England at World Cup 2014

[toonfan]

Gerrard - "There is no truth I'll be making any announcement on my England future in the next week. I need more time than that."

As if it were up for debate. Your time is over, quit before you embarrass yourself further.

 

[united_99]

Yes. Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard and the likes of Sterling and Sturridge are all technically inferior to the likes of Andre Ayew and Muntari.

Nope, obviously they are all superior at every level whereas the Ghana players agreed with German players in 2010 and 2014 that Germany just make them look good. Let's ignore again what we actually see on the pitch in tournaments and instead let's base all our opinions on some PL games when the English players play with some other world class foreign talent.

 

[Eriksen]

Nope, obviously they are all superior at every level whereas the Ghana players agreed with German players in 2010 and 2014 that Germany just make them look good. Let's ignore again what we actually see on the pitch in tournaments and instead let's base all our opinions on some PL games when the English players play with some other world class foreign talent.

Did you see Ghana against USA? They looked awful. They raised their game massively for a big match, nearly killed themselves with the amount they ran around.

Yeah, what a stupid idea to judge players on their weekly games for club sides in which they actually have a system in place and can play to their true ability. What we should be doing is judging them on one off tournaments happening every couple of years in which they often appear for a few games.

"World class foreign talent" - Yeah you're dead on here. When Sterling was tearing apart City, it was really Suarez going on those runs and not him at all. When Rooney was scoring for United, it was really Mata doing all that and making him look good. Gerrard's achievements throughout his career are totally down to all the foreigners around him. Cahill only looked good because of Azpilicueta. It all makes sense now, how have these terrible English players managed to disguise themselves as top players their entire careers? You should publish these findings, honestly. They are totally watertight.

 

[united_99]

Did you see Ghana against USA? They looked awful. They raised their game massively for a big match, nearly killed themselves with the amount they ran around.

Yeah, what a stupid idea to judge players on their weekly games for club sides in which they actually have a system in place and can play to their true ability. What we should be doing is judging them on one off tournaments happening every couple of years in which they often appear for a few games.

"World class foreign talent" - Yeah you're dead on here. When Sterling was tearing apart City, it was really Suarez going on those runs and not him at all. When Rooney was scoring for United, it was really Mata doing all that and making him look good. Gerrard's achievements throughout his career are totally down to all the foreigners around him. Cahill only looked good because of Azpilicueta. It all makes sense now, how have these terrible English players managed to disguise themselves as championship players their entire careers? You should publish these findings, honestly. They are totally watertight.

So Ghana raised their game. I wonder why England never ever decide to raise their game against a half decent opposition in a tournament. Anyway, go on you seem to be one of those deluded English fans who will blame anything but never admit England are not good enough despite all the evidence.

 

[Eriksen]

So Ghana raised their game. I wonder why England never ever decide to raise their game against a half decent opposition in a tournament. Anyway, go on you seem to be one of those deluded English fans who will blame anything but never admit England are not good enough despite all the evidence.

There is tons of problems in the English game, hence the lacklustre displays from the National Team. We're nowhere near good enough talent wise right now to win the World Cup either, not without some ridiculous luck and some excellent structure to the team. Neither of which we have.

If you think I'm deluded because I believe we have more talented players than Ghana then I don't know what to say. Our players don't just happen to play for far better teams, at club level they are better players. Do you reckon Liverpool Football Club would agree with you and swap Jordan Ayew for Sturridge?

You don't score 21 league goals if you're a dinosaur technically, simple as that. Before you say it's all because he's next to Suarez who somehow forces the ball in to the back of the net for Sturridge via jedi mind tricks, he was scoring at a similar rate during all his suspended games. He's also mainly supported by guess who, English midfielders in Henderson and Gerrard and an English winger in Sterling. Although clearly Liverpool should instead be playing Moses, as he is obviously better technically.

We're lacking technically compared to Germany, Brazil, Spain, Argentina etc. Not Ghana. We just don't play these technical players or play a system that suits them. Lallana is excellent technically yet only played probably about 30 minutes the whole tournament.

