What England needed to do, had to put pressure back on the bowlers
England Cricket Summer 17 - South Africa & West Indies
- Thread starter ChrisNelson
- Start date
Absolutely, so good to have someone like Root in the team to be able to bat like this. He's ridiculous.
Root gone, can see us struggling to make 250 in these conditions.
Yep, they really shouldn't be letting us get beyond that, from here.
That decision 
Enjoyable test match so far.
Cracking pitch.
Cracking pitch.
Root and Bairstow aside, terrible effort. Not sure anyone else in the England team can bat quickly on this pitch bar those two.
Wow, it's only day two and we've got SA batting again. Wonder if SA can bat England out of the game by same time tomorrow (if it gets to that)
In the end, a truly pathetic effort from England.
We do not deserve anything from this Test after that.
SA get anything more than 170/180 and we're gone.
We do not deserve anything from this Test after that.
SA get anything more than 170/180 and we're gone.
SA's bowling attack is terrific. Maharaj has added a good dimension to it. Previously it was always 3 very good fast bowlers + a containing bowler.
With Rabada and Steyn to come back into this lineup, quite the pace attack.
With Rabada and Steyn to come back into this lineup, quite the pace attack.
Don't think England can chase 340 on this, let alone whatever target Saffers will put.
No, I think it's fair to say that South Africa will win this one.
Off topic but watched a cracking T20 game between Essex and Glamorgan in Chelmsford. Glamorgan won on the last ball with a 6. Some South African called Ingram smacked 120,never heard of him! Was class watching Amir bowl as well, finished with pretty poor figures but looked threatening and was unlucky with some fluke shots from the batsman ending with 4 runs.
Brilliant 4 overs to watch.
Colin Ingram. Played for SA briefly and looked very talented..
Yeah he was excellent. 32 years old so his time has gone, but was super talented.
Right then. I'm up for 2 days with a run rate of about 1. Crack on lads.
Hate to nitpick but it's concerning to see no one going on to get a hundred again today though Amla played well. England to be all out by tea?
Jennings out for 3 in the second over of the day. England currently 8/1. To say it's 'not looking good' could be an understatement - but fear not, Gary Ballance is in at 3 
Ballance gone as well now. Pro and Morne making the new ball talk.
Ballance has done nothing in tests for years. Just 2 scores over 50 since May 2015.
All out before tea I reckon.
Cracking yorker.
Tbf to England the ball to Root was ridiculous and Jennings (although he did himself no favours) got a pretty good one as well.
Moeen Ali and Bairstow's shots were pathetic.
This South Africa team is missing three of their best players btw, great achievement from them if they win it.
This South Africa team is missing three of their best players btw, great achievement from them if they win it.
Great performance by SA after the Lord's defeat.
England's batting needs changing. They've never replaced Strauss at the top of the order & Ballance is not Test quality. He's had enough chances & failed every time.
England's batting needs changing. They've never replaced Strauss at the top of the order & Ballance is not Test quality. He's had enough chances & failed every time.
Root awakening.
Root needs to realise picking his best friends isn't the way to run a Test side and some of his decision-making on the field was questionable.
Lets hope some players are axed.
The buck starts and stops with Bayliss for me. Aggression at all costs does not work in test cricket.
I think Stoneman should be the next cab off the rank to open. Jennings & Ballance, whether people think they are Test quality or not simply aren't in form at the moment.
Stoneman averages nearly 60 in the Championship this season. The Championship is in a bit of a break at the moment while T20 takes over, so if no one is playing red ball cricket then no one can be in form at red ball cricket, so there's an argument for leaving the team as it is and sending them to the nets for the next 18 days.
Dawson was a strange selection from the start, he's neither a good enough batsman nor bowler to merit his place at this level. Decent L/O player but that's it. Rashid has to come in for him.
The ECB won't have it on their radar but there is an argument to re-visit people like Bell and Pietersen if they can still offer runs to the team, because too many others aren't offering them.
The injury to Woakes was a shame because he was getting better and better, for the next Test it seems almost certain Wood will make way for Ball in the bowling department.
As I said earlier that Ballance, Jennings and Dawson aren't test quality at all. England can't always look for Root, Stokes to bail them out.
Wow that was quite embarrassing. Especially as all the English experts were predicting an England whitewash after the first test...
Interesting series, now.
Two sides that can't really bat but sometimes come good.
So far, the toss has been crucial.
Two sides that can't really bat but sometimes come good.
So far, the toss has been crucial.
