English & Irish Cricket Summer 2018



I feel this is spot on.
 
Hope we play Ali on his merit rather than playing him like a moron and losing too many wickets to him.
 
I don't get the outrage, the other English spinners look average at best and won't trouble us. Rashid definitely gave us some food for thought and should prove a test in the upcoming series.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I don't get the outrage, the other English spinners look average at best and won't trouble us. Rashid definitely gave us some food for thought and should prove a test in the upcoming series.
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Completely agree. Rashid's a level above Leach and Bess and we should be picking our best side, not worrying about principles and protocol, It's not Rashid's fault that county cricket is such a joke. Rather than raging about this kind of thing, the county chairmen need to find ways to make the four-day game relevant and testing.

To be honest, though, I think this just shows how good India's chances are.We're bringing back Rashid because we're going to play two spinners and that means the pitches are going to rag square. That can only be good news for Kohli and Shastri.

Rashid's a good bowler in white-ball cricket but there's no real pressure on him in ODIs. In test matches all the pressure's on him and he's struggled with that in the past. He seems to have gone up a level this year but let's see.

I would still play three spinners if I was India. Drop Kumar because there isn't going to be much swing in these conditions. I'd go with Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep, Umesh and Bumrah (assuming he's as good as everyone on here says!)
 
KM said:
Hope we play Ali on his merit rather than playing him like a moron and losing too many wickets to him.
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Not sure I see where he is getting a game.

Cook Jennings Root Malan Bairstow Buttler Woakes S Curran Bess Broad Anderson was the side for the last game,

Stokes for Woakes and Bess for Rashid seem nailed on.

Might drop Curran for Porter or play two spinners and three seamers, but I imagine they'll do all they can to try and keep the pitch as green as possible, and they may want to keep Curran in the side given Stokes will be unavailable for the second test.


JohnnyKills said:
Completely agree. Rashid's a level above Leach and Bess and we should be picking our best side, not worrying about principles and protocol, It's not Rashid's fault that county cricket is such a joke. Rather than raging about this kind of thing, the county chairmen need to find ways to make the four-day game relevant and testing.

To be honest, though, I think this just shows how good India's chances are.We're bringing back Rashid because we're going to play two spinners and that means the pitches are going to rag square. That can only be good news for Kohli and Shastri.

Rashid's a good bowler in white-ball cricket but there's no real pressure on him in ODIs. In test matches all the pressure's on him and he's struggled with that in the past. He seems to have gone up a level this year but let's see.

I would still play three spinners if I was India. Drop Kumar because there isn't going to be much swing in these conditions. I'd go with Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep, Umesh and Bumrah (assuming he's as good as everyone on here says!)
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There absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Rashid was a better spinner in red ball cricket than Leach when they both played it and he's since jacked in the format.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I don't get the outrage, the other English spinners look average at best and won't trouble us. Rashid definitely gave us some food for thought and should prove a test in the upcoming series.
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Rashid looked hideously average in India though and it's much more about performances. Completely undermines the County system. You can see in the statement of Yorkshire Chief, he was pretty unhappy.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Not sure I see where he is getting a game.

Cook Jennings Root Malan Bairstow Buttler Woakes S Curran Bess Broad Anderson was the side for the last game,

Stokes for Woakes and Bess for Rashid seem nailed on.

Might drop Curran for Porter or play two spinners and three seamers, but I imagine they'll do all they can to try and keep the pitch as green as possible, and they may want to keep Curran in the side given Stokes will be unavailable for the second test.




There absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Rashid was a better spinner in red ball cricket than Leach when they both played it and he's since jacked in the format.
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Leach has played his whole career at Somerset and Rashid at Yorkshire, so it's hard to compare them. Plus as I said originally, Rashid has definitely improved this summer so it's fair to give him a chance. Guess the feeling among the selectors is that Rashid has the potential to be a good test bowler whereas Leach doesn't.

Buttler's first-class record is worse than Vince or Ballance's and he hardly plays any red-ball cricket either. Would you block him from the test team as well?
 
