier league over a long stretch of games, where pressing high and counter pressing will be something we'll need to navigate effectively if we're to be competitive.

And I think a midfield 3, of Casemiro, Enzo, Eriksen/Bruno isn't very press resistant and that could cause us problems against teams who are adept at pressing high and cutting off passing angles. None of our midfielders has the ability to carry the ball at a high level.

And imo it would be a much bigger risk for us to sign Enzo Fernandez due to the players we already have in the first 11 and the huge fee Benfica will likely demand, and a risk worth taking for someone like a Real Madrid who already have midfielders with a varied skilset.

I think someone like Frenkie de Jong is a better fit stylistically and it would make Eriksen even more dangerous in the deeper phases of play due to the opposition having one eye on de Jong's ability to break defensive lines with his dribbling, which would free Eriksen up a little bit more.
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Enzo looks like prime Jordan Henderson imo in term of both technical ability and tenacity/aggression/physical attribute. You're right Enzo is not press resistant from what I watched, which is the opposite of Frenkie's main asset being press resistant.

Despite Frenkie was never known being a leader, but we have Casemiro in midfield who is a leader which is perfect for Frenkie. Frenkie and Casemiro do seem to be much better and more balanced partnership than Enzo and Casemiro.
 
He had a great tournament, but let's not get carried away, he still got the rest of the season with Benfica, if he maintains the same level, then he will probably move to a top club (RM, Barca, EPL, etc...)

However, I think he has huge potential.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
He had a great tournament, but let's not get carried away, he still got the rest of the season with Benfica, if he maintains the same level, then he will probably move to a top club (RM, Barca, EPL, etc...)

However, I think he has huge potential.
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Everyone was talking about him way before the tournament. Tournament just confirmed he can do it on the biggest stage.
 
Adnan said:
I think we (United) need a Modric like midfielder more than a Kroos imo. I think Eriksen can replicate some of what a Enzo Fernandez can potentially give us but we don't have a Modric like midfielder who would provide the class and guile on the ball as well the ability to carry the ball through the lines.

We should be careful and not draw too much conclusions from a cup competition like the world cup, because teams are setup differently to what will be expected from a midfielder in a ten Hag team, over a long season in the Premier league over a long stretch of games, where pressing high and counter pressing will be something we'll need to navigate effectively if we're to be competitive.
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Agree.

Tbh if based on the WC alone I'd prefer Mc Allister over Enzo.

Guy was so class at anti pressing and carrying the ball through the lines. Huge energy, great passing rate too. Very solid defensively. In fact he looked more Modric than Modric himself in the Argentina vs Croatia match. Imo one of the best Argentinian players at this WC. And he's also only 23 yo.

If he plays for a foreign team the hype would be massive imo. But he's playing for Brighton atm so none fancy him I guess. And that's exactly why buying a player because of his performance in a short tournament like WC is sometime not a very good idea.
 
Black Alabaster said:
Just think, Declan rice being qouted at over £100m whilst fernandez was what 15m incl add-ons? (sidenote, Rice looks stuck at WH now unless we buy him, can't see potter and chelsea new european scouting setup going for him at a high price)
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I think Newcastle will buy a couple players like this, and he is better than Longstaff, so like 70M for him next summer with a year to go might suit everyone okay.
 
Strelok said:
Agree.

Tbh if based on the WC alone I'd prefer Mc Allister over Enzo.

Guy was so class at anti pressing and carrying the ball through the lines. Huge energy, great passing rate too. Very solid defensively. In fact he looked more Modric than Modric himself in the Argentina vs Croatia match. Imo one of the best Argentinian players at this WC. And he's also only 23 yo.

If he plays for a foreign team the hype would be massive imo. But he's playing for Brighton atm so none fancy him I guess. And that's exactly why buying a player because of his performance in a short tournament like WC is sometime not a very good idea.
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I posted a few times about us signing him early in the year because he's one of the few Prem players who can sit deep in midfield and hit passes forward well, and we've seen how when Eriksen is healthy and rested we can transition to attack and without him we just can't, but I think Enzo has more hype because he's a little bit better physically, so you can see him playing in a double pivot in CL knockout games a bit easier than Mac Allister, who might only be able to thrive at that level in a 3.
 
