English cricket thread

NinjaFletch said:
I sort of share the disappointment with Woakes. Really thought he'd be an incredible player for England and he's now 31 and only played 34 tests.

Unfortunately for him came along probably 5 years too early.
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If only Kerrigan had been as many chances as him after that disastrous first match...
 
Stokes really is by far the most valuable cricketer in the world. Guy is an absolute freak and based on all the reports you hear from the England camp he is just as intense in practice as he is in matches What an incredible cricketer
 
England's Ben Stokes has overtaken West Indies captain Jason Holder to become the number one ranked all-rounder in the world.

The 29-year-old scored 254 runs and took three wickets as England beat West Indies at Old Trafford on Monday to level the three-Test series at 1-1.

Stokes is the first English all-rounder to top the rankings since Andrew Flintoff in May 2006.

He has also climbed to a career-best third position in the batting rankings.

The left-hander is joint third with Australia's Marnus Labuschagne and behind only Australia's Steve Smith and India captain Virat Kohli.

Stokes' tally of 497 points is the highest by any Test all-rounder since Jacques Kallis' 517 in April 2008.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53485019

Highest all rounder points since Kallis is some achievement, and you sort of feel like he's only just starting to churn out the stats his talent has always suggested he could.
 
Have we got any Pakistani fans on here?
Checking the warmup scorecard. Pakistan’s bowling looks like a good attack but I’m just going off reputation and not performances as I haven’t seen much. Abbas, Naseem, Shaheen, Shadab/Yasir. I notice the batting has Haider Ali who I thought was good in the u19 World Cup.
 
NinjaFletch said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53485019

Highest all rounder points since Kallis is some achievement, and you sort of feel like he's only just starting to churn out the stats his talent has always suggested he could.
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I think he visibly developed after his fantastic 2017 IPL, it gave him a lot of confidence. Since July 2017 he averages 43 with the bat and 29 with the ball in tests.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
I think he visibly developed after his fantastic 2017 IPL, it gave him a lot of confidence. Since July 2017 he averages 43 with the bat and 29 with the ball in tests.
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Yeah, I think that helped him no doubt. The other obvious incident is the affray charges in September of that year which most of the England squad have said made him redouble his efforts as he'd realised how fleeting the career of a professional sports person is.
 
zing said:
Have we got any Pakistani fans on here?
Checking the warmup scorecard. Pakistan’s bowling looks like a good attack but I’m just going off reputation and not performances as I haven’t seen much. Abbas, Naseem, Shaheen, Shadab/Yasir. I notice the batting has Haider Ali who I thought was good in the u19 World Cup.
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Batting will depend on Azam and Ali but don't expect much from them in England, should be a comfortable series for the hosts.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Yeah, I think that helped him no doubt. The other obvious incident is the affray charges in September of that year which most of the England squad have said made him redouble his efforts as he'd realised how fleeting the career of a professional sports person is.
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Yep. I felt he was bit tense when he was playing with that case going on and after he was cleared, a product of not wanting to let his team down again. It's a real pleasure to watch him.
 
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I think England will go Broad/Anderson, but I think Woakes would be desperately unlucky to miss out. In short, I think he's simply the more rounded cricketer these days and is a considerably better bowler with the old ball.

Leach also has to play for me, not only has Bess bowled poorly this series, but WI may well have 11 right handers. Left arm spin is a no-brainer.

Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Woakes, Archer, Leach, Anderson/Broad would probably be my side.
 
I'm hoping the Windies play Cornwall. It's surely going to turn square in the next one, after 5 days of cricket have already been played on it. Spare one of their quicks having to break their back on an unresponsive pitch and let Cornwall and Chase spin them to victory.
 
freeurmind said:
Dunno how you could possibly leave out Broad or Anderson in a decisive match.
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I think they're just essentially very similar players now. Broad in particular looks all the world like a new ball bowler. He took his six wickets in this match in a burst with the new ball in the first innings (82nd to the 86th over) and in an extended first spell with the new ball over lunch in the second innings. Anderson is the more skilful bowler, mind.

I don't think playing both or either is necessarily the wrong decision, but I think once the shine wears off the ball an attack with one or the other is more balanced and that Woakes gives you a more consistent threat than Broad with the older ball.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I think they're just essentially very similar players now. Broad in particular looks all the world like a new ball bowler. He took his six wickets in this match in a burst with the new ball in the first innings (82nd to the 86th over) and in an extended first spell with the new ball over lunch in the second innings. Anderson is the more skilful bowler, mind.

I don't think playing both or either is necessarily the wrong decision, but I think once the shine wears off the ball an attack with one or the other is more balanced and that Woakes gives you a more consistent threat than Broad with the older ball.
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Broad is England's Morne Morkel. His figures don't look that impressive but the attack just looks so much worse when he's not there. If you'd rather have Woakes than Archer, I think that's fine. I do agree that Woakes is underrated though, but he does seem to get injured alot.
 
freeurmind said:
Broad is England's Morne Morkel. His figures don't look that impressive but the attack just looks so much worse when he's not there. If you'd rather have Woakes than Archer, I think that's fine. I do agree that Woakes is underrated though, but he does seem to get injured alot.
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I take your point, but I don't agree with the analogy!

