England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

Mb194dc said:
England are about 65% to win v Denmark imo looking at team strength. Being at home makes a big difference. Spain would be easier than Italy for final, I reckon 60% to beat Spain, 50/50 v Italy though.

Got to give credit for Southgate for getting England this far. Playing almost all games at home is a big advantage. Can only beat who is in front of you though. He's done that and only Germany even caused any slight problems. Against a knackered Ukraine was always going to be an easy win.

Be interesting to see if he goes in to club football after England, how he gets on.
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I think England would be Italy's kryptonite.

Italy play with high fullbacks and slow CBs. I'd expect Sterling and Sancho/Saka to have a field day. It wouldn't surprise me to see Spain do similarly. Plus, the only decent team Italy have played is Belgium who were terrible on the day with no Hazard and an injured KDB. You could argue the same for England, but Southgate plays the same style against the minnows as he does against the big boys (hence the accusations of being boring). The flipside is that the players would need zero adaptation.

I reckon both Denmark and Spain would be trickier propositions (though I'd fancy England's ability to shut Denmark out). But Spain are the ones who are the biggest threat, imo. As wasteful as their forwards have been, that bad luck won't last forever. They only need to convert a couple of their many half chances and it's game over.
 
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Southgate is lucky charm for england. He decided to bench Henderson who was came back from long injury lay off for philips and philips made the first goal for england. Nobody thought philips could be the source for the goal but he did.

Played mings until Maguire gained full fitness. Once Maguire got fit he brought him in.

Mount forced to self isolate he bring in grealish and saka for work rate upfront to maintain balance of the team.

German wingbacks were big threat in wing so went with three back formation to neutral them and succeeded but sacrificed grealish for balance and team effort.Once Germans got tired brought grealish to finished them off with werner subbed adjusted the team to push up.

Brought back mount to link up defense and attack to maintain team balance and won against Ukraine.

All those things are resemblance of very good manager who want his team to do well by maintain the team balance and structure.

Yes it's not his fault if Ukraine,weaker germany,Denmark are opponents of england in knockouts. Job well done Southgate. After 25 years england will play semifinal in euro knockout tournament. That itself biggest achievement for Southgate.By the look of it final appearance too not far away.
 
So am I right in saying everything Southgate does for England is pure luck right?
 
Buster15 said:
You can only play the teams in front of you.
And let's see how well Denmark play before judging them.
Your cup is definitely half empty
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Probably. I was one of those who convinced themselves the World Cup was ours in 2018 off the back of beating mediocre opponents, I'm not making the same mistake again :)

Also, until yesterday i hadn't seen what i'd call a totally convincing performance from us.
 
The England v Ukraine game was a very good one. We could have won by more than four, but you can tell we held back at the end. It was a great result after the Germany game.

His handling of the team has been better since the groups. The group performances didn't give me much hope because there was too much sitting back, and I thought we might do the same against Germany and only invite pressure. But we pushed forward much more than I expected.

The only bit I worry about in the team is Walker. He made quite a few mistakes in the first half when we were playing the ball around at the back.
 
It'll be interesting to see if Southgate reverts to a back 5 to match Denmark's back 5. That wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
MU655 said:
The England v Ukraine game was a very good one. We could have won by more than four, but you can tell we held back at the end. It was a great result after the Germany game.

His handling of the team has been better since the groups. The group performances didn't give me much hope because there was too much sitting back, and I thought we might do the same against Germany and only invite pressure. But we pushed forward much more than I expected.

The only bit I worry about in the team is Walker. He made quite a few mistakes in the first half when we were playing the ball around at the back.
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But he trusted walker and he showed again and again once he trusted players he rarely change them. Hope he will have few words with walker about the casual passes in critical areas.

By the looks of things in maintaining balance walker played as centerback than fullback. By doing so Southgate maintained three at the back by reserved fullback in walker.
 
Question:

Which front 6 is better?

Kane
Sterling--Mount--Sancho
Rice--Philips

Cavani
Rashford--Bruno--Sancho
Fred--McTominay​
 
Dante said:
Question:

Which front 6 is better?

Kane
Sterling--Mount--Sancho
Rice--Philips

Cavani
Rashford--Bruno--Sancho
Fred--McTominay​
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I'd say the understanding between Sterling and Kane gives England the edge. Put Grealish in for Mount and it's a no contest.
 
Dante said:
Question:

Which front 6 is better?

Kane
Sterling--Mount--Sancho
Rice--Philips

Cavani
Rashford--Bruno--Sancho
Fred--McTominay​
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England position for position are better or equal (Sancho) in 5/6 of those contests. Only Bruno is better than Mount.

Rashford on form would give Sterling a good run. But Sterling is on fire, so no contest at the moment.
 
