England Discussion

WC 2014 England was last in the group stage
EC 2016 England got eliminated by Iceland 2nd round
Let that sink in.

Southgate deserves a contract extension.
 
wangyu said:
WC 2014 England was last in the group stage
EC 2016 England got eliminated by Iceland 2nd round
Let that sink in.

Southgate deserves a contract extension.
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This group of players is better than 2014 and 2016.

Pretty much any manager other than Southgate would do better.
 
SirReginald said:
Honestly not surprised. He wouldn’t be getting many offers for top jobs so just stick out the one you have. He will go on to continuing brown nosing for the FA as the master puppet that he is and England will continue to suffer from his many tactical and personnel mistakes because he doesn’t have a brain. Once the next tournament passes us by maybe the FA will realize he is to England what Martinez was to Belgium.
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This.

Many have been sucked into this moralising crap Southgate spouts.. he's still the Middlesbrough manager to me. No one cares whether he is sensitive and considerate because many people in everyday life are this way. But he seems to make a point of it.

England are no better now than they were at the Euros or at the last World Cup. And Southgate knows it. That's why no big club want him.

He's an FA man. So they'll keep him because he's good for the FA 'brand'.

I cannot believe, nor understand why England's recent world cup campaign has been seen as a success by some. With the players we have, and the teams we faced, we should stroll to a Qtr Final. That's no great achievement.

But for Southgate, it earns him a new contract.

Winning something under Southgate is a hope rather than a plan.
 
International Team managers aren't there to implement new systems or complicated tactics. They don't have the time for it as the players are only a few weeks together.

Therefore, I'm pretty sure Pep wouldn't be able to replicate his club success with an international side. He would need the team being together for months or longer. Except he will change his style totally.
 
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Bosnian_fan said:
Just as Capello and earlier Erikson, Mourinho is past his best. So having him in and lamenting after his failure that "England tried with world-class managers and look how that turned out" is wrong.

Tuchel, I'm certain, would do a better job. But generally yes, managers are pretty limited with what they can do and how much of that they can instill in an international side. However, there are examples that it's possible.

Italy had a distinct playing style, both in EURO 2016 with Conte and in 2021 with Mancini. You could simply see it was their work. And you could argue that they both achieved as much as was expected or more.

Spain has failed in this tournament, but has been very impressive in last EURO, practically they are the only side that outplayed Italy.
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Capello in the three years prior to taking the England job (well one of them he’d already taken the job but the circumstances are what they were) won 2x Serie A and 1x La Liga. Not bad for being past it.
 
He did, but he was pretty much found out in his last Real Madrid stint. Same can be said about Eriksson, who won Serie A in 2000 with Lazio, and become England manager less than a year later. It was obvious even back then that football was changing in a ways neither Capello nor Eriksson were capable or willing to follow. It would be the same with Jose, although his fall from grace is even more evident.
 
B. Munich said:
International Team managers aren't there to implement new systems or complicated tactics. They don't have the time for it as the players are only a few weeks together.
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This is painfully untrue and you just need to look at Morocco in the WC to see it. It's a shit excuse for mediocre managers. It's obviously not the same job as a club manager but of course tactics are a big part of the job.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
This is painfully untrue and you just need to look at Morocco in the WC to see it. It's a shit excuse for mediocre managers. It's obviously not the same job as a club manager but of course tactics are a big part of the job.
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I was talking about the likes of Guardiola and Klopp who themselves said several times they need a year or more to get the team really playing their style of football.

International managers don't have the time to do that as they are together with the players only for a couple of weeks at each international break.
 
B. Munich said:
I was talking about the likes of Guardiola and Klopp who themselves said several times they need a year or more to get the team really playing their style of football.

International managers don't have the time to do that as they are together with the players only for a couple of weeks at each international break.
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But how were Italy in EURO 2020 and Spain ever since Luis Enrique took over playing distinct styles then? How did Low make it with Germany? Bielsa had some gung-ho style with Chile too.

Of course it's possible. The level will obviously not be the same as in club football, but stylistically, it's absolutely possible to make your side play the way you want them to.
 
He's done an OK job, he's made it relatively deep in tournaments beating teams he should beat. He hasn't beat a team ranked above him at any of the major tournaments.

I feel a better manager would have won one of the last two. His team selections are ok but his substitutions have been too slow and quite frankly terrible against Italy in extra time. How he didn't bring on fresh legs against Italys aging back line still beggars belief, he just didn't want to win as much as he didn't want to lose.

He will likely do OK in 2 years time without winning and england will likely rue wasting their best ever squad.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
But how were Italy in EURO 2020 and Spain ever since Luis Enrique took over playing distinct styles then? How did Low make it with Germany? Bielsa had some gung-ho style with Chile too.