Don't think we should buckle to the pressure and pick an extra batsman. The problem is that two of the five batsmen we've got are hugely suspect. Surely, if we want to strengthen the batting, we've got to replace them before we pick an extra one?
Playing six bowlers should give us the tools for every surface and should also allow us to groom a spinner for the long-term. Whether it be Rachid or Crane, they can grow into international cricket without too much pressure - there's plenty of other bowlers to share the workload and if they get cowed they can be taken off, no problem.
The big mistake we've made is playing Dawson over one of the leggies. He's essentially a weaker version of Moeen Ali and we don't need that. Far better to have a wicket-taking spinner who can be developed for the long haul.
Playing six bowlers should give us the tools for every surface and should also allow us to groom a spinner for the long-term. Whether it be Rachid or Crane, they can grow into international cricket without too much pressure - there's plenty of other bowlers to share the workload and if they get cowed they can be taken off, no problem.
The big mistake we've made is playing Dawson over one of the leggies. He's essentially a weaker version of Moeen Ali and we don't need that. Far better to have a wicket-taking spinner who can be developed for the long haul.
Bell's my all-time favourite Eng player but he's been crap for ages now. Averaging about 30 in the Championship. Seems like he's just dropped off a cliff - maybe eyes have gone.
Petersen is just too old for a comeback now, plus when was his last first-class match?
Agree with the sentiment above. Dawson got 18 runs and bowled just 18 of the 200 overs. Not sure why he was picked. England had the same problem in India, too many bowlers and not enough proper batsmen. I feel sorry for Moeen Ali, you get the sense he just wants to be picked at 3, 4 or 5 and focus principally on getting runs. If he's the 5th bowler fine but England should pick someone else to be their frontline spinner. Ballance is out for the Oval anyway, Morkel broke his finger, probably does SA more harm than good. I'd pick Stoneman at 3, Ali at 5, move Bairstow to 7 with Stokes at 6, same 3 seamers and a proper frontline spinne.r.
For the Proteas, the batting order is also a mess. There's a keeper opening, another keeper at 4 while there's a batsmen at 6. Kuhn will probably get another chance but they should just shift to Markram. He is the future at the top of the order, might as well give him the opportunity instead of to Kuhn who frankly probably isn't Test calibre. Bavuma has to bat in the top 5 for me if he's going to play. I know they're trying to turn him into the sort of X factor number 6 but while he is an excellent fielder, his bowling is rubbish. He needs to get runs if he is going to stay in this team. Quotas or no quotas, they're doing him no favours by babying him. If he can't get runs, drop him. Zondo has made runs domestically recently if they have to have another black batsmen. De Kock should be at 6 at least if he is the keeper. Elgar, Markram, Amla, Du Plessis, Bavuma/De Bruyn, De Kock, Philander, Morris, Maharaj, Morkel, Rabada.
For the Proteas, the batting order is also a mess. There's a keeper opening, another keeper at 4 while there's a batsmen at 6. Kuhn will probably get another chance but they should just shift to Markram. He is the future at the top of the order, might as well give him the opportunity instead of to Kuhn who frankly probably isn't Test calibre. Bavuma has to bat in the top 5 for me if he's going to play. I know they're trying to turn him into the sort of X factor number 6 but while he is an excellent fielder, his bowling is rubbish. He needs to get runs if he is going to stay in this team. Quotas or no quotas, they're doing him no favours by babying him. If he can't get runs, drop him. Zondo has made runs domestically recently if they have to have another black batsmen. De Kock should be at 6 at least if he is the keeper. Elgar, Markram, Amla, Du Plessis, Bavuma/De Bruyn, De Kock, Philander, Morris, Maharaj, Morkel, Rabada.
England are unbelievably inconsistent with their batting. So many players like Cook, Root, Stokes, Ali that you would be just as likely to be expecting them to be out first ball as you would be expecting them to make a century. So frustrating. Bairstow has probably been the most consistent recently but obviously doesn't make as high scores as Root.
Very fair points but in comparison to Jennings & Ballance, would do they a worse job? They both have vast experience and excellent records at this level. I don't think they would be phased mentally in the way that the current incumbents seem to be.
I think they are both very long shots because of their ages and the time that has passed but I certainly wouldn't be disappointed to see them pull on an England shirt again, and this time last year there's no way I thought I would be saying that.
Pietersen has given himself the bigger problem of the 2 because he has made no effort to play first class cricket since his last Test. Which is fair enough given the riches on offer in T20 cricket but at the age of 37 he is done.