It's not really a criticism of Broad, I think he's still a very good bowler. He had a good game in Manchester, and he's taken an awful lot of wickets over the past year.

But I think there has to be a realisation that he's not the same bowler he once was, and that he has adapted his game over the past two years. Unfortunately the type of bowler he now is is pretty similar to Anderson now, and, unfortunately for Broad, Anderson is one of the all time great examples of that type of bowler with more in his locker when the ball stops moving (not that Broad relies too much on that with the new ball, it's more hitting the pitch hard when the ball is hard) There will be matches when you can, and should, play the two together and matches where other options give you more balance.

Given what we've seen this series you could make the argument you play two new ball bowlers and try and shock the Windies, but I don't think the combined pair give you the most consistent threat throughout the innings.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I think they're just essentially very similar players now. Broad in particular looks all the world like a new ball bowler. He took his six wickets in this match in a burst with the new ball in the first innings (82nd to the 86th over) and in an extended first spell with the new ball over lunch in the second innings. Anderson is the more skilful bowler, mind.

I don't think playing both or either is necessarily the wrong decision, but I think once the shine wears off the ball an attack with one or the other is more balanced and that Woakes gives you a more consistent threat than Broad with the older ball.
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Both Broad & Woakes only took 1 wicket each with a ball over 9 overs old (Sam Curran took 3), England could do with someone like a peak Simon Jones who’s arguably better with an older ball than they’re with a new one.

To me you can only have 2 from Woakes, Broad & Anderson, if they’re not taking the new ball no point in them being in the team, which then leaves on of the pace of Archer or the left arm and a bit of extra batting depth of Curran
(Wood avg is 45 in England which is why I’m not including him)

Windies were still getting the old ball to talk in it’s 90th over but they were bowling to Sibley & Stokes but they looked like they could only get themselves out. But England made it look like a kookaburra it looked dead as a dodo after about 10 overs.

Also I didn’t like how Root used Stokes he is a far better bowler than the enforcer roll he was given, far enough give Blackwood and Brathwaite some short stuff as they will play the pull/ hook shot, but wasted on Chase & Brooks who dodge, dip, dive, duck & dodge it
 
paulscholes18 said:
Both Broad & Woakes only took 1 wicket each with a ball over 9 overs old (Sam Curran took 3), England could do with someone like a peak Simon Jones who’s arguably better with an older ball than they’re with a new one.

To me you can only have 2 from Woakes, Broad & Anderson, if they’re not taking the new ball no point in them being in the team, which then leaves on of the pace of Archer or the left arm and a bit of extra batting depth of Curran
(Wood avg is 45 in England which is why I’m not including him)

Windies were still getting the old ball to talk in it’s 90th over but they were bowling to Sibley & Stokes but they looked like they could only get themselves out. But England made it look like a kookaburra it looked dead as a dodo after about 10 overs.

Also I didn’t like how Root used Stokes he is a far better bowler than the enforcer roll he was given, far enough give Blackwood and Brathwaite some short stuff as they will play the pull/ hook shot, but wasted on Chase & Brooks who dodge, dip, dive, duck & dodge it
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Well Woakes took 4 by that criteria, but I think you're just counting weird! Either way, I think Woakes bowled consistently tightest with the old ball, got the most movement throughout the innings of the England seamers after the ball stopped swinging, looked able to threaten both edges, was the most economical of the lot, and generally looked the most likely to make the breakthrough at any point.

Oh and he bounced out Brooks but England forgot to review.

I really think he's done more than enough to stay in. I mean hell, he has a better home average in England than Anderson and took his wickets at 15 in the test.
 
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NinjaFletch said:
Well Woakes took 4 by that criteria, but I think you're just counting weird! Either way, I think Woakes bowled consistently tightest with the old ball, got the most movement throughout the innings of the England seamers after the ball stopped swinging, looked able to threaten both edges, was the most economical of the lot, and generally looked the most likely to make the breakthrough at any point.

Oh and he bounced out Brooks but England forgot to review.

I really think he's done more than enough to stay in. I mean hell, he has a better home average in England than Anderson and took his wickets at 15 in the test.
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Yer my bad, new ball after 80 not 90 overs ‍facepalm
 
Jos Buttler has so many gears but has yet to work out how to use them - and England can't afford for him to keep stalling
Scyld Berry Chief Cricket Writer 23 July 2020 • 4:48pm
5-6 minutes https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket...y-gears-has-yet-work-use-england-cant-afford/

Not since the 1980s have England tolerated a wicketkeeper averaging less than 20 with the bat. Yet in the seven Tests since he was officially installed as England’s keeper instead of Jonny Bairstow, Jos Buttler has averaged 18.