SAF is the GOAT said:
Just wondered to myself if Mayorga was the one who brought Alejandro and Alavro to united ?

Any suggestions what was so complicated for woodward and Judge in this deal with Caicedo ? Especially when Brighton completed it fairly quick.

Also - do you think that we can do these types of cheap but with potential acquisitions when we all know our current financial situation (that sadly isn't going to change dramatically in the near future) ?
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He was owned by multiple parties, United don’t get involved in those types. I think they’ve been burnt before
 
mav_9me said:
Everyone was talking about him way before the tournament. Tournament just confirmed he can do it on the biggest stage.
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James Rodriguez was also amazing with Porto & Monaco, and then had a brilliant WC in 2014.

I am not doubting his potential, I actually think he will become world class, however, he is only 22, hence why I said not to get carried away, he still has a lot to do.
 
I'd prefer Macallister, he looked like one of Argentina's best throughout the tournament.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
James Rodriguez was also amazing with Porto & Monaco, and then had a brilliant WC in 2014.

I am not doubting his potential, I actually think he will become world class, however, he is only 22, hence why I said not to get carried away, he still has a lot to do.
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It was completely different though.

I remember that WC and I had friends raving to me about him "how haven't United signed him, it's so obvious" and I always felt wait until after the WC and see, and obviously it was downhill from there.

Madrid bit the bullet on him but it never quite worked out.

International is very different to domestic football, with Enzo he's won the young player of the tournament.

Look at it this way, the kids 21 he's moved from Argentina to Benfica, first year in Benfica he's gone on to be a great performer there.

He's come into the WC, locked down the midfield in a Copa America winning side who by the way only made his first senior appearance on 24th September.

Moved countries, just got into the NT, locks down a position, wins the young player of the tournament and wins the WC.







The kid comes into the NT in September, is the key figure in the midfield, makes the most passes, interceptions has a hell of an engine... produces key passes in the finals.

He even got forward for the last minute of ET but if Lautaro let it go he would have been in acres, no defenders, Lloris the other side of the net tap in wouldn't have gone to pens.

Him and Jude are worth scrapping for United needs to get at least one.

10 senior appearances for Argentina, made himself a starter and has been out of this world for them honestly. Full credit to him.
 
TheNewEra said:
It was completely different though.

I remember that WC and I had friends raving to me about him "how haven't United signed him, it's so obvious" and I always felt wait until after the WC and see, and obviously it was downhill from there.

Madrid bit the bullet on him but it never quite worked out.

International is very different to domestic football, with Enzo he's won the young player of the tournament.

Look at it this way, the kids 21 he's moved from Argentina to Benfica, first year in Benfica he's gone on to be a great performer there.

He's come into the WC, locked down the midfield in a Copa America winning side who by the way only made his first senior appearance on 24th September.

Moved countries, just got into the NT, locks down a position, wins the young player of the tournament and wins the WC.







The kid comes into the NT in September, is the key figure in the midfield, makes the most passes, interceptions has a hell of an engine... produces key passes in the finals.

He even got forward for the last minute of ET but if Lautaro let it go he would have been in acres, no defenders, Lloris the other side of the net tap in wouldn't have gone to pens.

Him and Jude are worth scrapping for United needs to get at least one.

10 senior appearances for Argentina, made himself a starter and has been out of this world for them honestly. Full credit to him.
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I agree with your assessment of Enzo's meteoric rise with his NT which culminated in a great individual performances that got him the best young player award, coupled with a WC win, and that by itself is amazing and at the very least an indicator of his huge potential, but again, all I am saying is, let's just not get carried away with him, I am not against getting him now for example, my issue is, with how he performed in this WC, Benfica will surely demand a minimum of 100M if not more, and I think it is still too early to pay such fee for him.
 
how can anyone actually doubt this kid, his ability, his engine and the impact he has on match after watching him throughout this tournament and the WC Final???

