English & Irish Cricket Summer 2018

Batting was and always been our major weakness during recent away tours.. As seen in SA our bowlers did their job but the batsmen can't back up Kohli..

I think we need a new captain but no one other than Kohli is even certain to be in the team..Ravi Shastri needs to go too.. There is nothing to base this on, but I elt having a proper coach like Kumble would have made so much difference for us..

Think Australia series should be a good chance for us to win,then again we might see the return of Rohit Sharma as our opener..
 
Can't believe that Kohli actually picked Vihari over Karun for this test, the Indian team selections are so random and borderline ridiculous for most matches under kohli
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Can't believe that Kohli actually picked Vihari over Karun for this test, the Indian team selections are so random and borderline ridiculous for most matches under kohli
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Karun done himself no favours in the warm up Matches Vs England Lions scores of 4 & 13 vs Essex he scored 4
 
Well you can't use hindsight to justify such decisions though, it doesn't change the fact that the decisions are completely random and they might work sometimes but I just don't see how that helps in the long run. The job of the captain and coach is to nurture talents ,Karun Nair is going to leave this tour with his confidence absolutely destroyed .
 
From an English perspective, they’re a top order and a fast bowler short from being a world class side home & away. England’s middle to lower order batting is ridiculously good. But the top 3 positions are a big worry.
 
Anyone else apply for tickets in the WC ballot? Got England vs Afghanistan but missed out on Australia vs RSA
 
Rams said:
From an English perspective, they’re a top order and a fast bowler short from being a world class side home & away. England’s middle to lower order batting is ridiculously good. But the top 3 positions are a big worry.
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What has england done to be considered world class away?

Considering they were trashed 4-0 in India and 4-0 in Australia?
 
Rams said:
From an English perspective, they’re a top order and a fast bowler short from being a world class side home & away. England’s middle to lower order batting is ridiculously good. But the top 3 positions are a big worry.
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The openers, numbers, Bairstows form, a proper spinner, possible replacements for the ageing Broad and Anderson are all issues for the ECB.

There's a lot to think about for English cricket - think about this team and the team back in 2011 which was probably Englands finest:

Cook; Strauss; Trott; Bell; Pietersen; (Not sure - Collingwood?); Prior; Swann; Bresnan; Anderson; Broad

You've not replaced the openers or Trott. Root is better than Bell; don't think there'll ever be another player as good as Pietersen. Butler could replace Prior; Swann was an incredible spinner - Ali/Rashid aren't even close to him and Bresnan has been replaced by Stokes/Curran/Woakes. Anderson, as good as he his in England, may not be as effective away from home and Broads very similar. This team is far from WC and I don't see many promising youngsters coming through, at this moment - many have been tried in different positions and none, bar Curran, have looked test quality.

I will say that the ODI team looks quality and may be considered WC by next summer.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
The openers, numbers, Bairstows form, a proper spinner, possible replacements for the ageing Broad and Anderson are all issues for the ECB.

There's a lot to think about for English cricket - think about this team and the team back in 2011 which was probably Englands finest:

Cook; Strauss; Trott; Bell; Pietersen; (Not sure - Collingwood?); Prior; Swann; Bresnan; Anderson; Broad

You've not replaced the openers or Trott. Root is better than Bell; don't think there'll ever be another player as good as Pietersen. Butler could replace Prior; Swann was an incredible spinner - Ali/Rashid aren't even close to him and Bresnan has been replaced by Stokes/Curran/Woakes. Anderson, as good as he his in England, may not be as effective away from home and Broads very similar. This team is far from WC and I don't see many promising youngsters coming through, at this moment - many have been tried in different positions and none, bar Curran, have looked test quality.

I will say that the ODI team looks quality and may be considered WC by next summer.
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There's always a supply line from youth cricket for England. The trouble is it often fizzles out.

From the top of my head: Ollie Pope, Joe Clarke, Dan Lawrence, Ben Foakes Dom Bess, George Garton, Ben Coad, Ollie Stone, Jamie Overton, Amar Virdi, Josh Tongue and Matt Fisher, are probably the next great hopes (before delving in to u19 cricket too much) which still leaves you needing opening bats, and the options there aren't great: Alex Davies, Gubbins, Will Rhodes, and James Bracey are about the only names you could probably even begin to start throwing around at the minute of the sub 25 group.
 
