Exactly, player for player we've had some excellent players. The issue is the cohesion between the team. Getting to the root of this problem as we've seen over the years isn't easy. Capello was hailed as being a world class manager, but when we got to the world cup we were terrible. We may have gone out sooner this time but I preferred this tournament under Roy than the one under Fabio.
England at World Cup 2014
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
Exactly, player for player we've had some excellent players. The issue is the cohesion between the team. Getting to the root of this problem as we've seen over the years isn't easy. Capello was hailed as being a world class manager, but when we got to the world cup we were terrible. We may have gone out sooner this time but I preferred this tournament under Roy than the one under Fabio.
In the qualifiers against the shittiest teams in Europe? My great grandmother would cop a world class performance against San Marino, Moldova & Montenegro and she's half-blind. Don't use those qualifying games to rate players - The opposition are mostly shit.
Terry should have been there with Cahill. Love him or loath him he is England's Puyol and look how shit Spain are without him. Woy doesn't inspire me with any confidence. His team under achieved and could end up 0-3.
Funny how before the tournament England were "pressure-free" for the first time, with no grand expectations to hold them back. Now they're being put next to Spain as the biggest disappointments of the tournament, after narrowly losing to two top sides?
You raise a very good point there....
Terry should have been coaxed back into the squad. He was the best central defender last season and he actually has a chemistry with Cahill. Besides that, Terry is a natural leader. He is very vocal & he instructs his team mates where he wants them to be. Cahill is a good defender but his positioning can be wayward sometimes and Terry would have been a wonderful guide dog for Cahill.
Jaglieka/Cahill partnership was just wrong.
Why do you sound angry when talking about England? Shit like this tells me you are anti-England no matter how good or poor England are. I get the same vibe from that guy from New Zealand.
I come to the conclusion people FEAR a strong England - I think the thought of the home of football and the country with arguably the best league in the world and the country who spends the most money also having the best national side in the world, people fear it and don't like it and rejoice when failure happens.
Because unlike you, I call a spade what it is. Admitting there's a problem in the structure is the first step to redemption. England are not good enough at this level - it's not about me being anti-England. I want England to do well every time. My favourite players are mostly English players.
Stop trolling.....
England took the wrong 2 left backs for starters
I'm not. All I'm saying is you said they've barely played together when they are probably our most used partnership at the back. We have very few options there to be fair to Roy, its our weakest position.
Would you have said that before the tournament?
There is certainly a lot of hatred directed towards England in general from abroad. A lot of it is to do with jealousy I believe due to our success in other areas and in football its one of the few things they can poke fun at us about.
I don't think this guy is one of those people though, he's just speaking the truth and fair play to him, I actually agree with some of what he is saying, I just don't think the situation is quite as bad as he makes out or that we're as terrible as all that.
How do we know if Shaw was the wrong back up to take? He hasn't had a chance yet. He'll start vs. Costa Rica and we can (sort of) judge from there.
Baines was by a distance the best English LB last year and the year before. His stats in the league are incredible for a fullback, he's a great attacking threat for Everton down that left-hand side. Unfortunately it didn't happen for him with the NT, I think it's down to his mentality and also as Hannibal said, whereas Baines has great chemistry with the players down the left for Everton and they know how to make him tick, our wingers have played very little with him and don't have the same understanding.
Yes. I've never rated Baines as highly as other people do.
I have very much made the claim and stick by it.
Havent read the thread so much but heres my two pence.
The reason we were eliminated so early is for various reasons but I think for me at least there are three very clear reasons we are taking an early flight home.
1. Overwhelming support for essentially rubbish/inexperienced players.
The first game I caught on my way home from a flight and when I arrived at the place I was watching it all my friends were raving about Sterling....I was baffled, what I witnessed from him were various runs to the byline resulting in smashing a cross into someones shins. I was bemused to find out his only real effective piece of play was the pass to Rooney...I was later even more bemused when he started against Uraguay and proceeded to do absolutely nothing. Not only him but Sturridge, providing nothing in the entire two games other than one tap in and couple of hopeful shots, he simply isnt as clinical as everyone thinks, for the team he literally offers nothing, how many times are you screaming PASS at the screen. Barkley looked good for roughly 2 mins when he came on and proceeded to go completely missing, offering yet again nothing to the team.
I wont go into everyone but heres a little round up of people who shouldnt have started the uraguay game: Henderson, Gerrard, Johnson, Sterling and perhaps Jagielka.
People were ranting and raving about the way Everton and Liverpool have been playing, fantastic, yes but sorry, when was the last time those players played in a high pressure international competition like the CL or even the EL, honestly how could we expect a team full of players more used to battling against West Brom and Palace with literally no experience from playing teams such as Bayern, Barca, Real? Even the likes of Gala, Dynamo and so forth. From the moment we were arrogant enough to think these players could automatically play to that level, we might as well have booked our flights home.
