England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

Def playing with a back 3/5 having taken so many FBs. James as RCB and Walker as RWB.

Weird he did not take Lingaard. At international level where tactics matter less and individual brilliance matter more, you would want to have an impact sub who can inject energy at minute 80.
 
Makelele said:
Def playing with a back 3/5 having taken so many FBs. James as RCB and Walker as RWB.

Weird he did not take Lingaard. At international level where tactics matter less and individual brilliance matter more, you would want to have an impact sub who can inject energy at minute 80.
Click to expand...
Mount, Grealish, Sancho and Foden are all better than him though (and so are Rashford and Sterling on form). Surely you're only starting 2 or 3 players from that pool every game, so the subs should be better than a Lingard imo.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Germany maybe but no way would France line-up like that. Look at their lineups for the past two major tournament finals and they had Sissoko-Mutudi-Pogba-Payet in the 16 final and Greizmann and Giroud up top. In 2018 they Matudi, Kante, Pogba and Mbappe with the same two up top. They do not play champagne football by any stretch of the imagination. Neither do Portgual, in fact they're an entirely pragmatic side with a style informed by Mourinho. Deschamps actually faced the same criticisms as Southgate for his style but then he won the big pot so he gets to write history.
Click to expand...

19-20 year olds Martial and Coman were the only alternatives France had in the '16 final. Not starting those two was a logical decision. England's attacking depth is far stronger than France had that year. For the sake of argument let's assume France (based on the '18 final) would have dropped one of Mount/Foden/Grealish for Henderson. You get more defensive cover but that's still an XI with proper intent.

Portugal are pragmatic yes, that's why I didn't mention them. Spain however would definitely make the most of this English generation. They were also stacked with options between '08-12. Imagine if they had a cautious and safety first manager, their equivalent would have been dropping one of Xavi/Iniesta for an extra defender like Arbeloa/Albiol.

When you've got the likes of Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish, Kane, Rashford, Sterling at your disposal it's borderline criminal to use a formation with 5 defenders and 2 defensive minded mids like Rice and Henderson. With Kane being nailed on that leaves two spots for six highly talented players. That's a huge waste of talent.

I would sort of understand 5 atb if TAA was RWB with Rice+Mount in CM. The extra CB would cover for TAA being hyper-offensive plus any deficiencies Mount has in a midfield two. But TAA looks highly unlikely to start and the CM will most likely be Rice+Henderson. Soutgate's team will probably be close to:

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trippier - Rice - Henderson - Chilwell
Sterling - Kane - Grealish​

This is plucky underdog territory where the main objective is safety first. A rather underwhelming team and a huge waste of potential imo.
 
Last edited:
Think Greenwood would’ve got in ahead of Saka or DCL but Lingard should be in ahead of all 3
 
If Maguire is out and he goes back 3... he could potentially go for a back 3 of James -- Stones --- Shaw .. which might suffer aerially, but on the ball it would be fantastic.
 
MikeeMike said:
I know it smacks of anti - Scousers but Jordan Henderson. Seriously.
Simply cannot fathom how he is in the squad.
Injured since February with plus Groin surgery On what basis does he make the squad?
Surely not match fit, let alone a whole tournament.

Strangest decision for me.
Click to expand...
Gareth pretty much covered this by saying that, under normal circumstances, Henderson wouldn’t have been picked but with such a young squad and the 26 man squad meant that he could afford to bring him.

Basically said that having his experience just around the camp will help massively.

Can’t really disagree with him tbh,
 
Winzaghi said:
Not really sweating it about all the RBs or JWP not making it, but I honestly think Watkins should be second choice after Kane. As someone who watches (almost too much) a lot of Everton, DCL is really just a shit Kane that has a good leap on him. Watkins offers something completely different, and his pressing from the front would be very beneficial off the bench late in games. Even someone like Bamford would have been better. I obviously would have had all 3 and dropped one of the 13 RBs.
Click to expand...
:drool: The salt.
 
Samid said:
19-20 year olds Martial and Coman were the only alternatives France had in the '16 final. Not starting those two was a logical decision. England's attacking depth is far stronger than France had that year. For the sake of argument let's assume France (based on the '18 final) would have dropped one of Mount/Foden/Grealish for Henderson. You get more defensive cover but that's still an XI with proper intent.

Portugal are pragmatic yes, that's why I didn't mention them. Spain however would definitely make the most of this English generation. They were also stacked with options between '08-12. Imagine if they had a cautious and safety first manager, their equivalent would have been dropping one of Xavi/Iniesta for an extra defender like Arbeloa/Albiol.

