England Cricket Summer 17 - South Africa & West Indies

RORY65 said:
It's also caused by England blowing very hot or very cold. Since the team largely changed after the Ashes debacle in 2013/14, in the matches where there were results England have only had one match finish with a margin of less than 75 runs (only 3 below 100) and the closest in terms of wickets was a 5 wicket win. Given that they've drawn 3 series in that time (with results in all of the matches) and had an Ashes series that ended 3-2 with in that period, it shows how wildly their results and performances have swung. The reason they're likely to get a 3-1 here is that South Africa's batting is so brittle that they've not been able to deal with any score on the board.
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Yep, but at least they're capable of the sublime as well as the ridiculous. Only really Elgar Philander and Maharaj have consistently impressed me (Rabada has bowled some good balls but a lot of dross and De Kock a few cameos without making it count).

sammsky1 said:
Batsman no 2 & 3 and replacing Broad and Anderson is a ticking time bomb. Can't see that many nailed on candidates coming through.

Luckily have Bairstow, Stokes and Ali as genuine all rounders helps alot but team will get found out against better test opposition.
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That's been England's problem for a few years. Hameed is the big hope for the opening slot (and I think they will pick him for WI even if he doesn't score runs this week in the CC) but Westley looks a good pick so far and needs a big score to cement his place for a while.

Replacing Anderson will obviously be hard (I don't think they need to worry about Broad for a while yet) but there is talent there. Woakes, Roland Jones, Ball and Wood will compete for two spots and there's s decent production line of young seamers below them. England are better placed here than they have been for a while.

DiseaseOfTheAge said:
It's not the conditions I'm thinking of. It's the pressure that both teams have utterly fallen apart under, when facing a half-decent first effort.
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I really don't think they're fazed by 350 first innings scores though. No one has really put on a monumental total. I just don't think either side have put enough value on their wickets apart from the first day when they know they have to bat sensibly, but they then have gotten carried away when conditions have eased up.
 
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NinjaFletch said:
Yep, but at least they're capable of the sublime as well as the ridiculous. Only really Elgar Philander and Maharaj have consistently impressed me (Rabada has bowled some good bowls but a lot of dross and De Kock a few cameos without making it count).


That's been England's problem for a few years. Hameed is the big hope for the opening slot (and I think they will pick him for WI even if he doesn't score runs this week in the CC) but Westley looks a good pick so far and needs a big score to cement his place for a while.

Replacing Anderson will obviously be hard (I don't think they need to worry about Broad for a while yet) but there is talent there. Woakes, Roland Jones, Ball and Wood will compete for two spots and there's s decent production line of young seamers below them. England are better placed here than they have been for a while.

I really don't think they're fazed by 350 first innings scores though. No one has really put on a monumental total. I just don't think either side have put enough value on their wickets apart from the first day when they know they have to bat sensibly, but they then have gotten carried away when conditions have eased up.
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Agree, there are a number of good young bowlers in CC however it remains to be seen if they get picked. I think Stoneman deserves his chance, really playing well in CC. I think it has helped that England have boosted their batting lineup and they seemed to have learnt from that collapse whereas SA just seem to be batting poorly.
 
Michael Holding saying live on Sky Sports that all of the T20 competitions make no money :D
 
TheGame said:
Erm Cook is decent as well and I think Westley has potential. Need to solve opener issue and look at a decent number 5.
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Cook has been on the decline for while tbh. Not the batsman he was pre-captaincy that's for sure.
 
This is a good little knock from Moeen, just what we needed. 200 runs and 20 wickets so far in this series, hero.
 
Moeen should get Man of the series easily if England win this test match.
 
England should move Bairstow up to 5 and give the gloves to Foakes. Westley looks ok, the other opener is a huge problem but on the balance of it Stoneman deserves a shot. I have a bad feeling Malan @ 5 is going to become Hales @ 5.
 
Dobba said:
First English 200/20 since Flintoff in the 2005 Ashes apparently. Mo has done it in one less test too.
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From the looks of it, six more runs would make him just the second player to get 250 and 20 in series of less than five matches. Hadlee being the other.
 
Utdstar01 said:
Cook has been on the decline for while tbh. Not the batsman he was pre-captaincy that's for sure.
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wtf? This isn't football you know! We're lucky to have an opener who is still one of the best in the World.

Can't see anyone even close to his level coming through, when he retires, a few years away hopefully, we may as well field a 9 man batting line up.

Cook is truly an England great, thank goodness he didn't retire after giving up the captaincy. He's been at the top of his game for 10 years. He should have at least another 5 in him, possibly more.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
From the looks of it, six more runs would make him just the second player to get 250 and 20 in series of less than five matches. Hadlee being the other.
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I was just checking Botham's figures for India's tour of England in 1979. He made what Ali has now - 244, with 20 wickets. Botham only had 5 batting innings to Ali's 8 though ( first test was an innings victory, India batted forever and then it rained in the second, the third was basically a washout). Botham fecked it up with a duck in his final innings that series.
 
Sassy Colin said:
wtf? This isn't football you know! We're lucky to have an opener who is still one of the best in the World.

Can't see anyone even close to his level coming through, when he retires, a few years away hopefully, we may as well field a 9 man batting line up.

Cook is truly an England great, thank goodness he didn't retire after giving up the captaincy. He's been at the top of his game for 10 years. He should have at least another 5 in him, possibly more.
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Never denied that he was a good player, a cracking opener. Merely stating he's not the player he used to be. Far more inconsistent now than he was pre-captaincy.