Rams said:
From an English perspective, they’re a top order and a fast bowler short from being a world class side home & away. England’s middle to lower order batting is ridiculously good. But the top 3 positions are a big worry.
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You guys couldnt beat us at home and should have lost if not for a stupid toss decision. No side currently is world class much less home and away.
 
MJJ said:
You guys couldnt beat us at home and should have lost if not for a stupid toss decision. No side currently is world class much less home and away.
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To be fair that was a 2 match series so one bad game and you can’t win. England also had that one bad game against India as well.

Agree that no side is world class though England would go a long way if they did have a decent fast bowler and non fragile top order. That’s not happening for a long while though.
 
On a side note Hotstar is now available in the uk and they have the streaming rights for Asia cup and as per them they will be streaming india tour of Australia and the WC as well
 
the England team make sure winning photographs are taken before the champagne is sprayed, so that Ali and Adil Rashid are not compromised by their refusal to engage with alcohol.
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Thats very decent of them, good lads.
 
4-1 was a very fair result given we lost every key, match defining moments in 4 of the 5 matches. And yet, every day of all the matches were fascinating, was a really good series to watch.

Our bowlers have bowled really well, not relying on any single figure. The batsmen on the other hand need to introspect long and hard. A huge overseas opportunity has been lost. I'm not too confident about turning it around in Australia, especially if flat and bouncy pitches are laid out.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
The openers, numbers, Bairstows form, a proper spinner, possible replacements for the ageing Broad and Anderson are all issues for the ECB.

There's a lot to think about for English cricket - think about this team and the team back in 2011 which was probably Englands finest:

Cook; Strauss; Trott; Bell; Pietersen; (Not sure - Collingwood?); Prior; Swann; Bresnan; Anderson; Broad

You've not replaced the openers or Trott. Root is better than Bell; don't think there'll ever be another player as good as Pietersen. Butler could replace Prior; Swann was an incredible spinner - Ali/Rashid aren't even close to him and Bresnan has been replaced by Stokes/Curran/Woakes. Anderson, as good as he his in England, may not be as effective away from home and Broads very similar. This team is far from WC and I don't see many promising youngsters coming through, at this moment - many have been tried in different positions and none, bar Curran, have looked test quality.

I will say that the ODI team looks quality and may be considered WC by next summer.
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I think it's pointless trying to emulate the setup of that side. The game has changed so much, there are loads of young batsmen like Lawrence and Pope who can match Pietersen for sheer audacity of stroke play because they've grown up on T20, the switch-hit is not an invention to them. Nowadays unless you can play multiple formats you find it difficult to play for a county, this combined with the fact the season is played mostly in April and September in overcast conditions it makes it very difficult to find batsmen who have scored runs or have any confidence in their skillset. I don't think England can find batsmen like Cook, Strauss and Trott because that's not what the game encourages anymore.

It's not an accident that England have a shitload of good all-rounders and wicket-keeper batsmen available and not many specialist batsmen or quick bowlers to call upon. There is also a strange fascination with orthodoxy within the English coaching structure which restricts natural talent from thriving, England could never have a Jasprit Bumrah for instance (although it remains to be seen if his action allows him to have a long test career).
 
Really impressed with India's seam attack in this series, never known that before. Don't get wrong, they've always had at least 1 decent seamer in my time, i.e Kapil Dev, Zaheer etc but I've never known a 3-4 pace attack working together. England's top order is a real mess and i don't see anyone really pushing hard in county cricket to replace the current incumbents. A sign of the times whereby limited over cricket is gaining more importance than test cricket which is sad to see.
It's not just England's problem either, just looking at that Australian squad was a real wtf moment for me.
 
Strange reading this as you'd think England had lost the series and were in turmoil!

Exciting series, England deserved winners and outclassed India at every key moment.
 
TheReligion said:
Strange reading this as you'd think England had lost the series and were in turmoil!

Exciting series, England deserved winners and outclassed India at every key moment.
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Well we kinda are to be fair.

What that says about India I'm not sure.
 
Not really sure if the middle order can be considered solid when we are often 6 or 7 down relying on the lower order to chip in.
 
TheReligion said:
Because Cook and Anderson need replacing? On the flip side the middle order is as solid as anything in the world.
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Ah, we've been in a fairly perpetual state of turmoil for several years and I don't see any of those questions being resolved this summer.

We never found a partner for Cook (and now need two openers), don't have a number 3 batsman and can't nail down a spinner. The two selection successes this summer, Buttler and Curran, haven't really addressed that.

