It's very easy to state that, but that's something that could easily be changed. English people in general aren't chokers so if this is true, we have to identify what it is in our setup that makes our football NT chokers and fix that.
England at World Cup 2014
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
It's very easy to state that, but that's something that could easily be changed. English people in general aren't chokers so if this is true, we have to identify what it is in our setup that makes our football NT chokers and fix that.
Don't know about that. If you watch English cricket you will know we fall to pieces in that at times when the going gets tough. We get too excited and don't hold our heads together when it comes to sport. Just look at England's pathetic record on shoot outs and tell me something isn't wrong?
You look at how some of these "lesser" teams are performing at this World Cup...
God we're shit.
God we're shit.
We're one of the most successful sporting nations on earth all things considered. Just look at our Olympics performances for evidence of that.
There is something wrong probably, within our national team. I don't think its something ingrained in the mentality of English people though, its a problem mainly in the football team.
Can you rank which nationalities in general are chokers?
What? That's exactly what I'm saying, that it's not some English trait to be chokers or whatever and if our national team are choking, its not down to our nationality its something to do with the setup and the way we prepare players for tournaments that's wrong.
we need a manager who will instil that belief in the players imo, someone who won't tolerate bad performances and who has tactical ability to turn matches for us with changes and also to set up to play different formations not one dimensional tactics.
we have won the Ashes several times, including recently though...we also won the Rugby World Cup in 2003 and made the final in 2007 so I really don't think it's an England thing, it's the footballers who are the bottlers.
It genuinely angers me how an oaf like Hodgson gets paid £3.5m to coach England, immune to a lot of criticism from all quarters, whereas the Costa Rican manager gets paid a measly £200k and guides them to wins against two teams we didn't even look like beating.
In Rugby we've blown a few grandslams losing the last game but in world cups we've done well. Two of the last three ashes away tours we've been humiliated 5-0. One of those was against a great side, but still those cricketers crumbled when the going got tough. In team sports we do bottle it many times, but individual sports we do okay.
To be fair, it has a lot to do with the fact whereas England are hiring a manager who has managed teams like Liverpool, Inter Milan and even a lower Premier League side like Fulham - Jorge Luis Pinto's last managerial job was at Deportivo Tachira.
I think all teams have their bottle jobs. I don't think we're that bad, like I said something unique to the football nation team in which players just seem to not have the same passion or desire to win as they do in our other sports teams as well.
a manager who was an epic failure at every "big" job he has had, yet the FA thought "hey he can't handle high pressure jobs, let's take him on for the national team"
You are trying to find reason in this?
I'd like to repeat that I was disagreeing with the notion that choking is inherent in a nation, not supporting it.
It was a silly appointment, especially after the car crash he'd just had at Liverpool. He was the safe option though, easy, dependable Roy who won't moan or cause issues like Redknapp. He'll respect Gerrard and Lampard, kiss Rooney's feet and play nice, safe football and be liked by the press for being a nice, polite man.
Its sad watching this thread because everyone is heading back to the same excuses that have been used so long with England. The misguided belief the players are good enough and the belief that its the managers fault.
If there was as much passion put into discussions about how best to produce world class junior players as there is into blaming each successive England manager then England would be in a far healthier position. I first saw England play in the late 60's and the game has evolved and progressed. England needs to catch up and become innovators again.
You cant run before you can crawl. The focus from the fans needs to shift to junior coaching, quality coaches and quality facilities for the 5-14 year olds. If you produce amazing kids the system is forced to adapt and keep up. Its the fans with the most ability to force the FA to work harder on producing world class kids but unfortunately the fans always get sidetracked into blaming the managers.
The belief that the England players are good enough is disheartening.
If there was as much passion put into discussions about how best to produce world class junior players as there is into blaming each successive England manager then England would be in a far healthier position. I first saw England play in the late 60's and the game has evolved and progressed. England needs to catch up and become innovators again.
You cant run before you can crawl. The focus from the fans needs to shift to junior coaching, quality coaches and quality facilities for the 5-14 year olds. If you produce amazing kids the system is forced to adapt and keep up. Its the fans with the most ability to force the FA to work harder on producing world class kids but unfortunately the fans always get sidetracked into blaming the managers.
The belief that the England players are good enough is disheartening.
I was asking eboue not you?I'd like to repeat that I was disagreeing with the notion that choking is inherent in a nation, not supporting it.
Saying that, do you believe a Scolari or a Mourinho would have got more out of that team? Maybe, but we were never going to be more than a second round team with this squad. We just don't have the technique or depth of quality that so many other countries do. And that's at a world cup where I feel many of the top teams, including Brazil, Germany and the Argies have looked vulnerable, not to mention Spain.
I don't know about Scolari but I am pretty darned sure Mourinho can achieve a lot more with this team.
It's easy to believe that. I wonder how much of it is some kind of fear factor on the player's behalf vs the skill/technique factor or the manager. Bottom line is that I can only remember about five England games I thoroughly enjoyed and was proud of the team and I am 37.
Actually, bastard, I was 38 in March
Capello by all accounts was a great manager, and he couldn't do much.
England need a manager who has the cojones to take on the press/players and to get the players who he picks to perform, have good tactics/team selection and substitutes.
someone like Van Gaal ironically would be ideal for them, though I can't say I am too upset United got him instead obviously lol
not sure who is available but I know for sure that with Hodgson in charge England won't improve, heck I wouldn't even be confident of qualifying for EURO 2016 with him there, the guy wants Gerrard (who is 34 and a liability for England in big games as he showed this world cup) to stay on as captain for fecks sake.
best win % of any England manager IIRC though...
world cup 2010 the players didn't perform, can say what you will about that tbh, but the Germany game we were outplayed by a better team and the disallowed goal cost us a way back into it too.
