England Discussion

ayushreddevil9 said:
So according to you nobody should be on this forum calling out any professional involved in football - journalist, player or a coach. Maybe even pundits aren't supposed to discuss any of the bs that happens in the game. Right?
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Comment all you want, but calling someone clueless when last euro they made the finals is a fecking weird statement.

Not your type of manager? Fine
Not agree with tactics? Fine
I think others will do a better job? Fine

Shit? No. Its an armchair statement plain and simple. You dont get to a final in such a tournament while being shit. The dressing room would fall apart long before it. To coach the kind of players that belong at the very very top of the game requires _a lot_. A clueless guy wouldnt manage it.
 
V.O. said:
A professional football manager once played David James up front in a Premier League match. Being a professional doesn't necessarily mean you have a clue.

If you couldn't criticise the decisions of professionals (players, managers, referees), there'd be no forum.
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Did that manager get a team to qualify for a major tournament every single time and reach a final in said tournament? Where is this professional manager today?

Call someone shit and clueless isa weird way of critizise someone. If they are so shit and clueless you should think there would be plenty of stuff to point out to strengthen the argument, other than 'clueless'

Is he boring? Hell yes
Is he clueless? No
 
Andersonson said:
Comment all you want, but calling someone clueless when last euro they made the finals is a fecking weird statement.

Not your type of manager? Fine
Not agree with tactics? Fine
I think others will do a better job? Fine

Shit? No. Its an armchair statement plain and simple. You dont get to a final in such a tournament while being shit. The dressing room would fall apart long before it. To coach the kind of players that belong at the very very top of the game requires _a lot_. A clueless guy wouldnt manage it.
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You are talking like Southgate's England beat the very best out there to reach those stages. In fact the only big name team they have beaten so far is Germany who themselves have done nothing since 2017.

England are doing the bare minimum in beating the likes of Denmark, Ukraine, Sweden, Senegal with the amount of talent they got.

They have lost to Belgium(twice), Croatia, Italy and France and consequently got knocked out. They never beat any good opponent.

You know whats an armchair argument? "Southgate lead England to a final and a SF so he must know things" - this is one. Lacking any context of how easy these routes were given the talent in the squad.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
You are talking like Southgate's England beat the very best out there to reach those stages. In fact the only big name team they have beaten so far is Germany who themselves have done nothing since 2017.

England are doing the bare minimum in beating the likes of Denmark, Ukraine, Sweden, Senegal with the amount of talent they got.

They have lost to Belgium(twice), Croatia, Italy and France and consequently got knocked out. They never beat any good opponent.

You know whats an armchair argument? "Southgate lead England to a final and a SF so he must know things" - this is one. Lacking any context of how easy these routes were given the talent in the squad.
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I'm no Southgate fanboi, and I get just as irate as any sane fan with the team selections and the favouritism at times - but you have to look at these things in the cold light of day. You mention the talent in the squad - that 2018 team was crap! The midfield in particular was horrific. Much more talented England sides have departed major tournaments way earlier than that shower of shite.

By the time of the Euros, the squad was in better shape, but still no functional midfield - that's what got found out against Italy - and that was a very experienced Italy side playing well containing some great players for whom it was a last hurrah. At any point over the last 50 years that Italy team would have been kryponite for England. We still (and the young players are way ahead of their peers from 10, 20, 30 years ago) are not quite technically as good as the very best on average.

In the last world cup we came up against the best team in the tournament (player for player) a team of grizzled winners, containing the best player in the world who had already set the tournament alight and would score a hat trick in the final! And it was a good game which we were a tad unlucky to lose in normal time.

With a better manager, could the details have been tightened up and might we have won those key games? Maybe. Has our performance been massively under par? Nope - unless you think we have the best players in the world. I think they're very good, but not as good as France's for instance. And our midfielders are nowhere near as good as that Italian team's.
 