Dante said:
It'll be interesting to see if Southgate reverts to a back 5 to match Denmark's back 5. That wouldn't surprise me at all.
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England already played that way in my opinion. Right sided attacker foden or saka or Sancho had to attack lonely or combined with mount.

Walker rarely crossed half way line to support attacks. Shaw given license to attack and he did perform admirably. I don't think he will go three at the back with mount in team.
 
VP89 said:
Yes, you can. But he struggled against sides he was expected to beat. Games which shouldn't have gone to penalty lotteries did so. And he failed against Croatia so yes, its fair to say he fecked up in games.

The previous England managers underachieving is not relevant. The expectation for an England manager right now isn't just "do better than what we had before and it's fine". At present there is an expectation for a manager to perform for his country with the quality that he has at his disposal. Southgate is a shite manager who has barely passed any tests whatsoever. I don't class the opening game of the Euros as a big test, nor do I classify beating Colombia or Sweden as one. I look at how we were dominated by Beligum in 3rd place playoffs, or how we fecked up against a worse side in the semi finals vs Croatia, etc.


Your point would have some validity if Southgate won a fecking trophy. But he didn't. So when people say "oh we reached the semi's" like it's some big achievement without considering the opponents its just stupid.
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Yup
 
11101 said:
Probably. I was one of those who convinced themselves the World Cup was ours in 2018 off the back of beating mediocre opponents, I'm not making the same mistake again :)

Also, until yesterday i hadn't seen what i'd call a totally convincing performance from us.
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That is perfectly understandable. What I do like about Southgate is that he is not afraid to pick a team and set out his tactics to match the opposition.
Prior to that, England were always far too rigid trying to slot players into positions such as 442 for example.
And it is clear that his players are comfortable with that.
 
Up until now, it has been all about Stirling and Kane; understandably so.
But for me, Luke Shaw has been excellent.
He is so calm and assured. And the precision of some of his passes has been so dependable and so telling.
Well done Gareth for putting your trust in him and not Chilwell.
 
I can't believe how recently I thought Shaw was done (very early 2020), he's proved me so wrong and I couldn't be happier. He's turning into the exact player we all thought he could be.
 
Judas said:
I can't believe how recently I thought Shaw was done (very early 2020), he's proved me so wrong and I couldn't be happier. He's turning into the exact player we all thought he could be.
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Me too. To be fair, we did wait a long, long time for him to realise his potential and it can’t all be put down to that bad injury. Anyway, it’s great to see him becoming a key player for both club and country.
 
Always thought that this was England's best chance of winning a trophy, and with Belgium and France going out. It's for them to lose.
 
Drifter said:
Always thought that this was England's best chance of winning a trophy, and with Belgium and France going out. It's for them to lose.
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With Germany and France going out. Belgium are overrated.
 
esmufc07 said:
Love this

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I think there's something bigger than football going on here for England. It reminds me of that article that Southgate wrote in The Players Tribune. The England NT is at the forefront of forging a new English national identity as we go through this demographic change. Hopefully the team can act as a bond for communities and a shared positive national experience. I've seen quite a few Asian Muslim kids round my way wearing the England NT shirt. As Southgate said the boo boys are fighting an already lost battle.
 
Drifter said:
Sorry, got to disagree there. Germany as been on the decline since 2016. England's win was no real surprise.
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It may not have been a surprise but for England to win against a football superpower such as Germany (who on top have beaten them many times in the past) is a much bigger achievement than beating Belgium.
Plus the Belgium team is really nothing special. It reminds me of England’s past teams. A few very good players and the rest is average. If those few very good players are half fit or out of form (Beckham, Rooney, KdB, Hazard, etc.) then there’s no one to replace them without a drop in quality.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think there's something bigger than football going on here for England. It reminds me of that article that Southgate wrote in The Players Tribune. The England NT is at the forefront of forging a new English national identity as we go through this demographic change. Hopefully the team can act as a bond for communities and a shared positive national experience. I've seen quite a few Asian Muslim kids round my way wearing the England NT shirt. As Southgate said the boo boys are fighting an already lost battle.
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I live in between quite a big mosque and a Sikh temple. I went out for a walk in between the two games yesterday and noticed both places of worship had set up a big screen for the England game and it wasn't just members of each faith in there watching the game. People were driving in to drop off piles of food and snacks (I think they could be a local business, but not sure), but it was great to see. Everyone is getting involved.
 
united_99 said:
It may not have been a surprise but for England to win against a football superpower such as Germany (who on top have beaten them many times in the past) is a much bigger achievement than beating Belgium.
Plus the Belgium team is really nothing special. It reminds me of England’s past teams. A few very good players and the rest is average. If those few very good players are half fit or out of form (Beckham, Rooney, KdB, Hazard, etc.) then there’s no one to replace them without a drop in quality.
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Put some respect on Chadli's name.
 
united_99 said:
It may not have been a surprise but for England to win against a football superpower such as Germany (who on top have beaten them many times in the past) is a much bigger achievement than beating Belgium.
Plus the Belgium team is really nothing special. It reminds me of England’s past teams. A few very good players and the rest is average. If those few very good players are half fit or out of form (Beckham, Rooney, KdB, Hazard, etc.) then there’s no one to replace them without a drop in quality.
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It meant ten times more beating Germany than it would have done beating Belgium you're right.

