England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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Rojofiam said:
Absolutely not, that's just the general consensus based on Foden having just had his best season yet
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Agree to disagree. Foden playing in a better team and thus being not in the top 3 of his team is not a reason why he’d be worse than Saka. Plus I would maybe say that Ødegaard, Rice and Saliba are Arsenal’s best/most important players.

Foden is more consistent, better in big games, technically better, has better G/A and is more versatile.
 
Rojofiam said:
I love how suddenly this is a "what have you been smoking" type of opinion, just because Foden's had a better season than usual :lol: Saka has had two seasons at least on par with Foden's 23/24 campaign, is way more important for his club, way more important for his country, and he's a natural right winger as well. That's his best position. Foden has to be shoehorned into the 11 every time people try to make a case for him. The truth is he's not even part of their best 11, unless you go FIFPro World 11 style and just put the biggest names into the team, totally disregarding team balance, roles, and profiles .
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I’ve never seen someone go missing in big games such as Saka. Foden doesn’t have to be shoehorned anywhere. It’s about finding the balance with Bellingham in there as well. Agree to disagree on that.
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
Needs one of Wharton and Mainoo to step up cause it still looks like a team that's gonna meet a top side and not see any of the ball in midfield, especially as I'd expect Gallagher to start with Rice. Feels like a squad with less moaning about selections than there has been for a while though think Southgates got it largely right
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I think Mainoo will be given the opportunity to start but Gallagher will be one of the first off the bench and there to step in if Mainoo struggles. I don't think Wharton will get any meaningful minutes, even if he makes the final cut.
 
Rojofiam said:
"To anyone who understands the game"

So, can you give me a thorough explanation as to why Foden is a better player, or a superior talent? I'm sure he looks fancier carrying the ball, than Saka, but in the things that actually matter, Saka is ahead.
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He can play centrally and on the wing.

He was always a central player but it needed KDB to get injured to show how talented he is. His first touch is miles ahead of Saka. He has better vision, technique, better shot. The list goes on.

Put Saka centrally and he cannot do what Foden can.
Saka is an incredibly effective player at what he does and a really good player but Foden is another level.
 
Jordan_mufc said:
Did you mean Shaw at LB? If so, how does that free up the other players?

Grealish at LB is a mad shout
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No, I mean Shaw at LW in attack and LB on defence. Shift between the ubiquitous 3-2-5/4-4-2 formations from attack to defence. Bellingham plays LM on defence, Foden next to Kane as the second striker. In attack you have Shaw LW, Bellingham and Foden behind Kane in the middle and Saka on the right
 
Rojofiam said:
The issue here is not only you're wrong, but your reasoning is wrong as well. Saka has had another consistently excellent season, being a top 3 most important player for a title challenger team (Rice and Saliba the other 2 this season). Same thing happened last season. Foden doesn't have as much impact at City, and neither is he as important to them as De Bruyne, Haaland, or Rodri. Their numbers are similar. A lot of people choose Foden just because everything he does is aesthetic and pleases the eye. I think that might be the case with you as well. However, Saka is the better player. By the way, had Bellingham went to City, he would have been more important for them as well.

Your reasoning against Kane also stinks.



Absolutely not, that's just the general consensus based on Foden having just had his best season yet
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So you're saying Foden looks a better player and has also scored more goals and about the same assists as Saka, but Saka is definitely better? I don't see how you reach that conclusion, sorry.

I don't think Bellingham would suit Man City the way Foden does either.

Also just comparing what's happened this calendar year (when the pressure is on and every game has added importance), Foden has 18 goals and 3 assists in all competitions, compared to Saka with 11 goals 3 assists, and Bellingham with 6 goals and 5 assists. And a few of those Saka goals were penalties, whereas none of Foden's have been if I'm not mistaken.
 
TheGame said:
Are you suggesting Grealish at LB? :lol:
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He's done that at times for City, though admittedly as an extra LB, so...the alternatives aren't exactly straight forward either. Of all the LW options he's the only one I've seen putting serious defensive shifts against great teams...

If you go with a defender like Gomez for example, you either lose attacking width, or quality, or you are forced to play Foden or Bellingham in a much reduced role. Trippier might work but he's right footed and risk slowing down the attack, so still not ideal...
 
Frank Grimes said:
Put Saka centrally and he cannot do what Foden can.
Saka is an incredibly effective player at what he does and a really good player but Foden is another level.
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I'm not saying he's better at it than Foden, but arteta has played Saka as a 10 and he's actually quite good in that role. He's a very intelligent player and a great passer. If it was his full time position, i'm positive that he'd be great at it. He also played left back early in his career in some emergency situations and he excelled there too.
 
