England Discussion

For the record I didn't watch the game either, I'd rather watch paint dry than an England friendly, but I'm still more than happy and within my rights to moan about Southgate.
 
As a neutral, I would call into question Southgate's ability alone just for picking Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire. It's ridiculous.
 
Not sure if Southgate is good or bad but he is in lose-lose situation no matter what happens (unless England win Euros with him as manager).

Win the game - Team is talented and they can win on auto mode
Lose the game or draw - He is shit.

Once he is gone, if the next manager does well - Proves how shit Southgate was
If the next manager does poorly - Southgate drained the talent and wasted Kane peak years, next manager doesn't have CF as good as Kane at his peak.

Unless he wins Euros, there is no win situation for him, especially on caf.
 
As a neutral, I would call into question Southgate's ability alone just for picking Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire. It's ridiculous.

The reasoning for Maguire which I thought was reasonable was to have an experienced guy beside an internationally inexperienced guy. However Henderson that day and Maguire again today makes 0 sense
 
Not sure if Southgate is good or bad but he is in lose-lose situation no matter what happens (unless England win Euros with him as manager).

Win the game - Team is talented and they can win on auto mode
Lose the game or draw - He is shit.

Once he is gone, if the next manager does well - Proves how shit Southgate was
If the next manager does poorly - Southgate drained the talent and wasted Kane peak years, next manager doesn't have CF as good as Kane at his peak.

Unless he wins Euros, there is no win situation for him, especially on caf.

I think at this point the talent has outgrown him. Rice under Arteta now, Bellingham at Real under Ancelotti, Walker/Stones/Foden/Grealish under Pep, Kane at Bayern....they are all at a presumably different/ higher level of coaching daily than what they see when they go to internationals.

I get it that the internationals are a different kettle of fish particularly given the amount of time available to work on things on the training ground but they still probably notice a drop in quality. That's my opinion.
 
Absolutely comical that Harry Maguire puts that one away with such efficiency. He couldn't have done anything better to bring attention to Southgate's peculiar decision making.

That said, England controlled things well in that environment against a resurgent Scotland. The performance was much better and actually pretty good at times.
 
I think at this point the talent has outgrown him. Rice under Arteta now, Bellingham at Real under Ancelotti, Walker/Stones/Foden/Grealish under Pep, Kane at Bayern....they are all at a presumably different/ higher level of coaching daily than what they see when they go to internationals.

I get it that the internationals are a different kettle of fish particularly given the amount of time available to work on things on the training ground but they still probably notice a drop in quality. That's my opinion.

Yeah, what you said is true but usually very good managers and elite ones will be managing top clubs isn't it. So the pool won't be bigger in terms of choice of managers.

Maybe someone like Potter but not sure how much impact he can have considering they will get very little time to train.

Btw if Southgate goes, who will be next manager? Would love to see someone like Potter.
 
The problem England have is learning how to win against the teams they've always traditionally failed against. The difference between England and France in the World Cup tie was that France knew they could win that kind of game, whereas England were hoping they could.

France had done it before, they knew they could do it and once you're used to winning, you find a way. Like we've seen United do time and time again in the past. It's that extra little bit of belief that success gives you and it's the hardest step to take.

England have such a deep rooted history of blowing it in important games, coming close, heroic failure, time and time again. Overcoming that mental block could be the biggest challenge.
 
The problem England have is learning how to win against the teams they've always traditionally failed against. The difference between England and France in the World Cup tie was that France knew they could win that kind of game, whereas England were hoping they could.

France had done it before, they knew they could do it and once you're used to winning, you find a way. Like we've seen United do time and time again in the past. It's that extra little bit of belief that success gives you and it's the hardest step to take.

England have such a deep rooted history of blowing it in important games, coming close, heroic failure, time and time again. Overcoming that mental block could be the biggest challenge.
I think this is true but I think it's also the reason we need somebody with more credibility and authority than Gareth Southgate to instill a sense of belief that they can actually do it. A bit of nous in the key moments would also be welcome because I think it is partly belief (why the heck couldn't we beat an ancient Italy or underperforming France on those nights) and partly some weird decisions.

