England in India 2021

Also this is no different to how Sam Curran bailed England out a few years back. Thats the nature of both these wickets and test cricket.
 
Utd heap said:
Another issue for Bess is he is now at Yorkshire.

You know that notorious ground for spinners - Headingley.
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He's gone there to get more first-team opportunities (Leach is the other spinner at Somerset) and try to learn his craft on a pitch that offers less assistance to spin. Swann did something similar when he left Northants before breaking into the England side.

England will continue to back Bess. They clearly see him as a good all-round prospect and there's nobody else who can do the job they want the spinner to do.

Yes Leach is clearly better than him right now, and maybe Virdi is too. But Bess is a much better batsman than both of them and when England play at home they need the spinner to be able to bat at no.8 so they can play three specialist seamers.

Unless someone comes along who can bowl spin and bat I think they'll persist with Bess.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I said it before but we're in the day and age of bowlers. Batting isn't anywhere near as easy as it was previously. These are Indias best and, for now, they're not going anywhere.
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Well it's not as difficult either as you can see the middle to lower order are showing it . As I said if you are winning things people don't really look that deeply , this is the same thing that happened to India's big 4-5 in 2011 .

That Sam Curran thing is actually another example as it allowed some of the English top order failures extra time before they were eventually dropped
 
On the plus side, no need to wake up early tomorrow so the jack daniels can be consumed.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Well it's not as difficult either as you can see the middle to lower order are showing it . As I said if you are winning things people don't really look that deeply , this is the same thing that happened to India's big 4-5 in 2011 .

That Sam Curran thing is actually another example as it allowed some of the English top order failures extra time before they were eventually dropped
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Not entirely true as only Cook retired and Jennings was dropped, the rest have remained.

Rohits had a great series, Gill, Pujara and Rahane were very good in Australia. Kohlis not been terrible either on bowler friendly wickets. Hardly a cause for concern.
 
I don't really see what optimism I'm supposed to have for Bess. Usually, when a spinner lacks control like he does it's because they're a big turner of the ball and need to work on landing it consistently, but Bess doesn't get much action on it either - in fact I believe his first stint in the England team was followed by a spin camp somewhere to work on his release to try and get more revs on the ball.

He's supposed to be pretty unflappable and stranger things have happened, but it seems to me that he needs to improve on virtually every aspect of being a spinner.
 
Our middle order was fine in Australia. They've been average this match but some of the takes here are horrendous.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I don't really see what optimism I'm supposed to have for Bess. Usually, when a spinner lacks control like he does it's because they're a big turner of the ball and need to work on landing it consistently, but Bess doesn't get much action on it either - in fact I believe his first stint in the England team was followed by a spin camp somewhere to work on his release to try and get more revs on the ball.

He's supposed to be pretty unflappable and stranger things have happened, but it seems to me that he needs to improve on virtually every aspect of being a spinner.
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Yeah it's very weird. The bloke keeps on bowling a full toss and even when he pitches it right I don't see any thing special.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Not entirely true as only Cook retired and Jennings was dropped, the rest have remained.

Rohits had a great series, Gill, Pujara and Rahane were very good in Australia. Kohlis not been terrible either on bowler friendly wickets. Hardly a cause for concern.
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Fair enough. We clearly have different standards for very good I guess . Rahane had one 50+ score in Australia in 8 Innings and one in this series . Pujara averaged 33 in that series and averages 22 in this one . As I keep saying it doesn't show up when you are winning which India obviously are because they are overall still the strongest team
 
NinjaFletch said:
I don't really see what optimism I'm supposed to have for Bess. Usually, when a spinner lacks control like he does it's because they're a big turner of the ball and need to work on landing it consistently, but Bess doesn't get much action on it either - in fact I believe his first stint in the England team was followed by a spin camp somewhere to work on his release to try and get more revs on the ball.

He's supposed to be pretty unflappable and stranger things have happened, but it seems to me that he needs to improve on virtually every aspect of being a spinner.
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He does get a reasonable amount of turn and his flight is decent too.

He's definitely an all-round package at present. If you look at all our recent spinners apart from Panesar (who was an exceptional bowler), they've all been able to bat at 8 - Croft, Giles, Swann and Moeen. That's clearly the English template and Bess is the only one who fits it at present.

My theory is that England think the domestic system is a joke and they don't trust the county sides to develop any good spinners, so they've basically plucked a young player they like the look of and are hoping he learns on the job.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
The third session swung the match back in India's favour - very unexpectedly. We were 146-6 at one stage.
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While I thought India were in big trouble at that point, still felt that both Washington and Axar could hold up one end while allowing Pant to do his thing.
 