2. English Press
As usual the English press chose to pick out a player and absolutely berate them for no apparent reason, embarrassing, NO OTHER country does this, yet we leak game plans, slag Rooney off for what? will it help? How embarrassing is it that our own players have to defend themselves against our own media. Not only that but the utter ridiculous and misplaced hype for substandard players was shocking.
3. England have no central creative players
Countless times in the match we would get into the right positions, start circulating posession around the edges of the box, not a single player made an intelligent run and if they did there was no one there to place the pass, we decided to go for players that can do a job rather than create anything new or unpredictable.
I wont rabbit on too long but I wasnt shocked or surprised to see us go out, it was obvious, sometimes we are in our little bubble in the prem, we dont look at the bigger picture nor understand the game on the continent, we think simply slapping the players together and hoping for the best will work. We want to drop players in favour for someone who can do step-overs. We want to play old "legends" because wed be "worse off" without them with no regard for the opposition at all, for the level of competition. For some reason unknown to me Uraguay were cast aside as an easy victory. As usual the country with the best league in the world has a bunch of clueless ride alongs in the press.
Incidentally this would have been my team based on the first game and needing a win in the second.
Fell free to destroy me, but it was embarrassing how we are behind such over rated players.
The reason we were eliminated so early is for various reasons but I think for me at least there are three very clear reasons we are taking an early flight home.
1. Overwhelming support for essentially rubbish/inexperienced players.
The first game I caught on my way home from a flight and when I arrived at the place I was watching it all my friends were raving about Sterling....I was baffled, what I witnessed from him were various runs to the byline resulting in smashing a cross into someones shins. I was bemused to find out his only real effective piece of play was the pass to Rooney...I was later even more bemused when he started against Uraguay and proceeded to do absolutely nothing. Not only him but Sturridge, providing nothing in the entire two games other than one tap in and couple of hopeful shots, he simply isnt as clinical as everyone thinks, for the team he literally offers nothing, how many times are you screaming PASS at the screen. Barkley looked good for roughly 2 mins when he came on and proceeded to go completely missing, offering yet again nothing to the team.
I wont go into everyone but heres a little round up of people who shouldnt have started the uraguay game: Henderson, Gerrard, Johnson, Sterling and perhaps Jagielka.
People were ranting and raving about the way Everton and Liverpool have been playing, fantastic, yes but sorry, when was the last time those players played in a high pressure international competition like the CL or even the EL, honestly how could we expect a team full of players more used to battling against West Brom and Palace with literally no experience from playing teams such as Bayern, Barca, Real? Even the likes of Gala, Dynamo and so forth. From the moment we were arrogant enough to think these players could automatically play to that level, we might as well have booked our flights home.
2. English Press
As usual the English press chose to pick out a player and absolutely berate them for no apparent reason, embarrassing, NO OTHER country does this, yet we leak game plans, slag Rooney off for what? will it help? How embarrassing is it that our own players have to defend themselves against our own media. Not only that but the utter ridiculous and misplaced hype for substandard players was shocking.
3. England have no central creative players
Countless times in the match we would get into the right positions, start circulating posession around the edges of the box, not a single player made an intelligent run and if they did there was no one there to place the pass, we decided to go for players that can do a job rather than create anything new or unpredictable.
I wont rabbit on too long but I wasnt shocked or surprised to see us go out, it was obvious, sometimes we are in our little bubble in the prem, we dont look at the bigger picture nor understand the game on the continent, we think simply slapping the players together and hoping for the best will work. We want to drop players in favour for someone who can do step-overs. We want to play old "legends" because wed be "worse off" without them with no regard for the opposition at all, for the level of competition. For some reason unknown to me Uraguay were cast aside as an easy victory. As usual the country with the best league in the world has a bunch of clueless ride alongs in the press.
Incidentally this would have been my team based on the first game and needing a win in the second.
Forster (CL experience, less flappy than Hart)
Jones (CL- Title Winner)- Cahill (CL Winner)- Smalling (CL- Title Winner)- Baines (No other option)
Wilshire (CL)- Lampard (CL Winner)
Ox (Risked it, CL)- Rooney (CL Winner)-Lallana (No one else, very creative)
Welbeck (CL, scores in big games)
Yes the new blood should have gone, but relying on the likes of Henderson, Sterling was shocking to me. Sterling should be used like Januzaj for Belgium. Jones (CL- Title Winner)- Cahill (CL Winner)- Smalling (CL- Title Winner)- Baines (No other option)
Wilshire (CL)- Lampard (CL Winner)
Ox (Risked it, CL)- Rooney (CL Winner)-Lallana (No one else, very creative)
Welbeck (CL, scores in big games)
Fell free to destroy me, but it was embarrassing how we are behind such over rated players.
Then you are also claiming that that Greece side had better players than England when they won the Euro's. Which would be ridiculous. That team was unbelievably average, but they had an excellent game plan that saw them beat superior sides.
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that this England team could win 2018. It's very unlikely but its possible, with a clear identity and some decent tactics. This is football, the best team doesn't always win the tournaments. See Liverpool 2005 and Chelsea 2012 and like I said, Greece 2004.
