Found this quite funny.
English people who want England to fail
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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Found this quite funny.
Bingo. The difference is a lot of the English think fondly of their world dominance through the empire still, which will obviously be a problem for everyone else.
The English/British imperialists are considered "the most evil people that have walked the surface of this world"..Genocidal Britain == Jeffrey Dahmer, ..
This is so not only because of their numerous genocides across the world (North America, Africa, Australia, India, Ireland) but also because of the huge numbers of the most shameless genocide apologists/genocide deniers they have right now.
Almost too many to mention. Killed or starved about 20% of Irish. "Inventor" of Concentration camps in Board War. Massive atrocities in India. Treatment of American soldiers and civilians in War for Independence. Many many more.
The mongals may have killed a lot of people in a short time, but the death toll for Britian during its enitre span is far greater.
The English have been murdering/torturing/starving Irish people since Oliver Cromwell to the 1798 Irish rebellion to the Great Famine aka Great Genocide to the Black&Tans to Dublin Monaghan bombings to killing civilians in Derry (google all of it).
They have murdered to extinction countless millions of Native Americans and indigenous Australians.
They have murdered/starved/tortured tens of millions of Indians from 1757 to 1947.
Also google Opium Wars, Batang Kali, Boer concentration camps etc.
Enfland also resorted to the use of concentration camps to defeat South Africa’s Boer population at the turn of the 20th century. 10% of the entire Boer population were killed in these camps, including 22,000 children, who were starved and beaten to death.
One England's most ruthless conquests, however, came in the 1800s, when Engl7shish colonists annihilated Tasmania’s indigenous population. They forced aborigine wives to carry the heads of their dead husbands around their necks.
Nokillingmoths "found this quite funny"
You find centuries of brutal English racist violence funny. The mass murder to the brink of extinction countless millions of Native Americans and indigenous Australians.
Really ?
Maybe you need to think about what is ideogically shaping your sense of humour.
P.s You can know your history and still support England. Learning one's history is the best way of making sure it is not repeated. If some of the thug tries who give England fans a bad name were actually taught the truth about the empire when they were school children then perhaps they wouldn't be so prone to aggressively acting out their desire for the return of English violent domination of the world.
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I think people who bring past empires and wars into football for a reason to dislike a nation's football team are just searching for a place to direct their hate. If you go back through the years you'll be hard pressed to find a country that hasn't committed horrible actions. Especially when you're talking about the "bigger" countries. But I don't have much of a problem with that because there always has to be a villain, and England I suppose is an easy target there considering in our history we've pretty much fought everyone?
But when you're villainizing your own country for things like "booing other peoples national anthems", have a word with yourself. Go listen to the Italian Leagues and their monkey chants. Or even English fans being too arrogant (which we aren't it's mostly sarcastic), what about the French? They thought they were going to walk to the end of this tournament. Honestly you can go on and on but the spotlight always falls on England.
But when you're villainizing your own country for things like "booing other peoples national anthems", have a word with yourself. Go listen to the Italian Leagues and their monkey chants. Or even English fans being too arrogant (which we aren't it's mostly sarcastic), what about the French? They thought they were going to walk to the end of this tournament. Honestly you can go on and on but the spotlight always falls on England.
Preach!
1)every single country has to deal with this. Get a grip. Like saying Real and Barca fans can't support Spain or Milan/Juve/Inter/Roma fans cannot support Italy.
2)True
3) Not as bad as Italy or Spanish media. I'm sure the French are the same.
4) just watch games with your mates
well obviously none of us are history majors so most likely only know in depth our own countries history so just google it
UK usually makes top 2 in most lists
https://www.thetoptens.com/brutal-empires-history/
https://discover.hubpages.com/education/10-Most-Evil-Empires-in-History
You do have an idea of the length, breadth and depth of British genocide, thievery, subjugation, and systematic, ingenious methods of oppression - that are still in place to this day, and have the colonised fighting amongst themselves (divide and conquer) - administered expertly over literal centuries?
England/Britain get a lot of flack for the atrocities committed across continents because, well, they were the best at it - surely, it can be seen for what it is and why it'll never not be a talking point or buried when discussions like this come around?
Some people can divorce themselves from this past, or tell others to get over it or stop bringing it up, but others never will. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to how it's moved on from, but it is an intrinsic link for some when England and the jingoism of some layers of its support are in the spotlight.