Of course it's possible. The level will obviously not be the same as in club football, but stylistically, it's absolutely possible to make your side play the way you want them to.
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But the second problem is related: What manager who can do that wants to work on the schedule of a national team? You basically have one tournament every two years and see your players a couple weeks at a time a few times a year. There's not really that much payoff. At the club level, you have three or four tournaments every year. You have matches every week and see your players for the better part of ten months out of the year.
 
LordSpud said:
Nah France will be there again, Netherlands starting to come through, Croatia look decent enough, Germany should (emphasis on 'should') bounce back, Italy not to be overlooked...
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France is clearly better than any other squad, but England is not inferior to Spain, Portugal, Germany, or Italy. Reaching the finals again should be a realistic target.
 
Says it all that he brought Sterling on before Rashford when chasing a lead.. despite the form Rashford was in.. and the fact Sterling wouldn't be fully focused due to going home for the breakin..

Utter shite decisions. He'd of never dropped Ronaldo if he was in Santo's shoes.
 
Any one listened to the Rio, Lampard and Gerrard discussion on why the golden generation failed?

It's interesting that they said that England would play well during qualification and early rounds but when coming up against a good team they were outdone by little guys with skill.

How has it been different under Southgate?
 
Gator Nate said:
But the second problem is related: What manager who can do that wants to work on the schedule of a national team? You basically have one tournament every two years and see your players a couple weeks at a time a few times a year. There's not really that much payoff. At the club level, you have three or four tournaments every year. You have matches every week and see your players for the better part of ten months out of the year.
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There's much more opportunity to get found out at club level than international level alongside the increased competitiveness and no of games. Over 20 games, if you lose two that can be seen as fine (even if the 18 games you played were all against teams with limited resources). If you play 200 games and lose 50, against teams your equal or slightly worse, with better resources, you get (rightly) shitcanned - many such cases but see: Solskjaer, Moyes, Lampard, Tuchel, Brendan Rogers etc etc

Southgates humiliation Vs Hungary and losing every single game Vs a peer are the reality. France backing off while winning and that being mistaken for England "playing well" (when France looked far more dangerous right up to their goal) is the facade here. But the rewards: eternal glory and winning a world cup, huge wages etc would be enough to at least entice a better manager than Southgate. Look at Zidanes patience for that France job (although, is that going to happen now?)
 
Goes completely under the radar how Sir Gareth only gave Rashford 5 minutes against France. It's not like he was in any worse form at the time, he was averaging a goal ever 45 mins at the tournament.
 
Samid said:
Goes completely under the radar how Sir Gareth only gave Rashford 5 minutes against France. It's not like he was in any worse form at the time, he was averaging a goal ever 45 mins at the tournament.
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Exactly.

What a waste because we could have easily beat France even if we didn’t win the final.


I wonder if we sign Kane and him and Rashford blend well as team mates if that gets in to Southgates head much better.
 
His loyalty to people is arguably his biggest strength and biggest weakness.
 
Samid said:
Goes completely under the radar how Sir Gareth only gave Rashford 5 minutes against France. It's not like he was in any worse form at the time, he was averaging a goal ever 45 mins at the tournament.
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2 minutes earlier, and he could have calmly scored the penalty that Kane skied.


Rashy in a decisive moment vs french opposition:

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Pintu said:
2 minutes earlier, and he could have calmly scored the penalty that Kane skied.


Rashy in a decisive moment vs french opposition:

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Phuuu...I'm not sure I would have been able to look on the screen if he steped up for that pen. :lol:
 


He's actually trying to rewrite history. Rashford was in great form before the tournament and one of the most productive players at the actual tournament.
 
He’s just so arrogant. It’s so transparent that he knows he’s not up to the job and every interview he does has a passive aggressive tone to it with subtle blame on others and constant absolution of blame on himself.

He presents is as confidence in his own decisions and own ability but in reality it’s just a constant stream of excuses for failing to deliver and constantly setting expectations as low as possible despite having a squad most managers could only dream of.
 
If the players didn't believe then surely this translates from the manager and coaching staff or rather the failure of the manager to get some belief instilled into them? In that case then it seems this team hasn't believed we could win a tournament for the past 3 competitions.
 
Rashford was playing very well and should've been used more, said that at time. Sterling has been poor for a while and shouldn't have been playing. Southgate paid the price for a conservative muddled approach that's been happening through the nations league and through the World Cup.
 
Pexbo said:
He’s just so arrogant. It’s so transparent that he knows he’s not up to the job and every interview he does has a passive aggressive tone to it with subtle blame on others and constant absolution of blame on himself.

He presents is as confidence in his own decisions and own ability but in reality it’s just a constant stream of excuses for failing to deliver and constantly setting expectations as low as possible despite having a squad most managers could only dream of.
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Honestly reading his interviews it's no wonder he's such a fan of Maguire. Both come off lacking serious self awareness and passive aggressive constantly.