When you've got the likes of Foden, Mount, Sancho, Grealish, Kane, Rashford, Sterling at your disposal it's borderline criminal to use a formation with 5 defenders and 2 defensive minded mids like Rice and Henderson. With Kane being nailed on that leaves two spots for six highly talented players. That's a huge waste of talent.

I would sort of understand 5 atb if TAA was RWB with Rice+Mount in CM. The extra CB would cover for TAA being hyper-offensive plus any deficiencies Mount has in a midfield two. But TAA looks highly unlikely to start and the CM will most likely be Rice+Henderson. Soutgate's team will probably be close to:

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trippier - Rice - Henderson - Chilwell
Sterling - Kane - Grealish​

This is plucky underdog territory where the main objective is safety first. A rather underwhelming team and a huge waste of potential imo.
Click to expand...

Spain are a not analagous to England, their ability to dominate the ball in midfield is fairly unique in world football. They have a harmonised ethos from grassroots up on how to play the game. England do not.

The idea that international football is full of sides playing champagne football is just not true. Tournaments, especially the knockouts, are very cagey affairs with teams focusing on not losing primarily.
 
STaphouse said:
Gareth pretty much covered this by saying that, under normal circumstances, Henderson wouldn’t have been picked but with such a young squad and the 26 man squad meant that he could afford to bring him.

Basically said that having his experience just around the camp will help massively.

Can’t really disagree with him tbh,
Click to expand...
Bringing a player for “experience around the camp” doesn’t cut it for me. I think there are better options - Another attacker for example.
 
Maguire unfit and four right backs is an injury crisis just waiting to happen. Even with a back 5 including Walker or Shaw in the 3 (surely not both) he's picking 2 from 3 CBs until Maguire is ready - with no guarantees that he will be for a while. 26 slots and Southgate still leaves himself open to that risk. Hard to fathom.
 
MikeeMike said:
Bringing a player for “experience around the camp” doesn’t cut it for me. I think there are better options - Another attacker for example.
Click to expand...

There’s also the fact that when he is fit, he’s out best midfielder. It’s not like Gareth has bought Rooney out of retirement ffs.

Why do we need another attacker? There’s already players going that will play less than 20 minutes throughout the whole tournament.
If anything I’d say an extra midfielder is needed tbh. JWP should have gone instead of one of the Right backs but I think Gareth bottled it.
 
SilentWitness said:
:confused: You’d only take one recognised striker in Kane?
Click to expand...
Probably. Can’t see him ever subbing DCL on for Kane, tactical changes will be made to change the top line and a like for like for one of the best strikers around wouldn’t make sense. The only issue would be if Kane got injured but I think it’s a risk worth taking given the variety we’d have in forward minded players having brought Lingard and Greenwood if not injured.
 
MikeeMike said:
Bringing a player for “experience around the camp” doesn’t cut it for me. I think there are better options - Another attacker for example.
Click to expand...

Like the squad hasn't got enough attackers. Like it or not, teams need leaders, players who have been there done it, Henderson is one of them. That experience is required in and around the dressing room.

We are going into the tournament with Kane, DCL, Rashford, Sterling who have all played up top during phases this season, add to that Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden who are all attackers.
 
Would love to see:

---------Pickford--------
Walker----Stones---Maguire----Shaw
---------Rice-------Bellingham
Sterling-----Mount------Foden
--------------Kane-------------

Torn for the right side but we definitely need some pace in either Sterling or Sancho. Could then replace Bellingham for either Grealish or Rashford to go with a 4-1-4-1 against the Czechs and Scotland and if behind in games. Can't see Southgate going for it though with the squad picked.
 
Yes I know we probably should have included JWP/Jesse instead of yet another RB and possibly Watkins due to Mason injury as well, however let's just get behind the team now and not write us off before a ball has even been kicked yet
 
romufc said:
Like the squad hasn't got enough attackers. Like it or not, teams need leaders, players who have been there done it, Henderson is one of them. That experience is required in and around the dressing room.

We are going into the tournament with Kane, DCL, Rashford, Sterling who have all played up top during phases this season, add to that Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden who are all attackers.
Click to expand...
Respect your view but a player who has not played since months is a liability.

OK, if he gets through the friendlies coming up then different.
 
MikeeMike said:
Respect your view but a player who has not played since months is a liability.

OK, if he gets through the friendlies coming up then different.
Click to expand...

I do agree, it seems there is more sentiment to it than footballing reasons. I do also feel that the shortage of CM options made the choice easier for him, same as the Maguire situation too. There is no clear candidate to play there.
 
romufc said:
I do agree, it seems there is more sentiment to it than footballing reasons. I do also feel that the shortage of CM options made the choice easier for him, same as the Maguire situation too. There is no clear candidate to play there.
Click to expand...