KM said:
Rashid looked hideously average in India though and it's much more about performances. Completely undermines the County system. You can see in the statement of Yorkshire Chief, he was pretty unhappy.
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The county system has been undermining itself for years. It's watched by practically nobody and the standard has dropped considerably in recent years, with medium-pacers dominating. Kent have a guy in his mid-40s bowling 72mph seamers taking loads of wickets ffs.

The county chairmen need to have a proper think about how to revitalise the game. Whether that means playing the early part of the season on more batsmen-friendly pitches overseas, changing the playing time to suit working people, deliberately promoting talented youngsters at the expense of the ageing trundlers or simply playing fewer matches, I'm not sure. But it's not working in its current form.

The ECB has been subsidising this mediocrity for years (most counties are in a wretched financial state and need central hand-outs to survive) and there've been plenty of examples of counties promoting their own interests over the England team - look how long it took to get central contracts and two divisions. The priority is producing a strong national team and growing the game, not appeasing the committeemen in the shires.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Leach has played his whole career at Somerset and Rashid at Yorkshire, so it's hard to compare them. Plus as I said originally, Rashid has definitely improved this summer so it's fair to give him a chance. Guess the feeling among the selectors is that Rashid has the potential to be a good test bowler whereas Leach doesn't.

Buttler's first-class record is worse than Vince or Ballance's and he hardly plays any red-ball cricket either. Would you block him from the test team as well?
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I don't think Rashid has improved. He's been a very good white ball bowler for years (I believe he's taken the most wickets of anyone over the last three years or so in ODI cricket). In that period he's also been selected on tours to the subcontinent and got flogged in test cricket.

On Buttler, no, I wouldn't have have seclected him until he'd proven his form in red ball cricket as well. Regardless, Buttler is clearly a ridiculosly talented batsman who you can (as Ed Smith did) you can make a case for being given special treatment. At any rate, I'd be cautious about labelling the Buttler experiment a success after two tests.

JohnnyKills said:
The county system has been undermining itself for years. It's watched by practically nobody and the standard has dropped considerably in recent years, with medium-pacers dominating. Kent have a guy in his mid-40s bowling 72mph seamers taking loads of wickets ffs.

The county chairmen need to have a proper think about how to revitalise the game. Whether that means playing the early part of the season on more batsmen-friendly pitches overseas, changing the playing time to suit working people, deliberately promoting talented youngsters at the expense of the ageing trundlers or simply playing fewer matches, I'm not sure. But it's not working in its current form.

The ECB has been subsidising this mediocrity for years (most counties are in a wretched financial state and need central hand-outs to survive) and there've been plenty of examples of counties promoting their own interests over the England team - look how long it took to get central contracts and two divisions. The priority is producing a strong national team and growing the game, not appeasing the committeemen in the shires.
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Nah, lol, the ECB aren't the good guys in this story.
 
KM said:
Rashid looked hideously average in India though and it's much more about performances. Completely undermines the County system. You can see in the statement of Yorkshire Chief, he was pretty unhappy.
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To be fair, all of them did. Given our track record, I'd back us to destroy any newbie spinner where as the experienced guys have attained a lot more success. I can easily see the likes of Bess and Leach going at 4 runs per over without troubling as did the left armer who toured India last year.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
To be fair, all of them did. Given our track record, I'd back us to destroy any newbie spinner where as the experienced guys have attained a lot more success. I can easily see the likes of Bess and Leach going at 4 runs per over without troubling as did the left armer who toured India last year.
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The left-armer's a lawyer now so you won't be bothered by him again.
 
