As a casual, does it really make a difference if you come in at 3 or 4 ? It's all psychological isn't it.
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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To be fair in the first innings of the last test he stayed in for over an hour when him and Stokes were trying to calm things down.
Still only got 20 mind, but still....
In theory, by the time number 4 comes in, your openers and the number 3 have been in long enough that the new ball is no longer new.
In England reality, its all psychological.
They’ve taken a step back this summer selection wise. Last summer whether you agreed with Stokes/McCullum or not they basically dictated to the players what they wanted. Now it feels like they’re shying away from making those strong decisive calls.
It’ll be even more challenging when Leach comes back. A tail of four seamers and Leach is scary, let alone replacing Bairstow with Foakes on top of that. I just don’t see how it works with Stokes unable to bowl.
Even if you look to move up one of Root, Stokes or Bairstow … longer term Pope will surely come straight back in.
Even if you look to move up one of Root, Stokes or Bairstow … longer term Pope will surely come straight back in.
I’m not convinced with Crawley and Pope still. Lot of holes in this team for me, even with how competitive they’ve been over the last 12 months.
Cook, Strauss, Trott and Swann still haven’t been replaced and we’re going to have to figure out how to replace Anderson and Stokes the all-rounder very soon too.
When they play abroad on sub continent pitches, I can see someone like Sam Curran coming back in as the spinners will do the majority of the bowling. With the Stokes issue, the side is going to have to be picked depending on the specific conditions. I don't think they will play Leach and 4 seamers as that doesn't work.
There was a piece on BBC test match coverage last week, because someone said just that, so they showed the stats of some of the best batters of all time and it made a huge difference. One was an opening batter who averaged about significantly less as number 1 than he did as number 2.
I think Moeen at 3 is probably the best you can do in the circumstances. I think it’s the right call to protect Brook, and we may as well maximise what we can get out of Root and Stokes given they are two individual potential match winners. It’s not ideal, but it’s not like we lose loads in terms of returns from Mo from it.
The issue is he shouldn't really be in the team, but is due to the absence of options across the board.
The issue is he shouldn't really be in the team, but is due to the absence of options across the board.
Cricket is so psychological and if Moeen batting at 3 keeps Root/Brooks etc happy where they can make big scores then so be it, Moeen will score 15-20 wherever he plays so it is what it is. To be honest it feels like we have much bigger issues than that anyway!
The elephant in the room of course is stokes being completely broken, I worry how long he can actually continue for, it’s fine when he’s scoring runs but does there reach a point where combined with our WK situation his inclusion holds us back?
The elephant in the room of course is stokes being completely broken, I worry how long he can actually continue for, it’s fine when he’s scoring runs but does there reach a point where combined with our WK situation his inclusion holds us back?
I really hope he proves me wrong, but I think picking Anderson is a mistake. He hasn't really shown anything this series apart from being able to still find the length but had no results when others bowlers did have.
It's a shame, but he has looked like this was one series too far. Mind you he tends to respond when under pressure, so let's hope for a last couple of 5 wicket innings from him.
It's a shame, but he has looked like this was one series too far. Mind you he tends to respond when under pressure, so let's hope for a last couple of 5 wicket innings from him.
Going into Root’s average by batting position. Averages about 40 in the top 3, 50 batting at 4 and 60 batting at 5, so the numbers say we have him probably batting at the best position for the team overall. But the best 18 months of his career he was basically coming in at 2 down for nothing anyway.
I had never twigged how poor his Ashes average (40) is for his ability, I think this is a pretty big test for him, if Cummins gets him out again he’s in danger of getting onto those same ‘bunny’ lists that get pulled up every time Broad gets Warner.
I had never twigged how poor his Ashes average (40) is for his ability, I think this is a pretty big test for him, if Cummins gets him out again he’s in danger of getting onto those same ‘bunny’ lists that get pulled up every time Broad gets Warner.
Going through the England batting order outside of the openers and pulling out where they average the most by position (min 10 innings):
Pope - Averages 45 batting @ 3. The double century vs Ireland is doing some serious heavy lifting there, if you Root maths that innings he’s averaging 36.7.
Root - Averages 60 batting @ 5. His next best position is @ 4 and he’s the only other bat who averages above 50 in more than one position.
Brook - Averages 75 batting @ 5.
Stokes - Averages 39.5 @ 5. You don’t lose much dropping down to 6.
Bairstow - Averages 43.5 @ 5 without the gloves. Most centuries in this position too and they were all last summer.
Ali - Averages 33.5 @ 7 but he’s averaging 20.2 with the bat since 2017. England are basically playing Ashley Giles at 3 right now.
Foakes - Averages 35.7 batting @ 7 with the gloves.
Woakes - Averages 30 batting @ 9.