Belgium may be better than Germany right now, but the history of Germany winning so many trophies, of always beating England, to be able to knock Germany out felt like a mental block was smashed down.

Same way beating Colombia on penalties in the last World Cup meant so much more than if we had held on to win 1-0.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
It meant ten times more beating Germany than it would have done beating Belgium you're right.

Belgium may be better than Germany right now, but the history of Germany winning so many trophies, of always beating England, to be able to knock Germany out felt like a mental block was smashed down.

Same way beating Colombia on penalties in the last World Cup meant so much more than if we had held on to win 1-0.
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I have mixed feeling about that. We should have beaten them anyway as we are a much stronger nation in terms of talent and infrastructure.

Beating a weakening German side that only just scraped through by the skin of their teeth was good in terms of getting a monkey of our backs but It'll be hollowif the improving performances aren't consolidated with a tournament win or at least coming close.
 
horsechoker said:
But she starts with the "three __ walk into a bar" which means a joke is about to follow :(
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The joke is that it begins with the familiar intro but it turns out to be sincere. I don't know if you recall the Bernard Righton comic as played by John Thompson.
The opening sums it up.
 
I'm going to eat a lot of humble pie if England end up winning this. I've talked a lot of shit about Southgate and this team, but so far they're smashing it. Well done.

Hope Italy kills them but :nervous:
 
UnitedSofa said:
If Italy played the way we have and had comfortable 1-0 wins. Everyone would say how calm and collected they've been and it's something to be worried about, but because it's England and fans have unreal expectations that we should spank everyone 3-0 we are left disappointed.

I'm warning you now, that tonights game will be no different. Ukraine will sit back and have 10 men behind the ball and make it very hard for England. Expect a 1-0 win.
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No they wouldn't. Italy have looked like a very good team in all of their games. If they'd played like England...well they'd probably have gone out to Belgium.

I don't think England fans have unreal expectations either. Most I know or have spoken to are just extatic to actually get to the later stages of a tournament twice in a row rather than embarassing ourselves, and probably happy to have a team to support that is actually somewhat likeable for once.

Don't know what to tell you about the last part. I didn't expect a 4-0 but Ukraine were absolutely shattered at the end of the Sweden game, and England do have very good forward players when they actually turn up. Sterling had his best game of the tournament by a mile and Kane is scoring again, which actually gives England the best chance they've had since 96 of winning something. This is the point really. I think this England team has mostly played well beow their capability and Southgate's management is just weird at times...but now we are where we are with most of the teams I feared would spank us having already crashed out, I'll happily take it.
 
Italy have been the tournament's best team in possession. And Spain have been the best at actually keeping possession.

But England have been the better than both at controlling game whether they have the ball or not. I think that all-roundedness is being underappreciated because it's less easy on the eye.

It's probably a bit sacrilegious to say this but England are playing like a classic Germany side. It's a style that has the potential to win tournaments.
 
Dante said:
Italy have been the tournament's best team in possession. And Spain have been the best at actually keeping possession.

But England have been the better than both at controlling game whether they have the ball or not. I think that all-roundedness is being underappreciated because it's less easy on the eye.

It's probably a bit sacrilegious to say this but England are playing like a classic Germany side. It's a style that has the potential to win tournaments.
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Not sure about that last bit. I haven’t seen a good Germany side set up as negatively as England. They have also always been better at controlling the ball in possession than this England side because they have better passers in midfield.
 
Amazing that foden has really fallen down the pecking order with not only the manager but the public as well, also think the injury to taa was a blessing in disguise because had he been playing during the euro's for england I doubt we would have been as solid defensively and could imagine the circus around whether he was going to be picked for the euro squad would have rolled over to whether he was going to start for england in the euro's
 
Suedesi said:
I'm going to eat a lot of humble pie if England end up winning this. I've talked a lot of shit about Southgate and this team, but so far they're smashing it. Well done.

Hope Italy kills them but :nervous:
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You have been very honest about your views on the England manager and team. But unlike many, you have been big enough to acknowledge that your views have changed. And that is good of you.
I am a bit nervous that Denmark might score first. Something that has not happened yet. Hopefully that won't happen. But if it does, it will be interesting to see how the team reacts.
 
Suedesi said:
I'm going to eat a lot of humble pie if England end up winning this. I've talked a lot of shit about Southgate and this team, but so far they're smashing it. Well done.

Hope Italy kills them but :nervous:
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At least you’re not doubling down when the evidence proves otherwise like others probably will.
 
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