I don't think Rashid's selection is a slap in the face for County Cricket nor the players playing in it. It is a sober assessment of where the best spinners are in this country in terms of experience and rhythm. Lets look at the numbers thus far in the hottest summer since 1976:

In Div 1:
Virdi (Off-Spinner, Surrey) 24 wickets @ 25, no international experience, only just turned 20.
Carter (Off-Spinner, Notts) 12 wickets @ 21, no international experience, 22 years old and only played 2 first class games this year.
Parkinson (Leg-Break, Lancs) 12 wickets @ 27, no international experience, 21 years old and just got out-bowled by Joe Root in the Roses match.
Dawson (SLA, Hampshire) 11 wickets @ 29, 3 test caps.
Samit Patel (SLA, Notts) 10 wickets @ 54, 6 test caps, there's no way England are ever gonna pick him with his fitness levels.
Bess (Off-Spinner, Somerset) 9 wickets @ 52, 2 test caps, played the last test match but just got dropped by Somerset
Moeen (Off-Spinner, Worcs) 8 wickets @ 21 (in 1 match!), 50 test caps, bowls pretty handily at home.
Leach (SLA, Somerset) 6 wickets @ 56, 1 test cap, barely bowled since suffering from a concussion after he had recovered from a broken thumb.

+ Mason Crane is injured.

In Div 2:
Critchley (Leg-Break, Derbyshire) 19 wickets @ 37, no international experience, only 21.
Briggs (SLA, Sussex) 16 wickets @ 24, a solitary ODI and a few T20s, 27 years old.

Ali as the off-spinner is a no brainer, he's in form, in rhythm and has good record in England. If he's your off-spinner then you need someone who spins it the other way. That only realistically leaves Leach and Parkinson as viable County options, unless you factor in Rashid who according to Trevor Bayliss is bowling the best he's ever seen him. Leach just has not bowled enough and Parkinson is too young. The coaches and players know Rashid's game, he is in rhythm and as he is as good as anyone else out there.

All that said it is confusing that Rashid did not play the Roses game in order to adjust to the different format, Yorkshire ended up loaning a spinner for one game and I can understand their disappointment as the player they signed to play shorter formats won't play shorter formats because he's now playing the longer format for someone else. It is unfair however to expect Rashid to reject the chance to play for England in order to respect this contract.

I believe the selectors have selected the best player available but the ECB have a lot to answer for with how they are marginalising County Cricket for shorter formats. Both Hales and Rashid both announced white-ball only contracts with the World Cup their sole focus and the ECB did little to dissuade them. The numbers above are also greatly influenced by the fact they has not been much County Cricket whilst it's been so dry bowled because they've been playing the shorter formats instead, last week was the first round of County games for a month and there won't be any more for another 3 weeks (in the height of summer!). This will only get worse once they introduce whatever bastardised nonsense 'The Hundred' transpires to be. The ECB don't care about County Cricket or Test Cricket.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
All that said it is confusing that Rashid did not play the Roses game in order to adjust to the different format, Yorkshire ended up loaning a spinner for one game and I can understand their disappointment as the player they signed to play shorter formats won't play shorter formats because he's now playing the longer format for someone else.
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It isn't. It was an important game and they were wise enough not to throw in someone who had abandoned first class cricket. It would've been an insane selection.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
It isn't. It was an important game and they were wise enough not to throw in someone who had abandoned first class cricket. It would've been an insane selection.
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But does anyone know why he had abandoned first-class cricket? Was he perhaps encouraged by the ECB to play as much one-day stuff as possible in the lead up to the World Cup? Did he feel he would never play test cricket for England after watching Mason Crane get the nod over him? Did he just not fancy it? None of us really know. I know Rashid refused to play in a Championship decider and relations were a potentially a bit strained already but he is their player and they'd be the insane ones for not playing him over Poysden.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
But does anyone know why he had abandoned first-class cricket? Was he perhaps encouraged by the ECB to play as much one-day stuff as possible in the lead up to the World Cup? Did he feel he would never play test cricket for England after watching Mason Crane get the nod over him? Did he just not fancy it? None of us really know. I know Rashid refused to play in a Championship decider and relations were a potentially a bit strained already but he is their player and they'd be the insane ones for not playing him over Poysden.
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He's never been all that for Yorkshire, frankly. He gets tailenders out.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
To be fair, all of them did. Given our track record, I'd back us to destroy any newbie spinner where as the experienced guys have attained a lot more success. I can easily see the likes of Bess and Leach going at 4 runs per over without troubling as did the left armer who toured India last year.
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Zafar Ansari, he retired shortly after, aged 25
 
I have absolutely no recollection of Ansari playing test cricket. I'll believe y'all despite how unlikely it sounds.