Put that kid next to Casemiro and our team is massively different...he'd be the rock of our midfield for the next 6-8 years.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
James Rodriguez was also amazing with Porto & Monaco, and then had a brilliant WC in 2014.

I am not doubting his potential, I actually think he will become world class, however, he is only 22, hence why I said not to get carried away, he still has a lot to do.
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James Rodriguez got the plaudits because he scored some brilliant goals, but he was an attacking midfielder. Enzo Fernandez has received all the plaudits because he just dominated games from midfield with his ability. It's much more repeatable and he showed qualities that every team needs, with his technique, passing, press resistance and off the ball aggressiveness defensively.
 
Next summer is going to be a crazy midfield market:

Bellingham, Fernandez, and Rice are likely to be the headliners.

But then next tier players like Caicedo, Mac Allister, Neves, Bennacer, Musah, Kudus, Amrabat, and Locatelli may also move.

And players like Tielemans, Laimer, Jorginho, Gundogan, Aouar, and Rabiot will all be moving on frees.
 
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bosnian_red said:
James Rodriguez got the plaudits because he scored some brilliant goals, but he was an attacking midfielder. Enzo Fernandez has received all the plaudits because he just dominated games from midfield with his ability. It's much more repeatable and he showed qualities that every team needs, with his technique, passing, press resistance and off the ball aggressiveness defensively.
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Agreed with this.

What he showed wasn’t about moments it was consistent high performance that’s a continuation of his work at club level.
 
Powderfinger said:
Next summer is going to be a crazy midfield market:

Bellingham, Fernandez, and Rice are likely to be the headliners.

But then next tier players like Caicedo, Mac Allister, Neves, Bennacer, Musah, Kudus, Amrabat, and Locatelli may also move.

And players like Tielemans, Laimer, Jorginho, Gundogan, Aouar, and Rabiot will all be moving on frees.
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Agree, there is likely to be a lot of big name midfielders on the move next summer. With United's preferred midfield painting (Casemiro and Eriksen) both 30, we will be looking for back up / replacements over the coming years, although it is interesting that we have extended Fred for another year. Who should we be going for from that list, two players, three, four? Personally, I like Enzo Fernandez and Caicedo, and amongst the freebies Laimer and Rabiot. Is there anyone else not there we should be looking at? FDJ is the obvious one, although not sure he is available?
 
3KDré said:
It's so frustrating that we could have signed Gvardiol, Fernandez and Alvarez for £120m a year ago and they were all on our radar and now each of them are unobtainable.
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But Rangnick was the worst thing that ever happened to United
 
Strootman's Finger said:
But Rangnick was the worst thing that ever happened to United
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Funny enough he was the one who pushed and brought Fernandez and Alvarez to our attention. He wanted Alvarez before City jumped in and we were one of the main teams interested in Enzo but the club didn't want to sanction any funds for him in January.

Now both would command closer to 100m.
 
Strootman's Finger said:
But Rangnick was the worst thing that ever happened to United
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There is a reason that Rangnick was in a director of football type role in his recent jobs. He is pretty good at spotting talent and bringing it on board. He just wasn't a good manager. That's why it is a shame he didn't work with ETH, as I think that could have been a really good team. At Ajax, Overmars found the players, and we were never going to hire him, so Rangnick / ETH could have been a dream ticket. Now we are relying on ETH's knowledge of the Dutch league to source all our targets.
 
Erik the Red said:
There is a reason that Rangnick was in a director of football type role in his recent jobs. He is pretty good at spotting talent and bringing it on board. He just wasn't a good manager. That's why it is a shame he didn't work with ETH, as I think that could have been a really good team. At Ajax, Overmars found the players, and we were never going to hire him, so Rangnick / ETH could have been a dream ticket. Now we are relying on ETH's knowledge of the Dutch league to source all our targets.
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At Ajax, Henk Veldmate found/identified the players and not Overmars.

Rangnick also never found/identified the players at the clubs he was DoF at because they had people like Christian Mockel heading the scouting and hence identifying the players to sign. You're confusing the role of the DoF with the role of the head of recruitment.

Enzo Fernandez was also not recommended by Rangnick either.
 
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