Rightly or wrongly 'normal folk' who just want to support their nation with a clean slate get dragged into the associative link to the bell-ends bellowing 2 world wars or god save the queen and meaning every word of it who don't ever want the past to be forgotten.
These threads will always have a segue where the past is brought up because it's very much current for a lot of people.
Stuff like this doesn’t help…
Weird thread 
It’s not really. England is a pretty divided country at the present. Of course that’s also going to manifest itself in areas like sports.Weird thread
I didn't meant the topic, but the replies
I actually am a history major.Preach!
1)every single country has to deal with this. Get a grip. Like saying Real and Barca fans can't support Spain or Milan/Juve/Inter/Roma fans cannot support Italy.
2)True
3) Not as bad as Italy or Spanish media. I'm sure the French are the same.
4) just watch games with your mates
well obviously none of us are history majors so most likely only know in depth our own countries history so just google it
UK usually makes top 2 in most lists
https://www.thetoptens.com/brutal-empires-history/
https://discover.hubpages.com/education/10-Most-Evil-Empires-in-History
@Fortitude @devilrua thanks for the lesson, but it’s not necessary, I’m aware and quite updated on all of it.
In my humble opinion though, premeditation and the actual goal of the acts commited during Holocaust is worse than anything for me, personally.
Just because you disagree don’t make it so. This bizarre trend of understanding history on today’s societal and cultural premisses are quite frankly counter-factual in essence, but never mind that. You’ve all the right to hold your own opinions.
Now, back on topic. Go England! (The football team, that is)
The bolded is interesting. So would you say you're displaying cognitive dissonance with that, or is it how you see things, taking in a full evaluation of what and how it was done? If I posted a play by play of the atrocities in full and graphic detail, I'd rightly be banned from the site.
Anyway, I'm not going to belabour this point or topic, suffice it to say what Ingerlund and all that comes with it elicits in some folks shouldn't be summarily dismissed, if of course, you care for that perspective.
The problem for England is they are rarely assessed purely as a football team - the caveats for the hate are many and varied and I think more of it [hate] is to do with everything but the team rather than anything we see in actual games.
I did say it was my personal opinion, I don’t get why you would invoke cognitive dissonance, there isn’t any. I’ll explain why, what we are discussing i.e. which is worse is purely academical, there isn’t an answer other than the subjective one you choose to believe.
No, not dismissed, but refering back to the subjective mind, it’s hardly a valuable discussion worth having in this here particular thread or topic, don’t you agree? I never disagreed with the notion about the British Empire being an evil construct which laid a lot of the world’s population low. Coming in here in the dramatic absolute way that original poster did, well it just irks me, especially since it’s presented as actual fact.
I typed out two full paragraphs before really processing the bolded and have decided to delete them and leave this where it is as I agree, it's not a topic for the footy forum.
I get where you're coming from, but I don't think one can ever be surprised by the turn these kind of threads can take.
I thought this post thread was named "English people who want England to Fail" to talk about footballing issues.
But from what I've read it's more like "Anybody who hate English is welcome to throw bs"
I'm Mexican, a lot of people here hate Spanish and Americans for the same reasons. The Mexicans that hate these nations misteriously ommit the fact that Mesoamerican Pre-Columbian civilizations enforced massive genocides, ritual killings, cannibalism, totalitarism and that the technology they created was Stone Age and useless... But it seems "conqueror's hate" and bias is the same everywhere.
BTW, I do think England had a very easy route to the final... They virtually were hosting nation and got refferee help to get to the final. Still, I don't care much about who wins.
But from what I've read it's more like "Anybody who hate English is welcome to throw bs"
I'm Mexican, a lot of people here hate Spanish and Americans for the same reasons. The Mexicans that hate these nations misteriously ommit the fact that Mesoamerican Pre-Columbian civilizations enforced massive genocides, ritual killings, cannibalism, totalitarism and that the technology they created was Stone Age and useless... But it seems "conqueror's hate" and bias is the same everywhere.
BTW, I do think England had a very easy route to the final... They virtually were hosting nation and got refferee help to get to the final. Still, I don't care much about who wins.
Do you live in the UK? Are you saying these things as an explanation to why opposing fans hate England or is this your personal opinion?