TheGame said:
No sorry can’t see that at all. He would be hopeless defensively and with tacking and positioning.
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Again, he's demonstrated the exact opposite for City, which is why he's a mainstay of Pep's lineup in the difficult CL games this season and last

If he starts at LB something's gone terribly wrong though
 
Rojofiam said:
"To anyone who understands the game"

So, can you give me a thorough explanation as to why Foden is a better player, or a superior talent? I'm sure he looks fancier carrying the ball, than Saka, but in the things that actually matter, Saka is ahead.
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Saka had his best scoring season with 20 goals in all competitions, but 6 of them were penalties, so that's a factor.

Foden scored 27 goals in all competitions, and 0 of them were by penalty. Had Foden inflated that number with high probability penalties he'd have been in the 30s

Foden has had a more effective and higher G+A contributing season than Saka has ever had, and done so without the help of gimmes in the form of penalties.

Foden has been clutch in game winning moments that has led them to winning the title by the merest of margins. Quite literally City do not win the league by relying on Haaland's contributions, nor De Bruyne's.
 
adexkola said:
Southgate saying Shaw is a long shot

Is England that bare at LB? If his fitness is a big doubt, why bother? Trippier or Gomez isn't bad but meh
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Feels like he is giving him two weeks to prove fitness for the tournament, however a very risky situation being so threadbare at LB
 
Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Crystal Palace), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Arsenal),


Defenders: Jarrad Branthwaite (Everton), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Marc Guehi (Crystal Palace), Ezri Konsa (Aston Villa), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Newcastle), Kyle Walker (Manchester City).

Midfielders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Conor Gallagher (Chelsea), Kobbie Mainoo (Manchester United), Declan Rice (Arsenal), Adam Wharton (Crystal Palace).

Forwards: Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid), Eberechi Eze (Crystal Palace), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jack Grealish (Manchester City), Anthony Gordon (Newcastle), Harry Kane (Bayern Munich), Cole Palmer (Chelsea), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).


Out: James Trafford (Burnley), Lewis Dunk (Brighton), Jarell Quansah (Liverpool), James Maddison (Tottenham), Ivan Toney (Brentford), Curtis Jones (Liverpool), Jarrod Bowen (West Ham).

Trafford, - 4th keeper out
Dunk, - plenty of cb options. Struggled for England.
Quansah, - many better options
Maddison, - form been off, Foden, Bellingham, Eze all ahead of him in that position.
Toney, - shown nothing since his return.
Jones, - odd man out.
Bowen, - unlucky to miss out, but who do you drop for him? Saka, Palmer and Foen can all play off the right. Could go instead of Eze, as he’s a more direct runner, which is useful when chasing games. But Eze is more versatile, and has a bigger future for England.

The squad is top heavy, so mainly forwards/attacking midfielders getting cut.

I’d be surprised if it was anything else, barring injuries.
 
He’s made some good calls, but some of the inclusions remain laughable as usual.

There are competent left backs available. I am a big Shaw advocate but he has no place here on merit. Trippier should not be there either.

The big question marks are on Eze and Mainoo and whether either of them are close to starting. There’s a massive case for Eze, and a fair case for Mainoo.
 
simonhch said:
Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Crystal Palace), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Arsenal),


Defenders: Jarrad Branthwaite (Everton), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Marc Guehi (Crystal Palace), Ezri Konsa (Aston Villa), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Newcastle), Kyle Walker (Manchester City).

Midfielders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Conor Gallagher (Chelsea), Kobbie Mainoo (Manchester United), Declan Rice (Arsenal), Adam Wharton (Crystal Palace).

Forwards: Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid), Eberechi Eze (Crystal Palace), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jack Grealish (Manchester City), Anthony Gordon (Newcastle), Harry Kane (Bayern Munich), Cole Palmer (Chelsea), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).


Out: James Trafford (Burnley), Lewis Dunk (Brighton), Jarell Quansah (Liverpool), James Maddison (Tottenham), Ivan Toney (Brentford), Curtis Jones (Liverpool), Jarrod Bowen (West Ham).

Trafford, - 4th keeper out
Dunk, - plenty of cb options. Struggled for England.
Quansah, - many better options
Maddison, - form been off, Foden, Bellingham, Eze all ahead of him in that position.
Toney, - shown nothing since his return.
Jones, - odd man out.
Bowen, - unlucky to miss out, but who do you drop for him? Saka, Palmer and Foen can all play off the right. Could go instead of Eze, as he’s a more direct runner, which is useful when chasing games. But Eze is more versatile, and has a bigger future for England.

