England Cricket Summer 17 - South Africa & West Indies

Yes we are heavily reliant on the runs of 5 out of the top 8 because we know the other 3 spots are uncertain. But this XI is still looking favourite to record the first home series win over South Africa in nearly 20 years. People also forget James Taylor could quite easily have made that #3 spot his own for a decade but for his health problems.
Moeen is in a good spot at #8, I certainly wouldn't be looking to move him any higher than #7 because of the counter attacking nature of his game. We are lucky that Bairstow's keeping has improved so much and he forms a great cushion between Stokes and Moeen, and if Root and/ or Cook come off too then we will still post good scores more often than not. Sooner or later someone will take the trouble spots and make them their own, it just takes patience.
 
Snowjoe said:
Yep agree with you on pretty much all of that. I wouldn't mind Moeen being bumped up the order like you say, not really higher than 5 or 6 as he seems to thrive further down with more reign to hit some runs.

We have been lucky to have the depth lower down to dig us out of these holes but will be found out by better teams.
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Feels like this has been going on for years.
 
It's been said a million times but the amount of limited over cricket can't be helping. Must be so hard to get into test mode.

Anyway, Amla needs to go.
 
Massive wicket of Amla taken by Moeen Ali!!! Should be game over from here.

Thanks to DRS review system. Thats a shocking decision by the umpire
 
ChrisNelson said:
Yes we are heavily reliant on the runs of 5 out of the top 8 because we know the other 3 spots are uncertain. But this XI is still looking favourite to record the first home series win over South Africa in nearly 20 years. People also forget James Taylor could quite easily have made that #3 spot his own for a decade but for his health problems.
Moeen is in a good spot at #8, I certainly wouldn't be looking to move him any higher than #7 because of the counter attacking nature of his game. We are lucky that Bairstow's keeping has improved so much and he forms a great cushion between Stokes and Moeen, and if Root and/ or Cook come off too then we will still post good scores more often than not. Sooner or later someone will take the trouble spots and make them their own, it just takes patience.
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Only because this is the poorest version of South African cricket we've seen in 20 years.

This approach will get found out vs Aussies in Winter or India next summer
 
Proteas have been so poor, especially the batting. Team is a shambles from the coaching situation to the quotas and Koplak issue to the ABDV situation.
Congrats to the Poms, they played well enough but will need to find some proper batsmen before the Ashes. Starc and Hazelwood will be a bigger test.
 
sammsky1 said:
By a country mile!!!

Does that mean he is on a hat trick when he bowls his next ball in a test match?
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Don't think it counts if it's across matches!

Just read he's the first in a 4 match test to get both 250 runs and 25 wickets. Some effort from the so called "second spinner".
 
I don't think England were worth the 3-1 series scoreline. South Africa throttled them the one time they won the toss. Win toss, bat first, win match.
 
Moeen Ali, what a legend. Brilliant display. 25 wickets, 251 runs, 4 tests.
 
Yorkeontop said:
I don't think England were worth the 3-1 series scoreline. South Africa throttled them the one time they won the toss. Win toss, bat first, win match.
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Both teams had weak top orders and excellent bowling attacks. The difference was England's bowlers stayed fit (and unbanned) and their middle-order depth got them out of holes more often than not. Steyn and AB big misses for SA.
 
Hales boshing 218 batting @ 5 lays further credence to my theory that he'll replace Malan. Also Hameed is in the runs! I fancy for the 1st Test vs WI:

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Hales boshing 218 batting @ 5 lays further credence to my theory that he'll replace Malan. Also Hameed is in the runs!
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Think they'll give Malan more time but god knows why.

I thought they might pick Hameed anyway, but seems a certainty now.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Think they'll give Malan more time but god knows why.

I thought they might pick Hameed anyway, but seems a certainty now.
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Malan is one of the strangest test caps of all time. You could have pushed Bairstow to 5 and given the gloves to Foakes or given Joe Clarke a chance but if you wanted to get funky and give a one-day bolter a go surely Hales and Buttler are better choices?
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Both teams had weak top orders and excellent bowling attacks. The difference was England's bowlers stayed fit (and unbanned) and their middle-order depth got them out of holes more often than not. Steyn and AB big misses for SA.
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Neither team reacted well to first innings scoreboard pressure (and we not even talking 500 on the board). Sad state really. Would gladly give England full credit for 3-1 had they done so at least once.
 
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Yorkeontop said:
Neither team reacted well to first innings scoreboard pressure (and we not even talking 500 on the board). Sad state really.
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To be fair the last 2 pitches had plenty in them on Day 1 and I just think England batted and bowled better.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Malan is one of the strangest test caps of all time. You could have pushed Bairstow to 5 and given the gloves to Foakes or given Joe Clarke a chance but if you wanted to get funky and give a one-day bolter a go surely Hales and Buttler are better choices?
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Agreed. Apart from taking the gloves off Bairstow. He's become an excellent test keeper over the past year.

Malan is symptomatic of England's idiot in chief. Bayliss doesn't rate the CC, and he doesn't watch it, but he is a selector for god knows what reason. They use bilateral T20 series to blood players, and then use the results of that to say 'X has proven they can do it on an international stage' ignoring the fact that no amount of correct mindset will make up for a basic lack of ability in the longest form of the game.

I still think Dawson is the most egregious selection so far though. He has a decent first class record, but his entire England career is down to one net session. It makes a farce of the whole thing.
 
Anyway, that Test match championship couldn't come quick enough. We need a new context for tests, history is only enough for one series (Ashes). Day night matches a great start. Give me 4 day matches and the away side automatically winning the toss. Home teams then more than allowed to consult with groundsmen, not like pitch can be influenced daily.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Agreed. Apart from taking the gloves off Bairstow. He's become an excellent test keeper over the past year.