It's amazing how Pant has grown despite the horrendous mismanagement of him by Shastri and Kohli. Must have ridiculous amount of self-belief.
 
sport2793 said:
Yep ironically the Aussies arguably recognized this before India's own management.
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They were more interested in finding a 3D player that they forgot to include Pant in the original 50 over WC squad. Imagine having pant, ishan kishan and pandya as our finishers in t20s.
 
sport2793 said:
Yep ironically the Aussies arguably recognized this before India's own management.
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Imo we had two absolute incredible talents in Kuldeep and Pant. Pant has found his way back without any help from team management. Kuldeep has lost it unfortunately.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Fair enough. We clearly have different standards for very good I guess . Rahane had one 50+ score in Australia in 8 Innings and one in this series . Pujara averaged 33 in that series and averages 22 in this one . As I keep saying it doesn't show up when you are winning which India obviously are because they are overall still the strongest team
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I mean, you have to take into account the quality of the attack especially with someone like Cummins and the fact they were in their home conditions. These weren't exactly high scoring matches.
 
KM said:
Imo we had two absolute incredible talents in Kuldeep and Pant. Pant has found his way back without any help from team management. Kuldeep has lost it unfortunately.
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Do you think Kuldeep is finished or can he still find his way? After all he's still only 26.
 
AshRK said:
They were more interested in finding a 3D player that they forgot to include Pant in the original 50 over WC squad. Imagine having pant, ishan kishan and pandya as our finishers in t20s.
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Yep the fact Pant missed out initially at the WC was a total shambles by the selectors, bunch of clowns who should have been sacked on the spot. Credit to Ponting and Delhi for continuing to back him in the media and ever since really, am sure that has helped.
 
sport2793 said:
Do you think Kuldeep is finished or can he still find his way? After all he's still only 26.
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I feel he has to leave KKR and join a different franchise in IPL. He was a top bowler and had a great aussie tour in 2018. His combo with chahal was so good and then IPL 2019 happened and kohli broke the KulCha combination. The talent is still there and he is young so won't be surprised if he does a pant but he needs to have a good IPL but seems KKR management don't rate or trust him.
 
sport2793 said:
Yep ironically the Aussies arguably recognized this before India's own management.
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I'm saying it for years now. The way he plays cricket is a joy to watch, fearless and very aggressive.
 
sport2793 said:
Yep ironically the Aussies arguably recognized this before India's own management.
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The Aussies have been on the Pant bandwagon for many years.

Easier to see that from the outside than inside, where the Dhoni crowd kept trying to find flaws in Pant's batting or keeping to keep him out for as long as they did.

If India wins this test, there is an argument that he might be best player in test cricket so far this year. Saved a test, won a test, almost saved another test, won a test.
 
Which was the ground where Indian fans were cheering Pant's keeping errors and shouting "Dhoni, Dhoni" constantly?
 
sport2793 said:
I mean, you have to take into account the quality of the attack especially with someone like Cummins and the fact they were in their home conditions. These weren't exactly high scoring matches.
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That's fair enough but the lower middle order has scored runs in the same conditions & attacks . Labuschagne averaged 50 odd in the series & even Piggy Smith who had a bad time averaged 44. This is not relative to other teams though . Most of these batsmen would walk in to the English team but more because India has insane batting depth in the wings
 
SinNombre said:
Which was the ground where Indian fans were cheering Pant's keeping errors and shouting "Dhoni, Dhoni" constantly?
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Hate this cult following. I have a huge admiration for Dhoni and a big fan myself but the DhoniFC crowd is worse than Martial FC.
 
At 80/4 against most batsmen England would have attacked but Pant has an aura now and England just like they have done with the pitches for most of the series played the man rather than the situation in front of them . They allowed him to settle with easy singles in the worry that he can take the game away quickly but Pant is smarter than most people give him credit for and he happily milked the bowling for an easy 30. There is a reason he tends to get a lot of 25+ scores and that's because teams are so frightened of him hitting over the top . I remember listening to the tailenders podcast with Anderson after the Gabba test and he had such nice things to say about Pant . He got a first hand experience now
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
At 80/4 against most batsmen England would have attacked but Pant has an aura now and England just like they have done with the pitches for most of the series played the man rather than the situation in front of them . They allowed him to settle with easy singles in the worry that he can take the game away quickly but Pant is smarter than most people give him credit for and he happily milked the bowling for an easy 30. There is a reason he tends to get a lot of 25+ scores and that's because teams are so frightened of him hitting over the top . I remember listening to the tailenders podcast with Anderson after the Gabba test and he had such nice things to say about Pant . He got a first hand experience now
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are you ok? will you be supporting India again now?
 
Looking forward to the summer tour of England. The depth of this Indian squad is scary and I feel irrespective of what pitch we have, india have players to do well. My concern is the batting, we would need rahane kohli pujara firing or we will struggle.
 
Tubby is a great watch. I'm officially a fan. He brings Sehwag with refinements which is quite annoying and awesome simultaneously
 
zing said:
are you ok? will you be supporting India again now?
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All of You seem to really like me so should follow me on twitter to get more such content . It's @Ayushxa . No I will not be supporting India again . Being from Delhi I have always supported Delhi in the IPL and I have been a huge Rishabh Pant fan from his u19 times.
 
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