RedSky said:
Southgate fan bois are weird.
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Surely labelling people who don't jump on the Southgate is terrible bandwagon fan Bois is also a bit weird? It's possible to be somewhere in the middle
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
You are talking like Southgate's England beat the very best out there to reach those stages. In fact the only big name team they have beaten so far is Germany who themselves have done nothing since 2017.

England are doing the bare minimum in beating the likes of Denmark, Ukraine, Sweden, Senegal with the amount of talent they got.

They have lost to Belgium(twice), Croatia, Italy and France and consequently got knocked out. They never beat any good opponent.

You know whats an armchair argument? "Southgate lead England to a final and a SF so he must know things" - this is one. Lacking any context of how easy these routes were given the talent in the squad.
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I think you have nailed it here.
 
dugilrath said:
I'm no Southgate fanboi, and I get just as irate as any sane fan with the team selections and the favouritism at times - but you have to look at these things in the cold light of day. You mention the talent in the squad - that 2018 team was crap! The midfield in particular was horrific. Much more talented England sides have departed major tournaments way earlier than that shower of shite.

By the time of the Euros, the squad was in better shape, but still no functional midfield - that's what got found out against Italy - and that was a very experienced Italy side playing well containing some great players for whom it was a last hurrah. At any point over the last 50 years that Italy team would have been kryponite for England. We still (and the young players are way ahead of their peers from 10, 20, 30 years ago) are not quite technically as good as the very best on average.

In the last world cup we came up against the best team in the tournament (player for player) a team of grizzled winners, containing the best player in the world who had already set the tournament alight and would score a hat trick in the final! And it was a good game which we were a tad unlucky to lose in normal time.

With a better manager, could the details have been tightened up and might we have won those key games? Maybe. Has our performance been massively under par? Nope - unless you think we have the best players in the world. I think they're very good, but not as good as France's for instance. And our midfielders are nowhere near as good as that Italian team's.
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If you just start making excuses for every defeat then there's no real room for argument. At some point they need to start winning something but have done feck all. Even got relegated in the nations league.
 
The thing is, the losses were on him, too. The worst thing is, our two worst losses - Croatia in the SF 18 & Italy in the final - were carbon copies. He didn't learn from Croatia where, after gaining the lead, he decided to park the bus like a league one side, bringing constant pressure on us which inevitably caused us to crumble.

I don't know about everyone else, but as soon as Shaw scored in the final and we reverted to such tactics despite having the players to dominate Italy, I immediately got flashbacks of the Croatia game.

Then you have the France game where he showed his agenda again when it comes to favouritism rather than playing the best player for the role. He gave Rashford - our top goalscorer and in form player - about 5 minutes but still brought on Sterling, who I like, before him after he had to fly back home after his family suffered a break in if I remember correctly, so he was in no state to play and inevitably put in a bad performance.
 
Andersonson said:
Comment all you want, but calling someone clueless when last euro they made the finals is a fecking weird statement.

Not your type of manager? Fine
Not agree with tactics? Fine
I think others will do a better job? Fine

Shit? No. Its an armchair statement plain and simple. You dont get to a final in such a tournament while being shit. The dressing room would fall apart long before it. To coach the kind of players that belong at the very very top of the game requires _a lot_. A clueless guy wouldnt manage it.
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"Shit" is obviously relative to the level they're competing at.

Players who I watch in league one and brand amazing at that level I'd probably be equally cussing and calling shit if they were playing for Chelsea.
 
SilentWitness said:


As if they need to play the same in the national team as they do for their club. Also he says this but then plays Maguire who doesn't even play for his club. Just waffling as usual.
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Not to mention that he's been playing Maddison off the left... who has played every game for Spurs as a central attacking mid.
 
SilentWitness said:


As if they need to play the same in the national team as they do for their club. Also he says this but then plays Maguire who doesn't even play for his club. Just waffling as usual.
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I get the logic to an extent but Southgate has played TAA as a proper midfielder which is even more experimental. It's fine if Southgate doesn't believe Foden can play in CM, he should just say so rather than hiding behind Pep.
 
