To be fair to the selectors, I think Pope was ill.
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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To be fair to the selectors, I think Pope was ill.
He was also injured at the start of this summer.
But the general point that we've been busy watching Bairstow be absolute cack for two years whilst a ridiculously talented cricketer (by far the most exciting red ball talent since Root) has plundered county attacks for absolute fun stands.
Once we shaft Buttler for Foakes I think we're on the verge of a competent test side.
Agree. I think dropping him in 2018 when they made him bat at 4 and he hadn't done too much wrong wasn't a good idea.
One of a number of odd decisions made in the Bayliss era.
Thankfully it's behind us now. I know a few of us gave him some stick for the handling of the Bairstow recall during the illness crisis, but I do think we're starting to see the Silverwood blueprint with the bat emerge a bit. I'm sure I said it this year that I didn't think some of the players in the top order were as bad as we thought, they were just getting ridiculous advice off Bayliss about how he wanted them to play and construct their innings. Long may I be proven right.
Poor Broad.
Imagine being so shit with the bat that your captain declares when he thinks you might get a hit and then undeclares when he realises you're not going to.
Imagine being so shit with the bat that your captain declares when he thinks you might get a hit and then undeclares when he realises you're not going to.
Why has Mark Wood turned into the world's best bastman 
This is brilliant from England. Have to declare at 500 surely.
The cricinfo summary page is driving me mad today, keeps flicking around all the time. Anyone else having problems?
Yep. Doing it to me and there's been comments about it on there as well. Pain in the arse.
Pain in the eyes, more like.
Restricted to below 500, advantage South Africa
Fair points mate, to be honest I can see it from both sides. It does seem petty, but Rabada's celebration was a bit excessive and unnecessary. If the batsman responded with similar aggression there could easily be a confrontation.
What does everyone make of the declaration/ changing of mind?
Cricinfo have dug out the official laws of the game:
"15.1 Time of declaration
The captain of the side batting may declare an innings closed, when the ball is dead, at any time during the innings. A declared innings shall be considered to be a completed innings.
15.3
A captain shall notify the opposing captain and the umpires of any decision to declare or to forfeit an innings. Once notified, the decision cannot be changed"
But effectively once the no-ball was called, we go back in time by 1 ball and by 1 wicket. And as the commentary also quite rightly points out, Root made his decision based on the fact that he thought Wood was out and Broad was on his way in, and he wanted to protect Broad.
Some may argue that Root could have waited for the no-ball to be reviewed but if you think about it this isn't really realistic. South Africa are bound to be a bit salty about this but I think the right decision was made.
Cricinfo have dug out the official laws of the game:
"15.1 Time of declaration
The captain of the side batting may declare an innings closed, when the ball is dead, at any time during the innings. A declared innings shall be considered to be a completed innings.
15.3
A captain shall notify the opposing captain and the umpires of any decision to declare or to forfeit an innings. Once notified, the decision cannot be changed"
But effectively once the no-ball was called, we go back in time by 1 ball and by 1 wicket. And as the commentary also quite rightly points out, Root made his decision based on the fact that he thought Wood was out and Broad was on his way in, and he wanted to protect Broad.
Some may argue that Root could have waited for the no-ball to be reviewed but if you think about it this isn't really realistic. South Africa are bound to be a bit salty about this but I think the right decision was made.
Think we should stick with Buttler personally. Yes, the idea of him is much greater than the reality at the moment (as a test player at least) but the potential he offers at No.7 is too great to throw away.
We just need to give him complete licence to play his natural game. When you watched him bat today (and yes, it was a brief innings) he wasn't trying to score, just dead-batting it. That's not the way he approaches white-ball cricket.
If we're 100-5 then sure, he needs to wind his neck in. But in a situation like today he should be told to go out and play freely. If it doesn't come off, never mind. The whole point of having a defensive top three, and putting someone like Bess into the side at 8, is to give our stroke-makers more freedom.
Also, if I'm not wrong Foakes had a rotten summer last year, so he's not automatically going to come in and score more runs.
Why no Wood?
Holding him back until he's ready to pop, when he finally gets on he'll send bat, pad, stumps and man flying back into the pavilion.
I'm just not sure what faith there is that Buttler can do it.
He averages 32 after 39 tests with 1 hundred. He averages 32 in first class cricket, he averages 32 since coming back into the side and he's 29 now. I think he's just a player good enough to average in the low thirties in red ball cricket. If he was an outstandingly good keeper you could accept that, but he isn't. He's a passable keeper (probably better than Bairstow but there's not much in it) who wouldn't be in the side if not for his (perceived) ability with the bat.
