England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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Ben White said he didn’t want to play international football.

We wil have to solve the left hand side. There are a lot of talented young options if guys like Shaw can’t stay fit.

I could see Anthony Gordon playing LWB with a back 3. By the time the next WC co es around we will (hopefully) have the issue of new players like Rico Lewis being available, Colwill and Reece James being healthy and available.

With Watkins and Toney also not young they may have to solve the future at striker. Part of me thinks, with his ability to hold the ball up and many off the back shoulder, that Bellingham in a false 9 role. Germany played beautifully with Havertz doing it, and Bellingham is leagues above. Would also solve an issue of getting as many of our best players on
 
Southgate tried to play like an "international" side, instead of taking the reigns off and setting up to play to the team's strengths. We're the only top team in the world who seems deliberately set out to play what we think is 'international-style' football.

The rest? They play to their strengths, and don't seem to have the same hang-ups that international football must be a certain thing. Nobody else seems to constrain themselves due to some imaginary international football etiquette.
 
Malons said:
Southgate tried to play like an "international" side, instead of taking the reigns off and setting up to play to the team's strengths. We're the only top team in the world who seems deliberately set out to play what we think is 'international-style' football.

The rest? They play to their strengths, and don't seem to have the same hang-ups that international football must be a certain thing. Nobody else seems to constrain themselves due to some imaginary international football etiquette.
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Very frustrating to hear everyone involved in the England camp keep talking about “this is how you win tournements”. Whilst at the same time watching Spain does the exact opposite to actually win the tournement.
 
rpitchfo said:
Very frustrating to hear everyone involved in the England camp keep talking about “this is how you win tournements”. Whilst at the same time watching Spain does the exact opposite to actually win the tournement.
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Yep. Talk of England "arrogance", when what's done for us is a misplaced inferiority complex. Ironc, in a way.
 
Zen said:
I already agree with the other players, and have done multiple times especially with Kane, if you gonna let him play like the way he did throughout the tournament - you don't play two 10's behind him, and you bring Rashford and Sterling given you have zero interest in using Bowen and Gordon.

Southgate is massively at fault for how England set up, but in terms of moving tactically... as I said, not only do all 4 of England's starting defenders today play with goalies who play like this on the Premiership level, so do the rest of the 11. Rio and the others touched upon, and this is absolutely not exclusive to Pickford, but 10 of todays starters were playing in a tactically approach almost the total opposite to how they played at club level for the most part last year, yes even Guehl, if you go with a certain tactical approach, you pick the players to suit that, not force players in a setup they aren't accustomed too.... but if most of your starters are playing one way, then surely you move towards them, and not so much the outlier, which unfortunately is heavily Pickford unless Everton massively shift tactically or he moves elsewhere - again, it's not scapegoating, unless you are Southgate :lol:

He should have taken Branthwaite, Henderson, Sterling and Rashford essentially if this was how he was going to setup almost entirely.
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Actually in the first half Pickford was picking out players quite well. He made a few very good long balls to players, a nice one to Saka, to Foden etc because there was a midfield in place to play to. When the formation shifted with Mainoo off, the shape changed considerably and it was more difficult to pick out individuals in the midfield and he was forced to try and find Watkins etc. long because of the inability of the defence and Rice to take any responsibility in terms of building from the back as they were struggling with the Spanish press.

I don't think Pickford is an elite distributor but he's really not as bad as is being made out at all. Id liken him to Martinez for Villa/Argentina. Both are elite shot stoppers and they are much better at that then any no.2 so you sacrifice a bit of the distribution to have greater safety in net. Ramsdale is probably the best distributor England have currently in net (but he's overrated at that and is only slightly better than Pickford at it) but he's nowhere near as good as a shot stopper.

You play to your tactics and your manager. Tactically Southgate is inept and none of the players are playing like they usually would really because it feels like at times they're asked to go out and be individuals rather than a team. I think Pickford becomes a scapegoat of sorts by some because he is a player picked as a weak link despite once again being a player who if England didn't have, they'd have gone home a lot earlier. He made vital saves in the group stages to keep England in games, in the knockouts and saving a penalty and again tonight with the save Vs Yamal to keep England in the game. I think once again England were decent in the keeping and defence department and sorely lacking in the attacking department. If anyone should be criticised and pointed out as a weak link it should be that front 4 who have coasted through the tournament with dire performance after dire performance.
 
DixieDean said:

Looks like he's thinking over his future. Oh goody. Would never be sacked. So, we've just got to hope he does the right thing.
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Exactly as predicted.
Pexbo said:
He will do what he did last time. “Take some time off to reflect on his decision” and then stay on.