The squad is top heavy, so mainly forwards/attacking midfielders getting cut.

I’d be surprised if it was anything else, barring injuries.
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Bowen is the best off ball runner england have got with Jude and Watkins, and the only one who can play from the right. Far too useful to drop imo. If Shaw is fit, there is no need for both Branthwaite and Guehi. Pick one. If not, you drop him
 
It’s a great attack, but no real depth in midfield, quite a poor selection of centre backs and no fit left back at all.

It’s a Rice/Stones knock away from disaster and I can’t see the other big teams in the competition not taking advantage of those frailties.

I think it’s optimistic to say it’s coming home when there are several more balanced sides in the competition.

The one area you don’t want to be light on is defensively and both Englands defenders and potential shielding players are paper thin.
 
top1whoisman said:
Agree to disagree. Foden playing in a better team and thus being not in the top 3 of his team is not a reason why he’d be worse than Saka. Plus I would maybe say that Ødegaard, Rice and Saliba are Arsenal’s best/most important players.

Foden is more consistent, better in big games, technically better, has better G/A and is more versatile.
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Sorry, but what? One of the biggest and best traits of Saka is his consistency.

Big games

Foden has 4 G/A in games against the "traditional" top 6 this season, with 3 of them coming against an awful United side. They would've cruised through both of those games without him. Against Newcastle and Villa, 4 G/A, and a goal in the Bernabeu.

Saka contributed vs United at home, both Spurs games, both Chelsea games, and Liverpool at home. The only game where he wasn't really needed is Chelsea at home. Also scored vs Newcastle and Bayern.

Saka wins the big game debate easily this season.

Technically, Foden might be better, but that's usually heavily overstated as Foden's movement and playstyle just looks aesthetically better.

Regarding versatility, Saka is a right winger. Foden only plays a lot there, because there are better players centrally at both City and England. :D Sure, Foden is better centrally, but Saka is the better winger.
 
simonhch said:
Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Crystal Palace), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Arsenal),


Defenders: Jarrad Branthwaite (Everton), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Marc Guehi (Crystal Palace), Ezri Konsa (Aston Villa), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Newcastle), Kyle Walker (Manchester City).

Midfielders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Conor Gallagher (Chelsea), Kobbie Mainoo (Manchester United), Declan Rice (Arsenal), Adam Wharton (Crystal Palace).

Forwards: Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid), Eberechi Eze (Crystal Palace), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jack Grealish (Manchester City), Anthony Gordon (Newcastle), Harry Kane (Bayern Munich), Cole Palmer (Chelsea), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).


Out: James Trafford (Burnley), Lewis Dunk (Brighton), Jarell Quansah (Liverpool), James Maddison (Tottenham), Ivan Toney (Brentford), Curtis Jones (Liverpool), Jarrod Bowen (West Ham).

Trafford, - 4th keeper out
Dunk, - plenty of cb options. Struggled for England.
Quansah, - many better options
Maddison, - form been off, Foden, Bellingham, Eze all ahead of him in that position.
Toney, - shown nothing since his return.
Jones, - odd man out.
Bowen, - unlucky to miss out, but who do you drop for him? Saka, Palmer and Foen can all play off the right. Could go instead of Eze, as he’s a more direct runner, which is useful when chasing games. But Eze is more versatile, and has a bigger future for England.

The squad is top heavy, so mainly forwards/attacking midfielders getting cut.

I’d be surprised if it was anything else, barring injuries.
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I think I'd drop Eze since Foden, Palmer and Bellingham are all ahead of him as 10s and Mainoo and Gallagher can play there (Kane too if you're chasing a game and want to play Watkins up top).

Probably just take Toney for penalties. More likely England lose on penalties with someone missing than anything else the 26th man in the squad can do, and if Kane gets hurt, wouldn't be shocked if Watkins struggles as the #9 from the start.
 
SirBillNic said:
So you're saying Foden looks a better player and has also scored more goals and about the same assists as Saka, but Saka is definitely better? I don't see how you reach that conclusion, sorry.

I don't think Bellingham would suit Man City the way Foden does either.

Also just comparing what's happened this calendar year (when the pressure is on and every game has added importance), Foden has 18 goals and 3 assists in all competitions, compared to Saka with 11 goals 3 assists, and Bellingham with 6 goals and 5 assists. And a few of those Saka goals were penalties, whereas none of Foden's have been if I'm not mistaken.
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Bellingham would've taken a deeper role that was Gundogan's. Not a #10/#9 at times like he has at Madrid. And he would've smashed it at City, just wouldn't have been scoring so many goals.
 