I reckon Capello would have done a better job at EURO 2012 and this world cup than Hodgson did too tbh.
I mean I guess his lack of experience with international management didn't help maybe, perhaps he is a more conservative manager than some as well.
he wasn't helped by a hostile media and FA either.
All I'm saying is, there are a lot of issues that needs to be addressed, including players, coach and the FA. Blooding the youngsters is not the overarching aim of playing in a World Cup tournament. That's such a stupid argument. Look at Costa Rica and other small teams. Saying England isn't talented enough is making a mockery of all other teams.
To be fair, Argentina could still go out and Spain have already gone out.
That is your captain.....And that is your manager
Bloody hell
Bore off
I agree the manager is not the only issue but I think he is a huge obstacle to making the changes we need, the players can be improved by a good manager as well, the FA? well I think we all wish we had a solution to their stupidity tbh! we definitely have talented players as well like you say, again I think a better manager would get much more from them, Costa Rica/USA both have managers who seem to know what they are doing much more.
expectations don't help to an extent maybe, though they were much lower for this world cup than in the past and we still didn't show up so that's no excuse either really for England/Hodgson this time.
this is very true and a fair point, Argentina imo rely too much on individuals and not enough work has been done to make them a team, Spain just paid the price for sticking with the same team/tactics despite them fact other teams had figured their tactics out and the players aren't as good.
Well, you're good enough to get to the next round but you are nowhere near good enough to win it.
Argentina is through.
I'm Indian, living in the US. India doesn't even qualify for the qualifiers for the World Cup. My first team is Holland for this World cup and I'm starting a family in US and I'll naturally support US. I support Scotland, so I tend to support any team that plays against England, but I do think that England need to buy into a system and play for it, instead of selecting the most talented in the EPL and hoping they can play and practise with what they have.
to be fair I don't think anyone is saying we can win the world cup, but we can certainly do a LOT better than finishing bottom of the group and playing like crap.
You are right, my mistake
There is rot in your current squad. Whether it is attitude, all the coaches who have failed, players not skilled enough or whatever. It's rot and England were never going much further than the group stage.
So with England looking to the future now, it only seems right that Frank Lampard captains the team against Costa Rica. Right?
The amount of support Gerrard gets from RAWK is making me dumbfounded. All those excuses of playing him in a 2 man midfield and due to the fact Rooney mess up the whole formation are baffling. They even brought up comparison to Xavi and Pirlo can't perform in a two man midfield too.
Why I feel Gerrard is not the right man to captain England / to be in the starting eleven is simple, he does not turn up for the game. When playing for the World Cup, a lot of the players stretched themselves to the limit and exceed expectations. What i see from Gerrard from the pass two games was just simply trying to be safe in every movement and passes. As a captain, he didn't even show the right way to the rest of his mates. One would expect a captain simply put in extra effort than the rest to motivate them. His passes and shots were so average that we don't even have to touch about his decision making in the two games.
Was Beckham played all over the pitched against Greece or is it his eagerness to win every ball to help England? At that time, Greece scored two goals against a leaky defense too. What differentiate Beckham from Gerrard was Beckham carried the responsibility of the whole country on himself and push the rest of the team forward with him. While Gerrard just hopes that the team will do what they are best at.
Gerrard will never be the likes of Viera, Keane, Puyol, or even Shearer in terms of captaincy. He was never vocal nor was he an inspiration to the rest of the players on the same pitch as him.
Why I feel Gerrard is not the right man to captain England / to be in the starting eleven is simple, he does not turn up for the game. When playing for the World Cup, a lot of the players stretched themselves to the limit and exceed expectations. What i see from Gerrard from the pass two games was just simply trying to be safe in every movement and passes. As a captain, he didn't even show the right way to the rest of his mates. One would expect a captain simply put in extra effort than the rest to motivate them. His passes and shots were so average that we don't even have to touch about his decision making in the two games.
Was Beckham played all over the pitched against Greece or is it his eagerness to win every ball to help England? At that time, Greece scored two goals against a leaky defense too. What differentiate Beckham from Gerrard was Beckham carried the responsibility of the whole country on himself and push the rest of the team forward with him. While Gerrard just hopes that the team will do what they are best at.
Gerrard will never be the likes of Viera, Keane, Puyol, or even Shearer in terms of captaincy. He was never vocal nor was he an inspiration to the rest of the players on the same pitch as him.
He's right. You go ahead and wank on about Hodgson and why can't players deliver etc etc
So Chamberlain is injured for the the Costa Rica game as well... which makes the decision to keep him in the squad and take him to the tournament look a bit stupid.
I'm not saying a replacement would have done a better job (though Carrick sitting in front of the back four wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world for the last 15 minutes against Uruguay) - but it could have been useful. For everything I like about Hodgson - and I do think he should keep his job - he does make some daft decisions.
I'm not saying a replacement would have done a better job (though Carrick sitting in front of the back four wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world for the last 15 minutes against Uruguay) - but it could have been useful. For everything I like about Hodgson - and I do think he should keep his job - he does make some daft decisions.
Well said. God knows how Woy is the National Team manager. He will always be Fulham level.