Also that answer is hilarious. The only reason Rashford made it into the squad is because of how well he was playing since the start of the season. And he looked dynamic in every appearance at the WC, while every other LW (let's not forget he started off with Sterling) looked poor
 
redshaw said:
Rashford was playing very well and should've been used more, said that at time. Sterling has been poor for a while and shouldn't have been playing. Southgate paid the price for a conservative muddled approach that's been happening through the nations league and through the World Cup.
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He was given five minutes against France. More than enough time to turn the game around.
 
Samid said:


:lol:
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Honestly, this guy...He just rubs me the wrong way. There's always something or someone to hide behind. I still remember him blaming Greenwood and Foden for England playing badly.

Its hard to believe that England can be successful under someone so quick to hide behind excuses.

In a pressure situation our players need to look to Southgate for inspiration. Knowing that he's probably just working out what line to use to get the media off his back when we fail?
 
Honestly the only real difference I see in managerial quality between Southgate and Ole is that Southgate talks 10x as much shite to the pint it surely grates on some of the players.

When he bought Sterling on for Saka I think is the most angry I've ever been at a manager. It's a bloody world cup quarter final and he's more concerned with showing childish levels of favouritism than winning the game.

He can never even keep his spewl of self saving nonsense to football either. There always has to be some empty headed diatribe about human rights or bringing people together or some other bollocks

Really can't stand him either as a manager or a person
 
Southgate should be nowhere near the managerial job of such a talented squad. If he gets the sack, at best he's looking at lower end PL and even then he's getting relegated. He's a loser.
 
The countries that actually win would have fired this dude right after this world cup.

France were underwhelming and even Morocco outplayed them. They were missing their best players and devised a very simply game plan to get Mbappe to win them games.

Even their keeper was/is shit. They were so there for the tacking.

If the players actually believed they couldn't beat France it came from the overall mentality coming from a coward of a manager that has never won anything.
 
It's the fact people think he's done well that baffles me.

If one of your players flies out of the country all week, then turns up the night before the game having missed EVERY training session, and yet because they're your pal you bring them on ahead of obviously better players (and in place of an obviously better player), that is, extremely obviously, a stackable offence. I mean it's an instantly stackable offence, on its own. You cant be manager of a country and behave like you're managing a sunday league scouts team and one of the players is your son. When you put into context that it was a world cup quarter final, then its also far, far worse.

He's moaning about criticism like he's been hard done by but I've never known anyone to escape so much deserved criticism.
 
noodlehair said:
It's the fact people think he's done well that baffles me.

If one of your players flies out of the country all week, then turns up the night before the game having missed EVERY training session, and yet because they're your pal you bring them on ahead of obviously better players (and in place of an obviously better player), that is, extremely obviously, a stackable offence. I mean it's an instantly stackable offence, on its own. You cant be manager of a country and behave like you're managing a sunday league scouts team and one of the players is your son. When you put into context that it was a world cup quarter final, then its also far, far worse.

He's moaning about criticism like he's been hard done by but I've never known anyone to escape so much deserved criticism.
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Has the media ever criticized him? Really can’t remember. If it was up to the red tops he would be knighted. But they haven’t got a clue and don’t speak for the nation. Gareth Half Wit should stop fighting for his job because he is pretty much unsackable. Talking will just get more people hating you, ask Harry and Meg.
 
noodlehair said:
It's the fact people think he's done well that baffles me.

If one of your players flies out of the country all week, then turns up the night before the game having missed EVERY training session, and yet because they're your pal you bring them on ahead of obviously better players (and in place of an obviously better player), that is, extremely obviously, a stackable offence. I mean it's an instantly stackable offence, on its own. You cant be manager of a country and behave like you're managing a sunday league scouts team and one of the players is your son. When you put into context that it was a world cup quarter final, then its also far, far worse.

He's moaning about criticism like he's been hard done by but I've never known anyone to escape so much deserved criticism.
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Well he is the second most successful England manager ever which doesn't say much about his predecessors
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
The countries that actually win would have fired this dude right after this world cup.

France were underwhelming and even Morocco outplayed them. They were missing their best players and devised a very simply game plan to get Mbappe to win them games.

Even their keeper was/is shit. They were so there for the tacking.

If the players actually believed they couldn't beat France it came from the overall mentality coming from a coward of a manager that has never won anything.
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Morocco outplayed France?

What game did you watch? Keep the underdog bias out, they were toothless most of the match, their midfield was completely shit, and had only 10 good minutes in the second half.

France did what Spain and Portugal couldn't, which was score fast and be more clinical in the last third , that ruined the shithousing that Morocco had planned for the game, and they looked toothless when they needed the equalizer, except for 10 minutes.

I know this is an anglo dominated forum, so most wanted France to lose and get humiliated, but quit the bias, by no means Morocco outplayed France except for 10 minutes in the second half.

And France didn't miss much Pogba, Griezmann filled the role pretty much perfectly, best french player the whole tournament for me, despite not scoring.
 
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