Looking at that you want Brook at 5 with Root and Stokes either side. After that, really Bairstow isn’t in the mix as a standalone bat and if he’s got the gloves and is batting 7 he’s averaging 3 more runs than Foakes which just isn’t worth the degradation in keeping skill.
None of this has told us anything we hadn’t already figured out or complained about. Ali is the sacrificial lamb that England can kind of rationalise because he used to be a proper bat and it’s a selection that’s driven by being a bowler shorter than they would like.
Pope - Averages 45 batting @ 3. The double century vs Ireland is doing some serious heavy lifting there, if you Root maths that innings he’s averaging 36.7.
Root - Averages 60 batting @ 5. His next best position is @ 4 and he’s the only other bat who averages above 50 in more than one position.
Brook - Averages 75 batting @ 5.
Stokes - Averages 39.5 @ 5. You don’t lose much dropping down to 6.
Bairstow - Averages 43.5 @ 5 without the gloves. Most centuries in this position too and they were all last summer.
Ali - Averages 33.5 @ 7 but he’s averaging 20.2 with the bat since 2017. England are basically playing Ashley Giles at 3 right now.
Foakes - Averages 35.7 batting @ 7 with the gloves.
Woakes - Averages 30 batting @ 9.
Looking at that you want Brook at 5 with Root and Stokes either side. After that, really Bairstow isn’t in the mix as a standalone bat and if he’s got the gloves and is batting 7 he’s averaging 3 more runs than Foakes which just isn’t worth the degradation in keeping skill.
None of this has told us anything we hadn’t already figured out or complained about. Ali is the sacrificial lamb that England can kind of rationalise because he used to be a proper bat and it’s a selection that’s driven by being a bowler shorter than they would like.
Am I the only one who has been mostly happy with how Moeen has bowled so far? He's got some crucial wickets.
He was ace in the 3rd test that spell on Day 2 was crucial.
I agree, and I’m worried it’s a sentimental pick. Really hope we’re wrong and the occasion of it probably being his last Test, at his home ground and potentially a more lively pitch means he can be at his best one last time.
The BBC weather app is strange. The icon for tomorrow in Manchester is a black cloud with a rain drop. When you go into the hourly forecast, it says rain at 1pm for less than an hour (29% chance), the other 23 hours in the day is sunny intervals or clear. It’s so misleading.
You can tell I’m busy at work.
You can tell I’m busy at work.
The forecast is actually pretty good bar Saturday
Tradionally your number 4 will be a bit more flamboyant and attacking compared to the number 3
According to the Met Office the weather is good bar Sunday - which is raining all day.
Yeah it changed a lot since I checked a few days ago which is good, really want to see a whole days play on Friday as i am going ha
I probably meant that - got my days mixed up
Saturday looks horrible to me. Likely no play unless it changes.
going to vote for a warner hundred this test.
Still find it a little unsatisfying that in a draw the holders retain. Seems lot more indicative that in a draw the away side wins it (basically the same concept as away goals but with almost 0 micro-impacts that made away goals pretty unfair).
Still remember when a couple of weeks back someone in this thread was preaching us that Australia are so smart that they would never play without a spinner
So they are going in packed with batsmen - slightly negative mindset, I like it 
Yup from ball 1 at Edgbaston they have taken the defensive option so that theme continues here
England need to make sure they take all their catches with Cummins coming in at 10.
Hopefully the pitch requires spin
Hopefully the pitch requires spin
Yep I remember although Head is always a useful option for spin but he’s no Lyon. They are obviously worried about the batting so they’ve gone for a deeper line up but England need to make use of the no frontline spinner.
Crucial run out there for England.
Fair fecking play to Amy Jones, rapid behind the stumps. A crueler man than me would make a joke about Bairstow.
So England essentially lost this poundland Ashes by 3 runs?
It was so fast though - cat stuff!
And now Sutherland gets bowled and that's 8 wickets down.
I guess you could also make the argument that the only reason Australia have retained is because the test is weighted heavier in points. Not that I’m assuming this one is done yet.
Incredible performance overall by England women in the Ashes
Well done to the England women's team, they were a tad unlucky to not have won outright, do feel a bonus point should go to which team won the most matches, or at least a bonus point for winning the mini format series.
Think England have to bowl first regardless of the pitch today and hope they can take control of the pace of the test with quick wickets.
England going out there and blasting 300 odd doesn’t really do much and getting a big score but taking time out of the match is similarly unlikely to produce a result.
England going out there and blasting 300 odd doesn’t really do much and getting a big score but taking time out of the match is similarly unlikely to produce a result.
Evidently Stokes and England saw things in exactly the same way. Unfortunately, the consensus seems to be that the wicket looks pretty favourable for batting, and that department looks very much like the Aussies’ strength in this game.