On the other hand Foakes is comfortably the better keeper, younger, has as many test hundreds as Buttler in 5 games and averages more with the bat (believe it was in the 40s before this season which, as you rightly say was lean). Even when he's not contributing with the bat he has the ability to create chances with his glove work that Buttler simply doesn't.
Buttler will rightly go down as one of England's greatest white ball players, but it hasn't happened for him in 40 tests and 100+ first class matches with a red ball. I think that's ok; we just have to accept him for what he is.
Completely agree
To be fair he's showing some real pace so far isn't he.
Pitch letting him down, but to be honest I'd still like him to get it up (with the odd short ball of course) with three slips. I don't see what we have to lose towards the end of a day sitting on a 400+ lead. Perhaps classic armchair fan stuff not knowing the conditions but let him off the lease and back him with an attacking field for me.
Outstanding day for England.
Those two wickets at the end should do wonders for the confidence of Bess.
Pope looks a proper player and Stokes is just obscene, best cricketer in the world.
Those two wickets at the end should do wonders for the confidence of Bess.
Pope looks a proper player and Stokes is just obscene, best cricketer in the world.
Yep. Agree with all of that.
Let's hope Wood comes through unscathed and we can pair him with Archer in the next test.
For me this is how our test team should look going forward (providing Bairstow finds some kind of form).
Burns
Sibley/Denly
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Bess
Archer
Wood
Broad
Burns
Sibley/Denly
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Bess
Archer
Wood
Broad
Absolutely pathetic decision. It was pure theatre and I saw nothing wrong with the celebration.
I don't think Bairstow will score enough runs at three, and I don't think Buttler will score enough Test runs full stop.
Archer and Wood together would be brilliant, just hope Wood can last for a while like you said.
I think Root now knows he flogged Archer too much and hopefully this elbow injury is a bit of a wakeup call. They both need to be managed carefully, Jimmy Anderson could bowl all day for every test for 15 years but he's a one off freak. Most fast bowlers break down much earlier than Jimmy seems to have.
Yeah, plus Anderson doesn't rely on pace so his body isn't put through the same strain.
My only concern is who's going to do the donkey work if we pick Wood, Stokes and Archer in the same team. They're all better in short bursts.
Maybe we'll have to replace Broad with someone like Woakes to balance out the attack. He's not as good a bowler but he's younger and should be able to bowl those long spells. And his batting is a massive bonus too.
None of the guys we've tried at three has scored big runs though. I really like Denly but he still hasn't got a century in 15 tests.
Bairstow might be a busted flush at test level but equally he might come back better. And he's a quality player when on song.
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Maddening how England dragged their feet over Burns, Sibley and Pope. Burns should have been in for the India series in 2018, Sibley should have played in the Ashes and Pope should have been at 6 from debut!
When Anderson started off and was early in his career he was marked down as a fast bowler. But he was injury prone, changed his bowling action and started to swing the ball..
Wood’s a very underrated bowler. Shame he’s so injury prone. When he’s fit he’s a scary prospect to face, up there with the best quickies currently around.
What an incredible cricketer Ben stokes is . Took the last few wickets in the last test after getting a quick 50 in the second innings to give England the extra time . Takes a billion catches in the slips. Comes here and gets a hundred . He is so good that there was barely even a mention yesterday of his 100 in this thread because stokes being amazing at everything is a given
That was really good from Bess.
Phenomenal stuff from Bess. All the 'kids' have really stepped up.
Just had a dig through the stats. For Yorkshire last season:
Maharaj: 38 wickets in 5 matches @ 19
Bess: 7 wickets in 4 matches @ 33 (26 wickets in 11 games @ 26 for the whole season).
Funny game.
Maharaj: 38 wickets in 5 matches @ 19
Bess: 7 wickets in 4 matches @ 33 (26 wickets in 11 games @ 26 for the whole season).
Funny game.
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Apparently Bess made big strides at a training camp in Sri Lanka in November working with Herath. Sometimes with young players something just clicks.
Bloody rain.
If given the option, need to enforce the follow on.
If given the option, need to enforce the follow on.
I know Foakes didn't really do much wrong last time he played test cricket but he averaged 26 in county cricket last season - hardly kicking the door down.
Covers are off but still no idea when play will restart.
Is it meant to piss it down all day tomorrow too?
Yeah he's got the spinner's role locked down now hasn't he. Another piece in the jigsaw.