Rojofiam said:
Sorry, but what? One of the biggest and best traits of Saka is his consistency.

Big games

Foden has 4 G/A in games against the "traditional" top 6 this season, with 3 of them coming against an awful United side. They would've cruised through both of those games without him. Against Newcastle and Villa, 4 G/A, and a goal in the Bernabeu.

Saka contributed vs United at home, both Spurs games, both Chelsea games, and Liverpool at home. The only game where he wasn't really needed is Chelsea at home. Also scored vs Newcastle and Bayern.

Saka wins the big game debate easily this season.

Technically, Foden might be better, but that's usually heavily overstated as Foden's movement and playstyle just looks aesthetically better.

Regarding versatility, Saka is a right winger. Foden only plays a lot there, because there are better players centrally at both City and England. :D Sure, Foden is better centrally, but Saka is the better winger.
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Regarding the bolded: as is Foden’s.

Saka one goal in four CL knockout games this season.

Foden two goals and an assist in three.

You used Foden’s numbers against the traditional top 6. Then just say Saka contributed. For the record I think he had 6 g/a. Not that much more I’d say.

You said this season is the only reason someone would rate Foden higher. So go and compare the numbers for other seasons too.

At some stage one must stop using the ”traditional top 6” and perhaps use top 4/6 for each season.

Saka has never outscored Foden. Out of the six seasons he’s once had a bigger contribution in terms of g/a.
 
Maluco said:
It’s a great attack, but no real depth in midfield, quite a poor selection of centre backs and no fit left back at all.

It’s a Rice/Stones knock away from disaster and I can’t see the other big teams in the competition not taking advantage of those frailties.

I think it’s optimistic to say it’s coming home when there are several more balanced sides in the competition.

The one area you don’t want to be light on is defensively and both Englands defenders and potential shielding players are paper thin.
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Yeah, I would be tempted to go Germany 2014 and pick Branthwaite or Guehi at LB and have them sit off. Stones can step forward a bit, so like this I guess:

----------------------------------Kane--------------------------
Grealish/Gordon---------Foden------------------Saka
-----------------------Jude-----------------------------------
----------------------------------------Rice-------------------
------------------------Stones---------------------------
Branthwaite----------------Konsa-----------Walker-----
------------------------------------Pickford------------------------

or:

----------------------------------Kane--------------------------
Grealish/Gordon---------Bellingham------------------Saka
-----------------------Wharton----------------Rice-------------------
Branthwaite------Stones----------Konsa-----------Walker-----
------------------------------------Pickford------------------------

At least the defenders can all move (no Maguire) and Foden is central. Wingers put in a shift. Not gonna win in style, but this is maybe what say Deschamps would do. Make sure the team is solid and then hope Kane, Saka, Bellingham and whoever turns out to be the 4th attacker (Foden or Palmer most talent, but maybe need someone actually comfortable at LW so Gordon's running or Grealish providing a bit of pausa since the midfield doesn't really have much if Mainoo isn't out there, and I don't trust him off the ball at all yet).
 
top1whoisman said:
Regarding the bolded: as is Foden’s.

Saka one goal in four CL knockout games this season.

Foden two goals and an assist in three.

You used Foden’s numbers against the traditional top 6. Then just say Saka contributed. For the record I think he had 6 g/a. Not that much more I’d say.

You said this season is the only reason someone would rate Foden higher. So go and compare the numbers for other seasons too.

At some stage one must stop using the ”traditional top 6” and perhaps use top 4/6 for each season.

Saka has never outscored Foden. Out of the six seasons he’s once had a bigger contribution in terms of g/a.
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I think this is all meaningless. Foden is the better #10, Saka the better RW.
 
top1whoisman said:
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No trophy this time either. There are no leaders in that team except maybe Kane and Maguire. Once again open central midfield where opposition will have freeway. And goalkeeper situation where you wonder how a country that loves football can't develop some bigger talent there. Lot of technical attacking players but that will not be that useful because lot of them will play and lot of them are liability in their defensive game.
 
90 + 5min said:
No trophy this time either. There are no leaders in that team except maybe Kane and Maguire. Once again open central midfield where opposition will have freeway. And goalkeeper situation where you wonder how a country that loves football can't develop some bigger talent there. Lot of technical attacking players but that will not be that useful because lot of them will play and lot of them are liability in their defensive game.
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Pickford has been excellent for England for a while now. If someone partners Rice with Bellingham ahead then no, there will not be an open midfield. Defence is a worry but hopefully we can pick a defence that performs.
 