I think it sums up how low we've sunk in terms of expectations that getting canned in Australia by a very good Aussie side in 2013/14 caused introspection and radical change, but getting canned in Australia by an incredibly average Aussie side this winter just gone changed nothing.
 
I think the problem is each country see it from their own perspective., so the English will moan about England, Australians will moan about Australia etc. The fact is, every country seems to be struggling to produce what you call test match players ( especially in foriegn conditions ) The games changed massively over the past 10 years as limited overs cricket takes over more and more.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
I think it's pointless trying to emulate the setup of that side. The game has changed so much, there are loads of young batsmen like Lawrence and Pope who can match Pietersen for sheer audacity of stroke play because they've grown up on T20, the switch-hit is not an invention to them. Nowadays unless you can play multiple formats you find it difficult to play for a county, this combined with the fact the season is played mostly in April and September in overcast conditions it makes it very difficult to find batsmen who have scored runs or have any confidence in their skillset. I don't think England can find batsmen like Cook, Strauss and Trott because that's not what the game encourages anymore.

It's not an accident that England have a shitload of good all-rounders and wicket-keeper batsmen available and not many specialist batsmen or quick bowlers to call upon. There is also a strange fascination with orthodoxy within the English coaching structure which restricts natural talent from thriving, England could never have a Jasprit Bumrah for instance (although it remains to be seen if his action allows him to have a long test career).
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Its not so much about emulating teams gone by but simply replacing quality with more quality. We've struggled to replace Sehwag, Gambhir and Laxman i.e. openers and a number 6 granted VVS may go down as one of the greatest lower order batsman there ever was. In Kohli, Pujara and Rahane we've almost attained like for like replacements for Tendulkar, Dravid and Ganguly - the first two just happened to be incredibly similar to their predecessors.

I'm not saying England need a run machine to replace Cook, a risk taker like Pietersen or a grafter like Trott. They need players to come in who can have the same impact but through different means. I said this before the series - Englands ODI rise has led to their test demise. Englands hard hitting batsmen struggled throught out the series due to their refusal to play the ball with soft hands.

Kohli demonstrated the ideal way to play in these conditions amd Cook went back in time to show us how he accumulated 12k runs - discipline, soft hands and intelligence. I see Olly Pope, albeit young, playing through the line in an aggressive manner and seeing himself being dropped - the ODI game doesnt work in these conditions. Its a completely different game. India win a few more close battles and this series could have been 4-1 against England. Thats not to say we don't have problems however, we've workes incredibly hard for 4 years to eradicate many of the issues with our bowling.

Overall, all International teams have major issues - some more so than others. England have a huge test coming up against two rubbish teams amd Herath in foreign conditions. India have a slightly less daunting task in Australia later this year. Both teams series' will tell us a little more about them and how much they've improved.

PS. KP wasnt just brilliant because of his stroke play - he was a run machine and had stats comparable to the little master for a little while. Had he carried on playing, he'd be Englands greatest, IMO.
 
Robbo's Shoulder said:
I think the problem is each country see it from their own perspective., so the English will moan about England, Australians will moan about Australia etc. The fact is, every country seems to be struggling to produce what you call test match players ( especially in foriegn conditions ) The games changed massively over the past 10 years as limited overs cricket takes over more and more.
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I'm not so sure it's about producing quality batsmen who can play in averse conditions. Yes, theres a changing style in test cricket which mirrors the shorter form; however, we've seen a huge change in the manner in which pitches are curated. Pitches were definitely more flat pre 2010, nowadays, theres literally not a place in India where its easy to bat, Jo'burg is no longer a road, it seamed and swung n almost every game here in the UK and when we go down under, it'll be fast and bouncy. The quality of batsmen has dropped but imagine being Rahul or Pant, your first tour of the UK and you're coming up against two masters of swing and seam in hugely favourable conditions. Now, they'll back to India to play on rank turners. Its hard, tbh.
 
Bring on a spinner in the powerplay against one of the best players of spin in the country, sound tactics from Lancs there.
 
Gutted I’m not home for our first finals day, hopefully Moeen can go into that worldie mode he has in home every now and again
 
Finals day is so much fun. Hope the weather stays clear.
 
Great hitting from Cox given Worcs a bit of a chance.

Umpiring has been horrible though.
 
I'm sorry, I'm sure Davies is a good player and Lilley is fine too, but there is absolutely no sense whatsoever in having one of the world's best players coming in at four behind them.
 
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