FA have to take the decision out of his hands, he’s had more than enough chances now it’s time for a modern attacking manager that these players are used to playing under.
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Let's come for all players and pretend that not shining under a genius like Southgate is the real litmus test.

That player that is brilliant for their club? Overrated. Said it for ages.
 
It's horrible to be feeling so similarly to the last Euros final. Just a massive feeling of what if about it again. Handbrake on football is a curse I want gone, especially with the talent we have.
 
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Judas said:
It's horrible to being so similarly to the last Euros final. Just a massive feeling of what if about it again. Handbrake on football is a curse I want gone, especially with the talent we have.
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For me it feels worse than Italy. That felt unlucky. It didn't feel like an underachievement as this does.

This feels like being knocked out at the group stages. With Euro 2020 the future looked bright. Now it feels as if we've betrayed and squandered that hope. We don't feel like beaten finalists. We don't feel like runners up. This isn't disappointment pierced with optimism like vs Italy. This feels like a waste. Like failure.
 
Semifinal in 2018, England started strong, got the lead and were a better opponent in the 1st half. As the game drag on they let Croatia the possession, went of the defensive and lost in OT. Of course big role in that defeat was quality of Croatia's midfield and you could say England lacked a player then who could hold the ball and dictate the tempo but on the other hand at least they played entertaining offensive football.

Then Southgate decided to be pragmatic to negative.

In 2021 in the final England again started strong only to again let the ball to the opponent and be too careful and not sure of themselves. The result was Italy's win.

In 2022 in the quarters if I remember correctly it was a rather dull game vs France and England never looked like threatening.

Yesterday England was more concerned how to stop Spain then playing to their strenghts. In the 1st half it worked but in the 2nd Spain was clearly better and had a host of chances. Once England equalised Spain was a bit shaken and instead of trying to take advantage England again went into their shell and just defended, sort of waiting for an OT or for an opponent to score.
It happened all tournament when they would concede, against Slovakia, against Switzerland and the Dutch. They'd starte playing only when they'd concede.
Even against the Dutch, which was England's best game they had their opponent on the ropes, they went through Dutch middle like a knife through butter at will. So what happens in the 2nd half, they didnt play anything, just cruised through the game looking not sure if they should attack or defend more only to be saved by Watkins goal.

Its a travesty to have such a great team, such a wide quality bench from which you can bring up the likes of Gallagher, Palmer, Toney and co. and to play such a dull, ineffective, toothless, reactive football.
 
Honestly, that last second bellingham over head might well come back to haunt us if it means another two years of southgate :lol:
It would have been better to have left the FA with no choice!!

With Olise signing for Bayern and them have mustafa, it got me thinking that it has been a nuts gen for 'english' coached talent. Can people more clued into english youth football tell me is all these type of players emerging at the same time just seen as just fluke, or is it the start of things to come? Because for decades we coached kids the wrong way.

Anyway, with these recent loses, at least, we with moved on from the bonehead debates about the players lacking 'passion'
 
TheGame said:
Good grief, are we really quoting the racist Daily Mail to suit the Bellingham agenda?
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The original source is The Athletic and whether true or not (likely true since The Athletic tend to be well sourced and take themselves seriously) it wouldn't surprise me. The advert reeked of egotism.
 
sugar_kane said:
The original source is The Athletic and whether true or not (likely true since The Athletic tend to be well sourced and take themselves seriously) it wouldn't surprise me. The advert reeked of egotism.
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No sources quoted by the Athletic, just a bunch of rumours, pathetic really. The advert was done by Adidas, so what. Lots of players do adverts. If people are getting in a tizz about that, I suggest they take a look at themselves.
 
Juicy Juiced said:
Saka was atrocious. Biggest letdown on tournament.
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Was he really? He was easily the best performer out of him, Kane, Bellingham, Foden.

I thought he started the tournament slow, and was distinctly average in the group stages but he was pretty good, with some excellent sprinkled in, throughout the knockout games.
 
After this performance in the euros, do people think Kane will still be starting up top in 2 years in the world cup? Does southgate or whoever is the next manager start phasing him out of the squad? Or do you guys think that he'll be a squad player?
 
TheGame said:
No sources quoted by the Athletic, just a bunch of rumours, pathetic really. The advert was done by Adidas, so what. Lots of players do adverts. If people are getting in a tizz about that, I suggest they take a look at themselves.
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It was from Oliver kay who is legit, but i dunno. I don't really care about players having big ego's etc. All over rated noise. Tactics and technique are what win at this level.
 
WeePat said:
Was he really? He was easily the best performer out of him, Kane, Bellingham, Foden.

I thought he started the tournament slow, and was distinctly average in the group stages but he was pretty good, with some excellent sprinkled in, throughout the knockout games.
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Yeah Saka was fine, people blaming him are stupid, especially considering he had to play wingback essentially the last 3 matches and had Kyle Walker of all people to combine with him.