When it comes to easing through simple qualifying and group stages of major tournaments, Gareth is a steady hand. He deserves at least some credit for getting into good positions with consistency. But when it comes to taking advantage of some great draws and ultimately delivering, that's where he'll constantly flounder. He doesn't have it.
 


For feck sake just fire him already. We all know what he's going to do in the Euros. We'll get through the group stage then get to the knockouts and lose to the first decent team we face because he will set us up to play negatively.
 
First half today was outstanding albeit against a very limited opponent, Scotland were dogshit tonight, how they beat Spain god only knows.
Midfield balance was good (without Henderson).
Then second half was poor (Maguire a part of that) tried to pass it around like we were peak Barcelona.
Dunk was excellent I thought, if Maguire gets any sort of meaningful minutes ahead of him there should be questions.
When you consider who was left out and our strength in depth across the board we absolutely have to be winning the euros (not losing to the first half decent side we meet) but I have 0 confidence we can do that. One reason - Southgate
 


For feck sake just fire him already. We all know what he's going to do in the Euros. We'll get through the group stage then get to the knockouts and lose to the first decent team we face because he will set us up to play negatively.


Yeah he's a nice guy and deserves credit for building a good atmosphere, but tactically he is poor. You pretty much know we're not going to win the Euros because he'll setup defensively with his favourite past it players and we'll lose to teams that actually try to attack. It's a shame because I don't think I'm ever going to see the breadth of attacking talent in an England squad again for a long time. I mean just 10 years past we were lining up with Heskey and Lennon/Young supporting Rooney in attack..
 
I haven't watched hardly any full qualifiers/nations league games of England, but at the tournaments i got the impression the midfields have been more at fault than the manager for the 2018 and Euro final losses; they were thoroughly outclassed in both once the early pressure slowed down. They also played to a creative/technical standard in alot of games that (relative to the standards of the era) i've seen matched or exceeded by plenty of teams that never even qualified for/went out early in tournaments. I was watching some of Argentina's and Colombia's 94 world cup games recently, and despite being three decades behind, they were more sophisticated in possession than what England produced. When you've got an entire part of the team that is workmanlike, i think more humility is needed, and a semi-final and final is a good return not to be scoffed at regardless of manager. Sure, the World Cup run was pretty easy by most semi-finalist standards, but the Euro had Croatia, a good in-form Denmark and the master race in a knockout game.

That said i thought you looked better in midfield at the Qatar WC, and with the emergence of Bellingham, he might give that extra quality needed there. Even if Southgate is no Pep on midfield tactics
 
The problem England have is learning how to win against the teams they've always traditionally failed against. The difference between England and France in the World Cup tie was that France knew they could win that kind of game, whereas England were hoping they could.

France had done it before, they knew they could do it and once you're used to winning, you find a way. Like we've seen United do time and time again in the past. It's that extra little bit of belief that success gives you and it's the hardest step to take.

England have such a deep rooted history of blowing it in important games, coming close, heroic failure, time and time again. Overcoming that mental block could be the biggest challenge.

Yeah you have totally nailed it with this post,other than beating a fading Germany our tournament record against the top sides is average
 
Is Nketiah the only player who didn't get a minute ?
 
I’m still baffled why he played Guehi and then brought on Maguire with l, Tomori and Colwill on the bench. This was a friendly, why not give them guys game time otherwise what’s the point of them being in the squad.

Those two along with possibly the likes of Ward-Prowse are just waiting for the next manager who will give them an opportunity
 
Didn't watch last night but saw Maguire scored an OG after coming on at HT. I get he rates Maguire and understand he started him in the qualifier but seems bizarre not to give Colwill or Tomori some minutes to see what they can do in what was a friendly match.
 
Yeah, what you said is true but usually very good managers and elite ones will be managing top clubs isn't it. So the pool won't be bigger in terms of choice of managers.