Malan is symptomatic of England's idiot in chief. Bayliss doesn't rate the CC, and he doesn't watch it, but he is a selector for god knows what reason. They use bilateral T20 series to blood players, and then use the results of that to say 'X has proven they can do it on an international stage' ignoring the fact that no amount of correct mindset will make up for a basic lack of ability in the longest form of the game.

I still think Dawson is the most egregious selection so far though. He has a decent first class record, but his entire England career is down to one net session. It makes a farce of the whole thing.
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Not sure Dawson would have got picked at all if Woakes was fit. But the whole 'he's our no.1 spinner' stuff was pretty bad.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Not sure Dawson would have got picked at all if Woakes was fit. But the whole 'he's our no.1 spinner' stuff was pretty bad.
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Think he probably would have, they don't want to play 5 seamers (quite rightly too) so Woakes would have played for Wood I think.
 
Fair play to Moeen Ali. He's been England's MVP in this series.
 
Beware of the inevitable overreaction to a spinner's performance against SA. Ali wasn't that good with the ball in India just a few months ago.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Think they'll give Malan more time but god knows why.

I thought they might pick Hameed anyway, but seems a certainty now.
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Don't know about that re Hameed
One score today shouldn't be enough, particularly one that didn't seem particularly fluent early on, the opening stand for Lancs today was 129, Alex Davies scored 97 of those before he was dismissed, Hameed had 17 (from 62 balls). Let him keep learning outside the test arena.

And re Malan, I could see Rashid or someone come in, another bowler, maybe him or Woakes, they will want Woakes involved, but also want TRJ involved as well
 
EdWeatherall said:
Don't know about that re Hameed
One score today shouldn't be enough, particularly one that didn't seem particularly fluent early on, the opening stand for Lancs today was 129, Alex Davies scored 97 of those before he was dismissed, Hameed had 17 (from 62 balls). Let him keep learning outside the test arena.

And re Malan, I could see Rashid or someone come in, another bowler, maybe him or Woakes, they will want Woakes involved, but also want TRJ involved as well
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I'm not saying what I think should happen, I'm saying what I think will happen.

We've got a fairly gentle test series coming up against WI before an Ashes series away. I think they'll try and give Hameed some more exposure to international cricket, even if there are other players in better nick, and hope he can play himself out of this rough patch. They like him and they want to take him to Australia, I'm not sure the same can be said for Stoneman for whatever reason.

Don't think they like the balance of five seamers (neither do I) the rumours are they'll keep Malan and that Woakes isn't fit but Hales at five might be the best option.
 
sammsky1 said:
Only because this is the poorest version of South African cricket we've seen in 20 years.

This approach will get found out vs Aussies in Winter or India next summer
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You can only beat what is in front of you. I would also say South Africa have players who would walk in to the England team:

Elgar > Jennings
Amla > Westley
du Plessis > Malan

On the bowling side Rabada is taking his Test wickets at 24.56 and Philander at 22.45 whereas Broad and Anderson are much closer to 30. With de Villiers and Steyn to come back in (although as I say you can only beat what's in front of you) it's hardly a poor South Africa side.
Due to experience/ quality/ confidence issues (delete as appropriate), England have effectively played that series with a batting line up where it was clear 8 of the 11 would have to do 11 players' worth of batting. Yet they still won the series 3-1 so are we really on a hiding to nothing in Australia? I don't think we are.
 
England are this close to be an incredible test side. If they can sort out the no. 2 and 3 positions in the batting order, then they'll have a fantastic side.
I'd give Westley another chance against the Windies at 3, he looked alright I thought.
I think they have to give Hameed a chance against the Windies. I know he's struggled since he broke his finger last winter, but the lad is clearly something special. His technique is made for test cricket, he gets over the ball well with his head, has excellent footwork and bats with a straight bat.
In Australian conditions England need another spinner or quickie, because they won't make enough impact in Australia bowling 4 fast-medium seamers. Therefore, I also think they need to look at Mason Crane against the Windies, this guy really is something special. He's so like Shane Warne it's uncanny. I don't mean in terms of physique, but in terms of the way he bowls. He really puts some revs on the ball, bowls with accuracy and has already mastered all the variations a leg spinner needs. I know his county and the ECB are doing all they can to keep him out of the limelight at such a young age, but if you're good enough you're old enough. And he was a massive success playing league cricket in Australia last winter. The Ozzies themselves clearly rate him extremely highly and won't fancy facing him.
 
ChrisNelson said:
You can only beat what is in front of you. I would also say South Africa have players who would walk in to the England team:

Elgar > Jennings
Amla > Westley
du Plessis > Malan

On the bowling side Rabada is taking his Test wickets at 24.56 and Philander at 22.45 whereas Broad and Anderson are much closer to 30. With de Villiers and Steyn to come back in (although as I say you can only beat what's in front of you) it's hardly a poor South Africa side.
Due to experience/ quality/ confidence issues (delete as appropriate), England have effectively played that series with a batting line up where it was clear 8 of the 11 would have to do 11 players' worth of batting. Yet they still won the series 3-1 so are we really on a hiding to nothing in Australia? I don't think we are.
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This is also the same South African side that beat Australia in Australia. They also did it without De Villiers and Steyn as well.
 
Congrats to England, deserved winners. As a South African I am obviously disappointed with the result, but hopefully this serves as a catalyst to make the changes necessary. For the last year we have been covering over our deficiencies with victories, making the same selection mistakes over and over. Team needs a bit of a re work and hopefully this tour serves as a wake up!
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Hales boshing 218 batting @ 5 lays further credence to my theory that he'll replace Malan. Also Hameed is in the runs! I fancy for the 1st Test vs WI:

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson
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Woakes in for TRJ I reckon
 
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