Kane/Foden/Bellingham was so clearly a bad mix of players, adding on top that Kane was yet again crap for England, yet they started every match. Spain was so clearly a team that you needed to accept you weren't going to ponderously dominate possession against like England did for every other game, and would instead have to be more transition based. Yet he didn't start a single runner in the side, instead sticking with the same attack that had being fecking awful the entire tournament as if they'd magically click and Kane would turn into 2018 Spurs Kane again. Embarassing management, and everyone trying to equate blaming Southgate to blaming SGE or Capello is a fecking idiot. The England squad that rolled out there yesterday was more than good enough to win the tournament, and sure as feck good enough to play better throughout against the weak competition than they did.
 
Gene Loblaw said:
After this performance in the euros, do people think Kane will still be starting up top in 2 years in the world cup? Does southgate or whoever is the next manager start phasing him out of the squad? Or do you guys think that he'll be a squad player?
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I said pre-tournament he shouldn't be a starter. Feels like people just hear "Harry Kane" and look at his goal record and assume he's England's main man even though that goal record includes a huge amount of pens and endless crap performances against good sides. Sure he'll bang them in against Moldova in a qualifier though I guess.

And that's not even factoring in that stylistically he needs certain players around him to thrive, which of course Southgate seemingly didn't factor in at all.
 
Gene Loblaw said:
After this performance in the euros, do people think Kane will still be starting up top in 2 years in the world cup? Does southgate or whoever is the next manager start phasing him out of the squad? Or do you guys think that he'll be a squad player?
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I think it entirely depends on what type of manager we have. If we have a manager who can get us playing better football and creating chances then he can finish them better than anyone.

If it is more of the same and you need to be rapid and explosive to make something out of nothing then he is less effective than others.
 
Gene Loblaw said:
After this performance in the euros, do people think Kane will still be starting up top in 2 years in the world cup?
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He's definitely going to be phased out if his form declines at Bayern. Even Toney and Watkins are going to be in their 30s by the time the 2026 World Cup rolls around which is shocking, I had assumed they were younger for some reason.
 
Gene Loblaw said:
After this performance in the euros, do people think Kane will still be starting up top in 2 years in the world cup? Does southgate or whoever is the next manager start phasing him out of the squad? Or do you guys think that he'll be a squad player?
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Yeah, he’s clearly not fully fit currently but the idea he’s in some terminal decline seems laughable at present after his last two seasons. I remember reading the same some years ago and he’s scored goals galore since.

However, I’d hope by 2026 we will have got to a place whereby if he isn’t fully fit, or struggles in the early games, the manager at the time will have no qualms about taking him off. He should be rotated far more in qualifiers as well. I’d be very surprised though if he isn’t still England’s best forward at that point.
 
lexisonfire said:
He's definitely going to be phased out if his form declines at Bayern. Even Toney and Watkins are going to be in their 30s by the time the 2026 World Cup roll around which is shocking, I had assumed they were younger for some reason.
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The lack of a top class younger CF is a concern for England. Solanke is probably the only other one who has shown form to suggest he could lead the line and even he is nearly 27. Hard to think of anyone in the 20-25 bracket who might make that leap.
 
Kane should just retire from england, at this point. He's had a good run, but he did more harm than good in this euro. It's the managers fault, for picking him.
 
Seems tobe so much tribalism overthis squads performance. Seealot of people saying the players are overrated too or so and so should have gone. Or its all Southgates fault.

Though Ithink he has done good thingsfor hisountry, never been fan of Southgate and also dont consider myself biased towards certain clubs players...my thoughts:

Southgate
1. He took pretty much the right squad
2. His initial tactics in the first game were not bad....but flawed with no left footed left back andit continued even witha back three until Shaw played,but hisoptions were limited
3.His squad selection and in game management in the group games was very poor...but we toppedthe group
4. The draw opened our best chance bar the last Euros of winning a tournament.Bar Spain and Germany....all the other major natios were poor and we didnt have to playany until the final...And thats where his record is flawed...two finalsand a semi....Germany in thelast Euros is the only good team we havebeaten, the record is padded
5. Thoughnot perfect, his tactics and subs in the quarter finals werent badunlike thelast Euros that we should have won,not so timid and weak....so part of the blame has to go with the players...

