Naturally KP will always stick in the mind more than Cook, it was his modus operandi after all and he did play some of the most absolutely ridiculous innings an English player has or ever will play (the fecker scored 355* as a last chance saloon for a recall FFS) but Cook is just an absolute rock and the way he's dealt with all the criticism that's come of his captaincy is mightily impressive. They are 1a and 1b to me although I never saw Gooch, Gower, Boycott etc. If his back holds up Root has the ability to surpass both of them.
English cricket 2015 - NZ, The Ashes, Pak and SA
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I think thats an interesting debate in itself, because I think what makes Cook a good batsman is more in his head than his 'natural' ability (I'm hesitant to use the word natural because KP clearly worked very hard to get where he did he was, after all, a bowler who whacked it a bit to start with).
Is the art of batsmanship just having a good technique and looking pretty, or scoring runs, no matter how you do it?
Agreed. He has the nerve & grit to put in a Cook innings when needed, and he has the shots to put in a near KP-like innings when the top order has set him up. Cook can't turn it up to 11, and KP could never play at anything other than 100mph, which worked against him at times.
I'd love to see Root still playing in 10 years time.
"Yasir Shah is expected to be fit for the second Test against England in Dubai after recovering from the back spasm which ruled him out of the opening contest. However, team manager Intikhab Alam hinted there could be a surprise addition to the squad after Pakistan's attempts to call up Zafar Gohar for this match were thwarted by visa issues."
Let this be Amir please. He has taken 30 odd wickets in the last 3-4 games he has played.
Maybe Ajmal?
Can't wait for Amir to come back, a really special talent. What he did was wrong, but I always thought he should've had a reduced punishment compared to the other 2 cnuts.
That's all there is to it, I think in professional sports there's actually very little in it talent wise but the key is the mental approach. There was a Tendulkar innings of 241 up at Sydney where he didn't play a single cover drive because he'd nick'd on a few times playing that shot, it's about accepting your strengths and limitations and playing relentlessly within them which separates the top, top batsmen. I think Root said his upturn in form was related to him batting more accordingly to his strengths rather than focusing on what he couldn't do.
Always thought he should be banned for life.
His suspension is up? He was so young, what a stupid thing to do. But @Tommy is right, match fixing should get an automatic life sentence. Its even worse than doping imo.
Isn't it pretty much the same thing?
"Yasir Shah is expected to be fit for the second Test against England in Dubai after recovering from the back spasm which ruled him out of the opening contest. However, team manager Intikhab Alam hinted there could be a surprise addition to the squad after Pakistan's attempts to call up Zafar Gohar for this match were thwarted by visa issues."
Let this be Amir please. He has taken 30 odd wickets in the last 3-4 games he has played.
Thats a shame, gohar is an interesting prospect. Much rather him than asad shafiq/imran khan/rahat ali,etc.
Not that I am defending doping, but with that you are doing it to win, with match fixing you are basically going there to alter the match, and in the extreme cases going out to lose on purpose. It kills the whole reason of sport, competitiveness.
Again, I am not defending dpoing. If I was in charge , Match fixing would get a life time ban, and doping a 10 year ban.
Doping is effectively a life ban for a professional athlete. Which I'm totally alright with. Doping is incredible hard to keep ontop of accurately, and I'm of the mindset that the punishments should get progressively stiffer over time, as right now, handing out 10 year bans for those guilty would probably end most sports teams as we know them
Still, talent or not, match fixing is unacceptable, and should be a life ban regardless of circumstance.
Doping is artificially altering the results just like match fixing, conversely bowling a no-ball for specific moment to help a bookie win money might not actually have any effect on the match as a whole even if it is morally unacceptable. In Amir's case, as a 18 year-old not long out of Pakistan, I think he deserves another chance. The key is education for players like Amir.
The 10 year ban is quite stiff , but they would learn. Add another 15-20 for the next offence and it would deter the Gaitlins of this world.Doping is effectively a life ban for a professional athlete. Which I'm totally alright with. Doping is incredible hard to keep ontop of accurately, and I'm of the mindset that the punishments should get progressively stiffer over time, as right now, handing out 10 year bans for those guilty would probably end most sports teams as we know them
Still, talent or not, match fixing is unacceptable, and should be a life ban regardless of circumstance.
Exactly, spot fixing or even result fixing, the punishment should be life.
Doping is effectively a life ban for a professional athlete. Which I'm totally alright with. Doping is incredible hard to keep ontop of accurately, and I'm of the mindset that the punishments should get progressively stiffer over time, as right now, handing out 10 year bans for those guilty would probably end most sports teams as we know them
Still, talent or not, match fixing is unacceptable, and should be a life ban regardless of circumstance.
He bowled one no ball, that didnt really affect the outcome of the match. In Asif's and Butts' case, I completely agree that both should have been given life bans, not suspended five year sentences. But Aamir's case is a bit different, given his young age.
Both are very bad though, but perhaps doping is altering yourself while the latter is altering the sport itself. Its not a good debate I am putting here as both actions are deplorable, but I feel that the punishments for both should be quite severe.