Unrelatedly...

England leg-spinner Adil Rashid says former captain Michael Vaughan's comments about his recall to the Test squad are "stupid" and "do not matter".
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In fairness, 'stupid and doesn't matter' is a pretty good description of anything Vaughan says.
 
I’m not sure where I stand on him being selected but what I do know for sure is that Vaughan is an annoying little wanker and should just shut his stupid face.
 
Dhawan out for duck in both the innings.
 
Yorkshire can't be THAT displeased with Rashid, they're playing him in the T20 vs Warwickshire.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
There's a suggestion they feel he's mislead them, is there?
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Well Ed Smith says he kept Yorkshire posted throughout the entire process and the only point of contention as far as I can see is Rashid rejecting the opportunity to play in the Roses match. I think there might be a a wider context to this all, Plunkett and Willey got IPL contracts last minute (which the ECB could block in theory) and Yorkshire were properly miffed at the lack of notice. Plunkett has now signed a deal with Surrey.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Yorkshire can't be THAT displeased with Rashid, they're playing him in the T20 vs Warwickshire.
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Pragmatic decision. They're struggling in the table and he's probably their best t20 player.

Sounds like he's gone at the end of the season. Apparently he wants to go to Worcs with his bezzie Moeen. Notts would be a good move for him though - div1 team, test ground and no established spinner.
 
Apparently the Edgbaston pitch has loads of grass on it so there may be no need to pick two spinners after all!

If England don't pick Rashid after all this upheaval, it'll be madness.

Got a feeling India are going to win this one big.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Apparently the Edgbaston pitch has loads of grass on it so there may be no need to pick two spinners after all!

If England don't pick Rashid after all this upheaval, it'll be madness.

Got a feeling India are going to win this one big.
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Nah. Anderson is going to run through our batting lineup.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Apparently the Edgbaston pitch has loads of grass on it so there may be no need to pick two spinners after all!

If England don't pick Rashid after all this upheaval, it'll be madness.

Got a feeling India are going to win this one big.
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Rashid is playing, it's Moeen and Porter that miss out.

Buttler is also named vice captain.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Apparently the Edgbaston pitch has loads of grass on it so there may be no need to pick two spinners after all!

If England don't pick Rashid after all this upheaval, it'll be madness.

Got a feeling India are going to win this one big.
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Not a chance. Bhuvi and bumrah aren't playing. Dhawan and Rahane in shit form.
 
India are probably favourites. This is the weakest England test team in a long time. Anderson and Broad are not what they used to be and the batting is fragile.
 
When was the last time India played 5 match Test series? Last time they were here I thought India were completely knackered by the 4th test.
 
waza7111 said:
India are probably favourites. This is the weakest England test team in a long time. Anderson and Broad are not what they used to be and the batting is fragile.
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We are in the worse spot. Our two best pace bowlers aren't playing and batting is fragile. Gonna be exciting match between two mediocre teams.

If bhuvi and bumrah had been fit, I'd have us as favorites.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Rashid is playing, it's Moeen and Porter that miss out.

Buttler is also named vice captain.
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Ah cheers, hadn't seen this.

Yeah I think Buttler will be the next captain after Root.

Remember speaking to Darren Gough about the England captaincy and he was hugely positive about Buttler. There's clearly a feeling in the game that he's got a good cricket brain.

Love all the Indian optimism on here!
 
JohnnyKills said:
Yeah the reaction to the a/c thing is weird tbh.

There's definitely a perception in English cricket circles that the BCCI throw their weight around a bit, but this doesn't seem to be one of those occasions.
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The BCCI does throw their weight around.
But there was nothing wrong in the request they were asking for this match!
 
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