Its a shame that captaincy sometimes does have a bearing on your game at this level, it happened with Strauss as it did to a lesser degree with Cook.
 
Utdstar01 said:
Never denied that he was a good player, a cracking opener. Merely stating he's not the player he used to be. Far more inconsistent now than he was pre-captaincy.

Its a shame that captaincy sometimes does have a bearing on your game at this level, it happened with Strauss as it did to a lesser degree with Cook.
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He did seem to be batting with a lot of freedom for Essex, I think Morkel just has his number.
 
Still odd not picking him. He was really good last winter and certainly deserved to retain his spot.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Still odd not picking him. He was really good last winter and certainly deserved to retain his spot.
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yeah. what was reason for not automatically regaining his spot?

England have massive issues at No's 2.3 and 5 so i think they should give him a go vs West Indies.
 
sammsky1 said:
yeah. what was reason for not automatically regaining his spot?

England have massive issues at No's 2.3 and 5 so i think they should give him a go vs West Indies.
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I bring it up as Nasser was talking about no one nailing a spot anywhere in the England team since Stokes or Ali. Immediately, I thought of Hameed and in fairness to him, he hasn't been given any further opportunities after a really bright start to his international career. Certainly deserves a spot over Jennings, Ballance and others.
 
Weather for tomorrow looks awful, so wonder whether England will regret not declaring yesterday.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I bring it up as Nasser was talking about no one nailing a spot anywhere in the England team since Stokes or Ali. Immediately, I thought of Hameed and in fairness to him, he hasn't been given any further opportunities after a really bright start to his international career. Certainly deserves a spot over Jennings, Ballance and others.
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Hameed's been in woeful form in CC. I don't think he deserves his spot over Ballance and certainly not over Stoneman. If you put him in now, you will end up with a Jennings type situation and his confidence will be shattered.
 
I've seen a lot of talk recently that England should let Moeen open the batting. Seems a mad suggestion to me. I think he definitely plays his best innings lower down the order with a licence to hit the ball. He opens for us at Worcester in shorter format games but that's a different thing all together.
 
Snowjoe said:
I've seen a lot of talk recently that England should let Moeen open the batting. Seems a mad suggestion to me. I think he definitely plays his best innings lower down the order with a licence to hit the ball. He opens for us at Worcester in shorter format games but that's a different thing all together.
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Doesn't he average above 50 as a number 8? Opening in test cricket is the hardest job and there's absolutely no way Moeen would succeed.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Doesn't he average above 50 as a number 8? Opening in test cricket is the hardest job and there's absolutely no way Moeen would succeed.
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Yeah his average is ridiculous. He's been tried opening for England before and it didn't go well if I recall. I just don't understand all these people thinking it's the answer.
 
TheGame said:
Hameed's been in woeful form in CC. I don't think he deserves his spot over Ballance and certainly not over Stoneman. If you put him in now, you will end up with a Jennings type situation and his confidence will be shattered.
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Ballance has been awful since 2014. Don't follow County Cricket much these days so don't know the other possible options. Just simply based on how he played in India, I'd have thought he'd have been automatically selected for this series. There have been plenty of situations where players have performed brilliantly in domestic cricket and failed in the test area, and vice versa. There was an Indian player - Badrinath, in recent years who tore up the domestic scene and never cut it at international level. With Hameed, you never know, it could be the opposite.
 
Snowjoe said:
Yeah his average is ridiculous. He's been tried opening for England before and it didn't go well if I recall. I just don't understand all these people thinking it's the answer.
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He's the flavour of the month. Be really stupid to ruin what he has going for him. He excels batting at 7/8 and moving him up could be detrimental to his career.
 
M.Ali bats brilliantly with taileneders as he don't have to curb his natural instinct of attacking. He plays his best while taking the attack to bowlers
 
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Snowjoe said:
Yeah his average is ridiculous. He's been tried opening for England before and it didn't go well if I recall. I just don't understand all these people thinking it's the answer.
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In an ideal world these guys remain where they are and England would regulalry post 500+ which they will need to vs Australia and India next summer.

The problem is Englands no 2,3 and 5 batting positions have misfired for quite some time now. Stokes, Bairstow, Ali have become the defacto middle order and the side is currently totally dependent on their batting contributions to remain competitive.

I think Ali lower down suits his style: the bowlers are tired, and if there are some runs on the board, Ali can play his many attackinh shots and help end the innings with momentum and in style. But no 8 is too low for a player in such form. Maybe he could come in at no 5 or 6 with the current no 5 dropping down.
 
sammsky1 said:
In an ideal world these guys remain where they are and England would regulalry post 500+ which they will need to vs Australia and India next summer.

The problem is Englands no 2,3 and 5 batting positions have misfired for quite some time now. Stokes, Bairstow, Ali have become the defacto middle order and the side is currently totally dependent on their batting contributions to remain competitive.

I think Ali lower down suits his style: the bowlers are tired, and if there are some runs on the board, Ali can play his many attackinh shots and help end the innings with momentum and in style. But no 8 is too low for a player in such form. Maybe he could come in at no 5 or 6 with the current no 5 dropping down.
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Yep agree with you on pretty much all of that. I wouldn't mind Moeen being bumped up the order like you say, not really higher than 5 or 6 as he seems to thrive further down with more reign to hit some runs.

We have been lucky to have the depth lower down to dig us out of these holes but will be found out by better teams.
 
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