I think it’s a really easy desk ion to make, taking Henderson and Maguire given the 26 man squad. If it was 23, then it would be far more difficult, and Henderson in particular I don’t think would be going. With Maguire, i don’t think anyone actually knows the extent of his injury.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
I think it’s a really easy desk ion to make, taking Henderson and Maguire given the 26 man squad. If it was 23, then it would be far more difficult, and Henderson in particular I don’t think would be going. With Maguire, i don’t think anyone actually knows the extent of his injury.
Click to expand...
Precisely. The match day squad is still 23 players, so three players will not be on the bench, regardless. Maguire will likely be one of those names and possibly Henderson too if he's not deemed match fit by then too, so potentially only one fit player (possibly Johnstone) will also be in the stands.
 
SilentWitness said:
:drool: The salt.
Click to expand...
Nah, it's not even about Watkins specifically. If you're going to take only 2 strikers, I'd rather have Ings there but he isn't fully fit. Failing that, a quick striker that's very good at pressing from the front like Watkins or Abraham.

Everton are my second team basically and as happy as I am that DCL has made it this far, he still really isn't that great if I'm being honest. Kane gets injured and you have to rely on him and Rashford who hasn't played the position since like 2018.
 
Another option is to play Rice as a CB if Maguire is out. It depends on Henderson though. If he's fine, you can move Rice back; if not then you need to have someone in the CM to do the dirty work (Phillips you keep to sub in when you're holding a league).

Like others, I think our best shot, with the attackers we have, is to take the game to opponents. Playing conservatively will be our ruin.
 
RobinLFC said:
He can act all "Scoucer first, England second" he wants to be being left out of a tournament squad is gutting and not good for a (young) player's confidence. A longer break would've done him well either but this isn't the end of the world imo (if he's actually included, of course). Chances are he won't be a regular starter anyway.
Click to expand...

Oh look he's injured. That will do his young confidence a world of good. Hindsight? No, its foresight. Knew it. Just fecking knew it. :(
 
I’d start Bellingham. His age isn’t really relevant; he’s just a much better player than Phillips.
 
Kag said:
I’d start Bellingham. His age isn’t really relevant; he’s just a much better player than Phillips.
Click to expand...
I agree, really like Bellingham. With Henderson not fully fit, this is a perfect opportunity to play him.
 
Kag said:
I’d start Bellingham. His age isn’t really relevant; he’s just a much better player than Phillips.
Click to expand...

Agree. I like Phillips and his style is made for International football....I just dont think he is quite international standard. Bellingham is already a very good player and would start for me too. Though I am not a big fan, I would have started Henderson if it wasnt for the injuries though
 
Kag said:
I’d start Bellingham. His age isn’t really relevant; he’s just a much better player than Phillips.
Click to expand...
Yup he stepped up against man city's midfield and looked class.
 
Bellingham is class, sucks that we couldn’t convince him to sign and instead end up paying a fortune to Dortmund if there’s even a sniff at signing him.
 
Who do we take now Trent is out? Lingard or Ward-Prowse? We're a bit short in central midfield, particularly if Henderson is still not 100%.
 
PoTMS said:
Who do we take now Trent is out? Lingard or Ward-Prowse? We're a bit short in central midfield, particularly if Henderson is still not 100%.
Click to expand...

I’d bring Godfrey. Maguire’s injury is a bastard, to be honest. The thought of Coady and Mings at the back for us at this level is horrifying, so a better option to play in a back three in the event he’s injured wouldn’t go amiss.

If not Godfrey then Ward-Prowse to pad out the midfield options some more.
 
PoTMS said:
Who do we take now Trent is out? Lingard or Ward-Prowse? We're a bit short in central midfield, particularly if Henderson is still not 100%.
Click to expand...

It really does depend on Henderson - we are thinnest in midfield. Henderson has been injured, Phillips coming back from injury, and Bellingham is 17. JWP is the sensible option

Lingard though deserves to be in there, is in form and has the tournament experience. He’s more likely to get minutes, whilst JWP would just be an insurance option.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
It really does depend on Henderson - we are thinnest in midfield. Henderson has been injured, Phillips coming back from injury, and Bellingham is 17. JWP is the sensible option

Lingard though deserves to be in there, is in form and has the tournament experience. He’s more likely to get minutes, whilst JWP would just be an insurance option.
Click to expand...
I don't think Lingard would get many if any minutes. There are loads of good attacking midfielders/wingers and he'd be bottom of the pecking order.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.