For example, I would only take Howard in to the England starting 11 and he's a goalkeeper (and some would still take Hart) yet as a team they have performed much better because they are motivated and well organized/drilled. You don't need a team of stars to win.
Consider yourself destroyed.
It's not even necessary to go through your post and take it apart bit by bit .. and would be a total waste of time on you. Your 'team' destroys all credibility you may have elicited from a few, despite the previous 3 paragraphs of drivel. I mean seriously inserting players stating 'CL Winners' (from 6 years ago) as if it is some form of validation for inclusion and dropping players who were actually amongst the best (Sterling was our MoM against Italy and Sturridge one of the best too, but you would drop them against Uruguay based on that)!? Claiming there is no other option to Baines (when Shaw is sat on the bench), that Lampard, a 36 yr old. is a viable option to run the MF and then incredibly, including Ox-Chamb.' when he is injured FFS, saying 'Risk It' !?!?!?
And before you try to find some other excuse for that team let's remind ourselves of your words above :
Incidentally this would have been my team based on the first game and needing a win in the second.
Rarely have I seen a more ill-conceived, and biased, post of utter rubbish. You are right it really is embarrassing.
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Well that's one way of putting it, I suppose.
You don't think any of the irrational hatred SOME foreigners direct towards England/Britain is anything to do with jealousy? It's not the sole reason but its part of it.
No, I don't. But we could all do without the thread being derailed by discussions of history & politics, so I'll leave it there.
Fair enough.
In other news, apparently Lamps will be captain tomorrow:
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9358144/Captain-Frank
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9358144/Captain-Frank
He completely forgets the amount of English players we -United - produce who go on to have productive careers elsewhere. We gave Wilson his debut this season, we have Jones, Smalling, Welbeck, Cleverley, all Englishs players who have international caps. Not to mention the likes of Pearson, Rothwell etc in the reserves coming along nicely.
Are you serious? So if a referee gives a bad decision against you then that isn't luck? England have been poor with defensive errors but in the Uruguay game, Godin should have been sent off, 10 men with your best defender off is a whole different proposition. England might still not have won but we will never know. This doesn't obviously disguise their poor performances and is no excuse but all teams who have won major tournaments, leagues, cups etc have had some form of luck be that in whatever form. Of course you don't win tournaments with luck alone but there is always luck in football and because the World Cup is only a small number of games, it can make the difference.
It's not luck - it's just incompetence of a match official. There are 90 mins in a football game to do something about the incorrect decision of a referee.
For instance, England is playing Nigeria.......Nigeria got a goal through a dubious decision to take the lead. England cannot use that as an excuse cos they needed a goal in the first place to beat Nigeria(dubious decision or not)....At worst, the game should end in a draw not a loss.
Thoughts?
Tell me Rooney is on the bench at least.
About the South Americans true, but don't forget Germany, the Netherlands, France and Spain. With England, I'm just saying we never quite have that X factor type of player. Many of the great teams down the years have had this. Zidane and Platini for France, Cruyff and Van Basten for the Netherlands, Beckenbaur and Matthaus for Germany and recently Iniesta and Xavi for Spain.
With the exception of the odd time like Greece in Euro 2004, you need that special type of player who can get you out in the close games with the other big nations. Suarez being an example the other night. And England over the years have often been undone by a special player like Zidane in Euro 2004 scoring a freekick in the last few seconds or Ronaldinho and Rivaldo in 2002 or Maradona in 86.
Part of the problem is tactical, part is player selection and part player performance. To me it seems like England's managers take the players who would make up most people's top 23 list rather than the 23 player who would best fit with the philosophy of what England is try to do.
I think Garreth Barry while not a spectacular player would have added stability.
I also find it difficult to figure out England's footballing identity.
I think Garreth Barry while not a spectacular player would have added stability.
I also find it difficult to figure out England's footballing identity.
If it goes right ,we will say it's very positive for 2016 ,if we lose we will say it was all about giving these players some World Cup experience. Hodgson can't lose.
It's to do with our media acting like fools down the years.
Bit too late to be fielding that highly attacking side. Woy will get massive stick fi they turn Costa Rica over.
I truly truly don't get the Lampard one, why does he NEED a sendoff? He's got the 100 caps, he really doesn't need it. But he'll probably score. Should of kept Sterling in there, or give Rooney his first genuine game as the captain.
Can't do as bad a job as Gerrard
This is symptomatic of the over sentimental approach to Hodgson's World Cup. It's about time he took the job seriously enough to forward the nation's cause. That means being more cut throat and less mollycoddling of his favoured players. I don't think he sees what he is doing. I'm sorry, but this is just unacceptable, and quite frankly, unprofessional. Given our spectacular failure, he could at least pretend he has some tactical nous and make some bloody meaningful changes.
Sturridge keeps his place.Our B team, but a better side than half of the country's who will qualify for the last 16 tbf.
*Waits for the anti-England response*
Our B team, but a better side than half of the country's who will qualify for the last 16 tbf.
*Waits for the anti-England response*
What's this supposed to be? Because it sure seems like not so subtle racism.