If everyone took a view of wanting to hate nations for things that happened in the past nobody would get on. We could all sit here writing 10 paragraphs about Germany, Italy, USA and the atrocities those countries have done in the past.
Having read the thread-title i thought for a moment this was about boris johnson and the pandemic.
The UK is unique in that we are a union, in that union I don’t think it’s unfair to say England are the queen bee of the nest, we are the ones who hold it all together and in this union English people are the ones who can’t be patriotic as we have to bend over backwards for the union and have to be all politically correct for the union. The only time English people can be patriotic is times like this, so because of that ‘unionists’ ie:- people who are proud to be British but not English, hate that.
They hate St Georges crosses on cars and houses/hate people singing English songs and hate people being proud to be English, once England goes out, this stops so they are happy, these very same people will also no doubt be remainers and many remainers have now turned anti-Britain and hate patriotism in general.
The only major footballing nation who may be similar to the UK is Spain, the Catalan part of Spain are very anti-Spain and many wanting Spain to fail, also I might be wrong on this one, but is there a divide in Germany? A large part of Germany’s success in football is from West Germany, is that divide still there in a football sense in that eastern Germans refuse to say ‘we’ in Germany’s past success as West Germany?
As for everyone jumping in on England on this thread (largely Irish/Welsh/Scottish) I don’t blame you, it must be frustrating as we are neighbours, share an history, but you see England living like kings in a sense - A major footballing power, having the best league in world, all this money, all this investment in football, all these great players throughout the years and basically just having our scraps we don’t want, ie:- a Phil Bardsley or maybe even Patrick Bamford (who Ireland have got there eye on), I can see how that can be frustrating.
The only thing we haven't had is sucess at international level for a long time, this was the only thing they could taunt English people with, now we are in a final Sunday with a good chance of winning, they may not have anything anymore.
They hate St Georges crosses on cars and houses/hate people singing English songs and hate people being proud to be English, once England goes out, this stops so they are happy, these very same people will also no doubt be remainers and many remainers have now turned anti-Britain and hate patriotism in general.
The only major footballing nation who may be similar to the UK is Spain, the Catalan part of Spain are very anti-Spain and many wanting Spain to fail, also I might be wrong on this one, but is there a divide in Germany? A large part of Germany’s success in football is from West Germany, is that divide still there in a football sense in that eastern Germans refuse to say ‘we’ in Germany’s past success as West Germany?
As for everyone jumping in on England on this thread (largely Irish/Welsh/Scottish) I don’t blame you, it must be frustrating as we are neighbours, share an history, but you see England living like kings in a sense - A major footballing power, having the best league in world, all this money, all this investment in football, all these great players throughout the years and basically just having our scraps we don’t want, ie:- a Phil Bardsley or maybe even Patrick Bamford (who Ireland have got there eye on), I can see how that can be frustrating.
The only thing we haven't had is sucess at international level for a long time, this was the only thing they could taunt English people with, now we are in a final Sunday with a good chance of winning, they may not have anything anymore.
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Funny you mention Southgate and Little Englanders in the same sentence...
Ridiculous comment from him. Not least of all given how much Germany has progressed as a nation since then.
That and of course it's just absolutely hilarious for an English guy to be talking about invasions.
did he really say that? What a loon. It always amazes me that even top managers somehow managed to portray themselves as not very bright.This thread overall is quite ridiculous though. The sooner international football is over the better,
Any situation where nationalistic fervor becomes a nuisance or is used to oppress people, you'll have people opposing it and will result in people not supporting or even hating the national sports teams, as nationalism is associated with it. This is not exclusive to England. America, India ..many countries where this trend can be seen.
Was interesting to read some of the comments in yesterday’s Guardian, where there were a few Liverpool supporters whining on about their dislike of England generally as illustrated here-
“We're not English here in Liverpool though. I would hate to be in a crowd of England fans, they only shout and sing to throw it in face of the losers they don't know how to support their team their shocking. No songs, national anthem is utter misery, horrible atmosphere knowing your probably sitting next to someone who wouldn't piss on you if you was on fire. This is England”.
“We're not English here in Liverpool though. I would hate to be in a crowd of England fans, they only shout and sing to throw it in face of the losers they don't know how to support their team their shocking. No songs, national anthem is utter misery, horrible atmosphere knowing your probably sitting next to someone who wouldn't piss on you if you was on fire. This is England”.
They probably don’t have many friends and are miserable at others having something to celebrate.