I'm in shock. Southgate didn't bottle it this time.

Maddison should not make the full squad and it's funny that Bellingham is now a forward :lol: .
 
90 + 5min said:
No trophy this time either. There are no leaders in that team except maybe Kane and Maguire. Once again open central midfield where opposition will have freeway. And goalkeeper situation where you wonder how a country that loves football can't develop some bigger talent there. Lot of technical attacking players but that will not be that useful because lot of them will play and lot of them are liability in their defensive game.
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Do you think Bellingham and Rice will get overrun in midfield?

Also, which out of Kane, Foden, Grealish, Saka, etc are a liability in their defensive game?

Also, Bellingham, Walker, Rice have shown lots of leadership qualities.
 
giorno said:
No, I mean Shaw at LW in attack and LB on defence. Shift between the ubiquitous 3-2-5/4-4-2 formations from attack to defence. Bellingham plays LM on defence, Foden next to Kane as the second striker. In attack you have Shaw LW, Bellingham and Foden behind Kane in the middle and Saka on the right
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This is essentially what City do now Gvaridol when Kovacic plays and might get the best out of a Foden/Bellingham pair as 10.

Something like attacking with
-------------------------------Pickford------------------------------
Walker------------Stones------------Maguire---------------
-----------------------Mainoo----Rice------------------Shaw
Saka-----------Bellingham-------Foden-------------------
---------------------------------Kane--------------------------------

Without the ball flat 442/451
 
padr81 said:
This is essentially what City do now Gvaridol when Kovacic plays and might get the best out of a Foden/Bellingham pair as 10.
Something like attacking with
-------------------------------Pickford------------------------------
Walker------------Stones------------Maguire---------------
-----------------------Mainoo----Rice------------------Shaw
Saka-----------Bellingham-------Foden-------------------
---------------------------------Kane--------------------------------
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This won't work - England do not have the time to prepare nor does southgate have the ability to prepare intricate passing players and possessional dominance in movement patterns.
 
simonhch said:
Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Crystal Palace), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Arsenal),


Defenders: Jarrad Branthwaite (Everton), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Marc Guehi (Crystal Palace), Ezri Konsa (Aston Villa), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Newcastle), Kyle Walker (Manchester City).

Midfielders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Conor Gallagher (Chelsea), Kobbie Mainoo (Manchester United), Declan Rice (Arsenal), Adam Wharton (Crystal Palace).

Forwards: Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid), Eberechi Eze (Crystal Palace), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jack Grealish (Manchester City), Anthony Gordon (Newcastle), Harry Kane (Bayern Munich), Cole Palmer (Chelsea), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).


Out: James Trafford (Burnley), Lewis Dunk (Brighton), Jarell Quansah (Liverpool), James Maddison (Tottenham), Ivan Toney (Brentford), Curtis Jones (Liverpool), Jarrod Bowen (West Ham).

Trafford, - 4th keeper out
Dunk, - plenty of cb options. Struggled for England.
Quansah, - many better options
Maddison, - form been off, Foden, Bellingham, Eze all ahead of him in that position.
Toney, - shown nothing since his return.
Jones, - odd man out.
Bowen, - unlucky to miss out, but who do you drop for him? Saka, Palmer and Foen can all play off the right. Could go instead of Eze, as he’s a more direct runner, which is useful when chasing games. But Eze is more versatile, and has a bigger future for England.

The squad is top heavy, so mainly forwards/attacking midfielders getting cut.

I’d be surprised if it was anything else, barring injuries.
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Toney should go because feel he has that ice cold mentality in the big moments of tournaments. Think Bowen and Eze could both go if Shaw doesn't make it. I know they are completely different positions but just thinking in terms of numbers.
 
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Gibbs-white taking being left out well on Instagram. Really dislike him and hope we are never in for him.
 
Shaw is broken and wont play. And its better to take a okay left back - Mitchell - than play a CB out of position.

Maguire is shit: Dunk is shitter, neither should go

Wharton is readier than Mainoo

id take Bowen and Watkjns over Toney
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Do you think Bellingham and Rice will get overrun in midfield?

Also, which out of Kane, Foden, Grealish, Saka, etc are a liability in their defensive game?

Also, Bellingham, Walker, Rice have shown lots of leadership qualities.
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I don’t rate Rice and Bellingham have gone down in form after first one-two months. I guess Southgate could go with those two and inform Foden and thats is no central midfield that you win things with in my opinion. Team just looks inbalanced with lot of offensive players and almost all of them with very little defensive qualities.
 
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