Players
1. Though some are overhyped too early, these arent overrated players....Stones, Walker,Shaw, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Kane...these are all quality players with experience and Wharton, Gordon, Mainoo are all good young players
2. Despite this...who played well every game they played in Pickford, Stones,Geuhi, Konsa, Shaw,maybe Palmer and Watkins. Whetherit was injuries, fatigue, fitness several players were nowehere near there best especiallyat the top end of the pitch
3.Inretrospect should it have been Foden OR Bellingham rather than both, didntgel andl no legs on the left

The biggest problem for me in the majorityof this tournament though and that lays toa degree on Southgates selection but equally o player performance are the two simplest thingsinmodern football:

1. Lack of press and inabilityto win the ball higher up the pitch....there waslittle pressing unless we were chasing agame we fell deep
2. The complete inability which I didnt expect to pass or carry the ball forward...criminal with these players.

I do think we are capable of winning a major tournament with the players we have. But we DO now need a different managerwith a high tempot attacking shaklesoff and brave approach....Klopp is perfect for the role. But we arealso stacked in 2/3positions and weak in as many also...Trying to accomodate thee best onesis wrong Bellingham/Foden was thisyear Gerrard/Sholes/Lampard. We also need some playersto emerge in 2/3positions....butmost of all, we need the players to perform to there potential in a postive way which despite these deeptournament runs....they havent done in a major finals for20odd years for me and that iswhy I still donthave pride in this team.

I am old enough to remember Italia 90 and Euro 96.....i include even Euro 2004. All these tournaments there were some terrible performances in thr group stages....worse than this tournament.....BUT those sides all went out of the competition on penaltiesand all three sideswent out playingreally good football.....none of Southgates sides thelast four tournaments have had a wonderful performance went out playing pretty average bar moments.

This Spain side hadno Pedri or Gavi in the final and 45mins of Rodri....Its a good SPain side, it wasnt agreat one though. only appeared so in apoor tournament whereeveryone else barGermany (who should have beaten them) were lacklustre
 
swooshboy said:
That could be because you don’t actually like football though.
Surprised you watched the game tbh.
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You can tell whenever he's posted a comment without even reading his user name. Stands out like a sore thumb in the same way I would if I went on a cricket thread to post about how I don't enjoy cricket.
 
Doracle said:
The lack of a top class younger CF is a concern for England. Solanke is probably the only other one who has shown form to suggest he could lead the line and even he is nearly 27. Hard to think of anyone in the 20-25 bracket who might make that leap.
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Well traditional 9s are slowly but surely becoming less relevant in modern tactics. Spain won Euros with Morata and he isn't exactly a worldbeating CF. Madrid didn't buy a 9 after Benzema left, yet they did the double with Jude & Vini's goals from the wing and midfield. Palmer scored 25 goals from out wide so England will be alright.
 
Malons said:
Let's come for all players and pretend that not shining under a genius like Southgate is the real litmus test.

That player that is brilliant for their club? Overrated. Said it for ages.
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Give some others a chance then.

Got to eight months out from this tournament and Kalvin fecking Phillips was still starting v Italy in the qualifiers after barely playing a club game in a year. Henderson came on for him. Also Maguire at the back when he was still warming the bench at Man. United.

Yeah I get trust but it's always been an England problem of fully trusting players outside the established group and so they come into tournaments with hardly a competitive start between them e.g. Gordon, Watkins, Palmer, Eze.

Watkins and Palmer proved in their cameos they could've done far more if they'd been trusted to start games. If England had gone out v Slovakia as they should've Ollie would've made one sub appearance which would've been disgraceful for someone who contributed 19 prem goals and double figures for assists.

What needs to happen now is tell Kane to get himself properly fit for Bayern Munich and don't call him up for the September and October nations league matches. You then play Watkins/Toney and bring in Solanke aswell. Then if Kane is looking much sharper he returns in November.

Gordon had all of 5 minutes v Slovenia so he also needs to get a run down the left and see how he does e.g. 3-4 starts.
 
Malons said:
Let's come for all players and pretend that not shining under a genius like Southgate is the real litmus test.

That player that is brilliant for their club? Overrated. Said it for ages.
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We've seen multiple England players (defenders, midfielders & attackers) shine this tournament, so it's hardly like Southgate is so bad that he's massively hampering players' ability.

Certain players like Foden can look good in a system that suits him at club level without being a world class footballer (see Sterling).

Mainoo can look mint under both Ten Hag and Southgate because he's mint.
 
Judas said:
It's horrible to be feeling so similarly to the last Euros final. Just a massive feeling of what if about it again. Handbrake on football is a curse I want gone, especially with the talent we have.
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Yeah I am sick of Safegate stifling our best talents because he has a negative mindset. Go out and make them worry about you not the other way round.
 
I feel like Southgate deserves a bit more respect. He’s made mistakes like every coach, but regardless of what he did, anything less than England winning the tournament meant he was always going to be criticised and always going to be the fall guy.

At the end of the day England were beaten by a better football team, that’s all there is to it really.
 
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