Before reunification games between west and east were special for obvious reasons, first and foremost the cold-war. During 1974 worldcup in West Germany the DDR made sure only to let "good communist citizens" go watch the games, but in secret the West-German team with all its star-power was the real nationalteam even for East-Germans. In East Germany you could not simply pick what sport you wanted to become great at. If you were tall and athletic you were more likely to end up on the swimming team because olympic games were more important to communist countries and there are simply more medals to gain in swimming.
When we are talking about today we can see similar rifts in the public as the ones you are having but the nationalists in Germany, or more precise AFD-voters, don`t have the same numbers as brexiteers in your country and are way more direct in their racism towards our ethnically divers team so end up not supporting their country. So it`s a bit the other way round.
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All Europe with Italy
The thread was about supporting the football team.
Fascinating and interesting post. I really like the tone of your post that is well written.
"From my perspective", Watching a football game is not a complex activity and should not require an overly sophisticated underlying rationale.
If I watch a game, there are 3 main possibilities:
(1) I don't care about the outcome
(2) I want this team to win
(3) I want this team to lose
If I support a country, the main reasons can be:
(A) I like these players or some players in particular (because they are stylish or play for Manchester United etc....)..or the style of play
(B) I like the country and want my fellow citizens to be happy: shared pleasure...
If an English doesn't want his not to win, the justifications can be:
(A) I don't like the players, the coach or style of play etc.
(B) I don't like nationalism, the pride of being a citizen of a specific country
(C) I don't like football, or English football fans or the noise associated with any win in a big tournament, etc..
Reductionism is not necessarily an appropriate concept in the examples you described. I may believe that Manchester United will finish 2nd or 3rd next season....but if they recruit haaland and mbappe, then I may want to believe the club would be champions. Generally speaking, you know that details can make the difference in some activities.
Same applies to relativism. Some believe cheating is part of the game and will be happy to share some examples or say it is generalised.
I have an issue with History in the sense that a lot of atrocities was perpetuated by people who are now dead. Why should I feel sorry because the bad things done by some people two Centuries ago??
Anyway you made an interesting post I wanted to comment
Utd 1st England 2nd, always has and always will be. For people that weren't old enough or don't remember utd players use to get a lot of abuse from so-called England fans in the 90s and 2000s
For me there isnt conflict between Club and Country.
Not like there was in the late 90's.
Not like there was in the late 90's.
To be honest, I found myself in a weird position.
I really like the players in this English team(bar a few from our rivals), especially our own, but I found myself disliking the team when I watched them play.
Nothing to do with them, though and all to do with Southgate.
It seems such a waste to have that much attacking talent and use it to the bare minimum.
It feels also Jose-esque how dislikeable they became as a team because of their style.
So I found myself watching the entire event as a neutral. Which was refreshing.
Supporting United last season had taken a toll on me.
I really like the players in this English team(bar a few from our rivals), especially our own, but I found myself disliking the team when I watched them play.
Nothing to do with them, though and all to do with Southgate.
It seems such a waste to have that much attacking talent and use it to the bare minimum.
It feels also Jose-esque how dislikeable they became as a team because of their style.
So I found myself watching the entire event as a neutral. Which was refreshing.
Supporting United last season had taken a toll on me.
@Cascarino
Most of that post was from an Englisman displaying his pride in his country's achievements. The rest was banter, as is generally the case between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. I tend to disregard posts from those of British nationality for that very reason. We're always having a pop at one another, but it's light-hearted banter for the most part.
But the other nations getting their oar in I don't understand at all. Like the Germans, for example. They have a strong hooligan element of their own to contend with, as do the Russians, France, Turkey and plenty of others. Like I said the other day, hooliganism is a widespread issue, not unique to England. Not by any stretch of the imagination. So what's with their hate for England?
Most of that post was from an Englisman displaying his pride in his country's achievements. The rest was banter, as is generally the case between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. I tend to disregard posts from those of British nationality for that very reason. We're always having a pop at one another, but it's light-hearted banter for the most part.
But the other nations getting their oar in I don't understand at all. Like the Germans, for example. They have a strong hooligan element of their own to contend with, as do the Russians, France, Turkey and plenty of others. Like I said the other day, hooliganism is a widespread issue, not unique to England. Not by any stretch of the imagination. So what's with their hate for England?