Maybe someone like Potter but not sure how much impact he can have considering they will get very little time to train.

Btw if Southgate goes, who will be next manager? Would love to see someone like Potter.

Will he be able to work his magic?

On a serious, Maguire is a meme, how is Southgate still picking him?
 
Not sure if Southgate is good or bad but he is in lose-lose situation no matter what happens (unless England win Euros with him as manager).

Win the game - Team is talented and they can win on auto mode
Lose the game or draw - He is shit.

Once he is gone, if the next manager does well - Proves how shit Southgate was
If the next manager does poorly - Southgate drained the talent and wasted Kane peak years, next manager doesn't have CF as good as Kane at his peak.

Unless he wins Euros, there is no win situation for him, especially on caf.

Obviously, imo he has done a very good job until now.
Let's wait for a Capello or SG Eriksson type of manager to come and be knocked out in the first stages of the major competitions.
 
Doesn’t matter I guess. He won’t leave him out. He’s shown that as long as you’ve performed well for him in the past, you’ve got a place in his squad indefinitely.

 
From a neutral standpoint, how has Southgate managed to stay on as England manager for this long? He strikes me as uninspiring and stuck in his ways.
 
Doesn’t matter I guess. He won’t leave him out. He’s shown that as long as you’ve performed well for him in the past, you’ve got a place in his squad indefinitely.



The right time for him to make changes to the squad was last year, immediately after the WC, going into the Nations League. Phase out the middlers and bring in potential, who have 2 years to prove their case before the Euros.

He's not making drastic changes to formation or setup. He's going to go with 2 conservative midfielders, which means one or both of Phillips/Henderson can rest easy. Maguire may lose his starting spot but Southgate may decide to play 3 CBs and with Mings out, White in purgatory and Tomori/Colwill unproven for England, Maguire is on that plane.
 
The right time for him to make changes to the squad was last year, immediately after the WC, going into the Nations League. Phase out the middlers and bring in potential, who have 2 years to prove their case before the Euros.

He's not making drastic changes to formation or setup. He's going to go with 2 conservative midfielders, which means one or both of Phillips/Henderson can rest easy. Maguire may lose his starting spot but Southgate may decide to play 3 CBs and with Mings out, White in purgatory and Tomori/Colwill unproven for England, Maguire is on that plane.
As I’ve said previously, he has fallen into the same routine as other international managers. He knows he’s at the end of his own personal cycle and has no interest in investing any of his time in anything beyond that. Absolute cnut really.
 
As I’ve said previously, he has fallen into the same routine as other international managers. He knows he’s at the end of his own personal cycle and has no interest in investing any of his time in anything beyond that. Absolute cnut really.

That's the job of the FA honestly, to be more strategic and look behind the current generation. Southgate cannot be in charge of deciding who gets promoted from the U-21s for example.

I don't know how this works in practice to be honest.
 
Wonder if there'd be this vitriol against him on a Manchester United forum if he was called Garaomius Eastgate.
 
Not sure if Southgate is good or bad but he is in lose-lose situation no matter what happens (unless England win Euros with him as manager).

Win the game - Team is talented and they can win on auto mode
Lose the game or draw - He is shit.

Once he is gone, if the next manager does well - Proves how shit Southgate was
If the next manager does poorly - Southgate drained the talent and wasted Kane peak years, next manager doesn't have CF as good as Kane at his peak.

Unless he wins Euros, there is no win situation for him, especially on caf.
Yep, even if he wins the Euros, i'd say there'd be a fair few "expecting" it, as a minimum, and would downplay it due to the squad. Definitely a lose - lose situation, but i guess it comes with the territory of managing such a talented squad. I'd say it's probably his lack of achievements in senior football management which will always count against him as some never deemed him worthy of the job. Not that that's necessarily a proxy of a good NT manager (look at Scaloni at Argentina).

Anyway, it is what it is and i doubt many will change their views on him anytime soon.
 
I'm surprised Anderson has snubbed Scotland for England but that could fix a midfield issue for you if he continues to improve.