Even if its just spot fixing, I feel the consequence should be severe, to prevent even worse from occurring.
He could've taken a wicket with that ball if he'd tried. We'll never know now.
Age shouldn't come into it. A strict marker has to be put down for other people in the sport to look towards, and I'd bet anything I own on the vast majority of young players being more deterred if they saw Amir get a life ban than just a short ban.
Amir is busy picking up fines for on-field spats. I doubt he is the 'surprise'
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/story/929113.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/story/929113.html
Age should come into it, we've all made bad and impulsive decisions as young men. An educated Amir is of far much use to world cricket than a banned one, he can spread his education and serve the game very well potentially. There is no guarantee that life bans will stop a young man thinking he's a bit smarter than Amir and won't get caught but if Amir can mentor the young man he could nip such transgressions in the bud. Education is the key with young players, guys like Butt should definitely know better. I suppose if the youngster is coercing and leading an effort in fixing then lifetime bans should be considered, in the case of Amir I don't think that was the case.
That wasnt my point.
Using performance-enhancing drugs to achieve better results, cheat for the sake of money and fame = 10 years. Bowling two no-balls in a Test match that had absolutely no bearing on the final result of the match = Life sentence.
What a fantastic logic.
My point was match fixing in general. It just silly because doping itself can arise from something like eating contaminated food. I was obviously comparing the two generally . No need for the sarcastic jibes.
Obviously age comes into it, younger people are more likely to make stupid decisions which they will regret in the future. And this not someone in his early 20s either but was an eighteen year old kid not from the best background. So would obviously be more influenced by his captain and striker partner.
You make a good point, but as an 18 year old representing his country, he should know enough to know the difference between right and wrong.
He'd be of more use in a teaching capacity than in playing capacity. If he's selected this year, all that's saying to me is "do it while you're young or near the end. You'll be back soon enough, don't worry about it." If he's never selected again, that lesson would be more educational to those looking to bend the rules than anything he can teach while taking to the field.
Perhaps the ICC could employ him to talk to young players across the globe... I'd be alright with that. But playing again? Sorry, I'll always be against that. If Coutinho missed an open goal in an attempt to satisfy a criminal third party, then I'd want him life-banned at the first possible point (I know it's not an entirely fair comparison because a goal is worth immeasurably more than a no-ball, but still, I can't stand cheating).
Gatlin should've got a life ban the first time around. Higgins should've got a life ban for his antics, and Amir should never play again.
People make mistakes, you have to deal with it on a case by case basis because not everything in life is absolute. In the case of Amir the ICC were satisfied that he was coerced by senior members. Life bans are not a guarantee either, they won't stop someone from thinking they are smarter than the last chap who tried it.
Which is why employing him as an expert wouldn't be a terrible idea. Beats letting him play again.
And why should Amir agree to something like that? It would be humiliating enough to have his career snatched away from him at 18, never mind making him relieve one bad decision for the rest of his life just to serve the interests of the ICC.
5 year ban was about right. Significant enough in terms of playing time, but he's still young enough to get past it. One of the few things the ICC got bang on IMO.
What's the alternative? Working in a factory in Pakistan? If he couldn't play, the job opportunity would be one of (if not) the best he'd ever have.
I don't think the best way to rebuild a young man's life is by constantly reminding him of the decision he made that made him have to rebuild.
And I don't think it's in the sports best interest to let anyone off with such a charge.
This has been debated for years, and no side has ever, or ever will agree with the other
Don't think we'll start here.And I don't think it's in the sports best interest to let anyone off with such a charge.
This has been debated for years, and no side has ever, or ever will agree with the other
Good thing we have a governing body that agrees with me then
.Good thing we have a governing body that agrees with me then
True. Perhaps fate will agree with me and he'll do what McGrath did in 05
True. Perhaps fate will agree with me and he'll do what McGrath did in 05
Amir in England next summer. Can't wait.
I'd add Butt and Asif as well for that tour only just for the troll factor.
Amir in England next summer. Can't wait.
I'd add Butt and Asif as well for that tour only just for the troll factor.
Brilliant, brilliant talent, I'm not denying that, but that shouldn't factor into the decision at all... I hope it didn't.
Doubt it was because of the talent. Age (lack of understanding, naivety) was certainly a factor but mostly level of involvement I guess. If he had been the mastermind behind the spot fixing then he wouldn't have been given the leeway. As it turns out he was only a pawn in their game.
In the end it probably doesn't matter as all three served the same punishment. Internationally at least, Amir has been back in domestic cricket since March.
This is dull from England. Declare already and give yourself most possible time to bowl out Pakistan.
Dull? England? Hah.
But yeah, we need to get them on ASAP. Just swing for sixes and see what happens.
But yeah, we need to get them on ASAP. Just swing for sixes and see what happens.
Wicket or two by lunch and who knows!
Jimmy may have found a bunny.That wiill do
That's the last we've seen of Masood hopefully. If you're not going to get runs on this pitch then you might as well just retire from international cricket.