V.O. said:
Not to mention that he's been playing Maddison off the left... who has played every game for Spurs as a central attacking mid.
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He did play their for Leicester at times but yeah, at Spurs he's been more central.

saivet said:
I get the logic to an extent but Southgate has played TAA as a proper midfielder which is even more experimental. It's fine if Southgate doesn't believe Foden can play in CM, he should just say so rather than hiding behind Pep.
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Forgot about that. He's a Muppet.
 
He's blessed to have the best attacking squad in living memory, the depth is insane.

And still he plays conservatively and loses to the first decent team England comes across.

People get it mixed up - England are good now in spite of Southgate, not because of him. Even a semi attacking manager beats Italy in the Euros and gives Grealish and Rashford more than 2 minutes against France. Manager's like Pep and Klopp would win both tournaments with their eyes closed.

That said though the level of international managers is generally pretty bad so it's not inconceivable that whoever they'd get to replace Southgate would be even worse.
 
SilentWitness said:


As if they need to play the same in the national team as they do for their club. Also he says this but then plays Maguire who doesn't even play for his club. Just waffling as usual.
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Got to be cautious against Ukraine :nono: they are genius at passing the ball using angles... or something.
 
The guy has a lot of good qualities and there is a role in the FA he'd probably be legitimately great at, it's just not being manager.
 
I’m still baffled why he played Guehi and then brought on Maguire with l, Tomori and Colwill on the bench. This was a friendly, why not give them guys game time otherwise what’s the point of them being in the squad.
 
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TheGame said:
I’m still baffled why he played Pickford, Guehi and then brought on Maguire with Johnstone, Tomori and Colwill on the bench. This was a friendly, why not give them guys game time otherwise what’s the point of them being in the squad.
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He really needs to explain himself. Rio nailed it, what happens if one of his loyal players gets a knock in a tournament and he has to bring on someone completely untested at this level?
 
TheGame said:
I’m still baffled why he played Pickford, Guehi and then brought on Maguire with Johnstone, Tomori and Colwill on the bench. This was a friendly, why not give them guys game time otherwise what’s the point of them being in the squad.
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I think it's ego and stubbornness. 'I still call the shots around here, let Harry show what a great servant he's been to England'.. cue inevitable own goal. If I was Tomori, i'd be getting pretty pissed by now. Can't do any good for morale. It's clear he's got his favourites which points to his decisions being made on some kind of social indicator rather than performance based ones.
 
He's being carried by the natural talent of this team. Can't wait until he's gone, hopefully it's not too late when he is.
 
The midfield 3 has to be
Foden Rice Bellingham

Kane will play as the striker, which leaves 2 wide players from about 6.
 
TheGame said:
I’m still baffled why he played Pickford, Guehi and then brought on Maguire with Johnstone, Tomori and Colwill on the bench. This was a friendly, why not give them guys game time otherwise what’s the point of them being in the squad.
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Pickford? Didn't Ramsdale play tonight?
 
Josh 76 said:
The midfield 3 has to be
Foden Rice Bellingham

Kane will play as the striker, which leaves 2 wide players from about 6.
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Is there any top international team that plays with one defensive mid and 2 attacking ones? It might be one more mistake trying to fit in as many players as possible without much thought about balance.

Look like Bellingham is playing his best football in more attacking role, not sure if Foden plays as CM for City (not that it matter as they all play in final third). It's a tricky situation for England as best 11 should have Foden and Bellingham but that might not be their best team considering balance and all.

Maybe Foden as LW moving centrally with Bellingham as AM and Saka as RW.
 
Southgate is horrible. England has done as well as they have in spite of him, not because of him. And there is no doubt in my mind that they would have done better with a different manager in charge. When Sir Gareth does eventually get the sack, no big team will pick him up.
 
Souness talking sense for once re Southgate being too defensive minded and lacking courage. Insinuated he’s not the right man for the job.

The English pundits won’t criticise him.
 
The talent we have has totally outgrown his level of management. We're simply too good to be managed by someone who would have been more fitting to managing us 10 or so years ago.
 
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