So Buttler could do with a good third Test at Old Trafford in three ways: with the bat, with the gloves, and with the result, ie England win and regain the Wisden Trophy. But even if none eventualises, Buttler could still hang on to his Test place: it was the same national selector, Ed Smith, who offered Bairstow in 2018 the poisoned chalice of batting at No 5, when no keeper had ever made regular runs so high except Zimbabwe’s Andy Flower, to make room for Buttler's Test recall.

It is one of the mysteries of this age that a batsman so talented as Buttler has gone to the wicket 77 times in a Test and scored only one more century than most of you and I would have done. Sometimes he has been the wicketkeeper, sometimes a specialist batsman; sometimes he has made a counterattacking 50 which has been as effective as a hundred in changing the course of a match. Nevertheless, a single Test hundred, and Buttler is only a couple of months from turning 30, and the graph is heading downward.

Too often Buttler has been selfless in the interests of the England team as he has perceived them, doing himself and his average no good. The typical Buttler Test innings has been a quick 30, including a six that has soared miles, as England’s tail has been blown away. Most of his predecessors would have opted for holding up an end, hoping to find a tailender to stick around, and if nothing else a neat not-out 20.

Belatedly Buttler seems to have realised he has to play himself in for the first 20 balls before unleashing. He has tried batting in Tests as he does in white-ball internationals, but only Ben Stokes is good enough to blast Test bowling from ball one. Spoilt for choice in having so many gears, Buttler has yet to work out how to use them.

Buttler, selflessly, volunteered to open last Sunday evening, and dragged on for a duck. It was the same mistake England made in the final session of the Abu Dhabi Test of 2015: when time, not the number of overs, determines the amount of batting England have, send in a pair of right-handers or left-handers. Do not mix them, because it gives the opposing captain the excuse to waste even more time by changing the field and costs an over or two.

The standard of English wicketkeeping has become so high - much credit to Bruce French, the keeping coach, the one who averaged 18 back in the late 1980s - that most Test series pass without England’s keeper missing a catch standing back; perhaps one drop a year. What differentiates keepers is the turning pitch, which this one is likely to be, by English standards. Not Colombo or Galle, where Ben Foakes excelled in his debut series, but a relative home turner.

In his last game on a turner, at Port Elizabeth last winter, Buttler had a shocker - 16 byes - when keeping to the offbreaks of Dom Bess and Joe Root, hardly mystery-spinners. Buttler since then has corrected his mistake - he would not bend down low enough - and has changed his set-up when standing up, so that he now touches the ground with his gloves before every ball, to make himself stay down.

Keepers offer different qualities as they become the fulcrum of their side in the field. Some offer bustle and energy in the style pioneered by Godfrey Evans, like Bairstow (father and son) or Matt Prior. Others emulate Alan Knott, like Foakes or Jack Russell or James Foster, and polish their team’s out-cricket by moving sinuously and making a wild throw melt into their gloves: these are the keepers begotten not made. No data can quantify the impact of this choreography, or ballet, but it has to be valuable in satisfying spectators and daunting opponents.

Buttler does neither. Of course he makes his catches and takes throws tidily enough. The value he adds behind the stumps is the advice to his captain and the quiet encouragement to bowlers and fielders. He is one of England’s Test triumvirate with Root and Stokes, as signalled when he was made vice-captain to Stokes in Southampton when Root was attending the birth of his second child.

But England cannot forever make do with 20s and 30s from their keeper/bat: the side lacks a core. It had one when there were three world-class all-rounders, but in the last couple of years only Stokes has kicked on, while Moeen Ali has fallen by the wayside and Bairstow has been shunted around then omitted. He was averaging twice as much as Buttler of late, until that which did not have to be fixed was broken.
 
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England batting first - Crawley and Curran dropped for Archer & Anderson such a fecking long tail
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Archer
Broad
Anderson
The big guy is playing for the Windies
 
paulscholes18 said:
England batting first - Crawley and Curran dropped for Archer & Anderson such a fecking long tail
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Archer
Broad
Anderson
The big guy is playing for the Windies
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Surprising team selection. Bit like 3 down and into the tail on current form
 
paulscholes18 said:
England batting first - Crawley and Curran dropped for Archer & Anderson such a fecking long tail
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Archer
Broad
Anderson
The big guy is playing for the Windies
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Yeah looking forward to seeing him when they have a bat too,reminds of that Afghanistan player from world cup a few years back
 
zing said:
Surprising team selection. Bit like 3 down and into the tail on current form
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I think it's a selection made based on the weather forecast. There won't be a lot of time to take 20 wickets.
 
England will need Buttler to make a big score and validate the faith shown in him.
 
What a catch from Cornwall. Nothing is getting past his very impressive torso.

Think Cornwall is going to become a real cult hero of this generation.
 
In terms of prodigious young English batsmen in my lifetime, I would put Ollie Pope at the top. Wonderful balance.
 
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