I'd also like to add that our failure at this WC was not down to lack of technical ability, we actually played some pretty decent football. It was down to horrible defensive frailties and individual errors. You could very much argue we outplayed both the opponents we faced, especially in the case of Uruguay.

 

[Eriksen]

Can Phil Neville shut up please. We really don't "need" Steven Gerrard more than ever. We don't need a man who's errors just knocked us out of the tournament.

 

[Goalfather]

Yes. Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard and the likes of Sterling and Sturridge are all technically inferior to the likes of Andre Ayew and Muntari.

Sigh! You will never learn!

 

[Eriksen]

Sigh! You will never learn!

What exactly am I failing to learn? I refuse to accept our top players playing for top Premier League clubs and being key parts of these teams are technically inferior to the likes of Muntari who can barely get off the bench for an awful AC Milan side where even Taraabt looked world-class.

Sorry, if that makes me "deluded" or whatever.

 

[matherto]

You could very much argue we outplayed both the opponents we faced

There is no possible way you could argue we outplayed Italy.

 

[Eriksen]

There is no possible way you could argue we outplayed Italy.

England vs Italy, statistics:


England: 18 shots, 12 on target.
Italy: 8 shots, 5 on target
Italy: 52% possession
England: 9 corners, Italy 2.
3 saves from hart, 7 from Sirigu.

So far more shots on goal and very even possession. You could certainly make that argument. I don't think we did, it was a very even game, but the argument could be made.

 

[The Holy Trinity]

Stevie me should grow a pair and Hodgson also and just quit. The pair of them don't seem to be able to get the team playing at a good tempo it's always the same boring mundane England. We deserve better.

 

[Goalfather]

What exactly am I failing to learn? I refuse to accept our top players playing for top Premier League clubs and being key parts of these teams are technically inferior to the likes of Muntari who can barely get off the bench for an awful AC Milan side where even Taraabt looked world-class.

Sorry, if that makes me "deluded" or whatever.

It does not make you deluded, just close minded!

The point the United 99 was making is that the Ghanaians are better at some skills than their English counterparts. The fact is from defence to attack the Ghanaians were a lot more comfortable on the ball. The midfielders did not treat the ball like a hot potato but passsed it around probing for openings. They were able to control the tempo of their passing game and vary the nature of attacks.

England's game plan was predictable, in fact nothing tactically has changed since the Euros. They get the ball in defence, pass it to the midfielders who lump it to the wide men who receive the ball at feet instead of in space. The wide players have to beat their counterpart , go to the byline and whip crosses in. The reason why England has looked a bit more fluent this time around is that the current personnel are much pacier and better on the ball.

You are not going to win tournament football this way!

 

[Ash_G]

Stevie me should grow a pair and Hodgson also and just quit. The pair of them don't seem to be able to get the team playing at a good tempo it's always the same boring mundane England. We deserve better.

Gerrard doesn't need to retire unless he wants to. I always find it an odd notion when people want players to retire from international football. Outside off a something like a Terry situation or if they just don't fancy it anymore like Scholes; what needs to happen is that the manger needs to make decisions that favor the team and not what the press pressurize to happen or what the safe option is. In the case of Gerrard I think that would relegate him to sub. But he's still good enough to be in the squad right now. Then it's a case of if Gerrard wants that sort of role. But to just retire so that it's an easier decision for the manager has always been odd to me. The younger players need to earn their way in but the manager needs to be fair and not pick players on name at the same time.

 

[Eriksen]

It does not make you deluded, just close minded!

The point the United 99 was making is that the Ghanaians are better at some skills than their English counterparts. The fact is from defence to attack the Ghanaians were a lot more comfortable on the ball. The midfielders did not treat the ball like a hot potato but passsed it around probing for openings. They were able to control the tempo of their passing game and vary the nature of attacks.

England's game plan was predictable, in fact nothing tactically has changed since the Euros. They get the ball in defence, pass it to the midfielders who lump it to the wide men who receive the ball at feet instead of in space. The wide players have to beat their counterpart , go to the byline and whip crosses in. The reason why England has looked a bit more fluent this time around is that the current personnel are much pacier and better on the ball.

You are not going to win tournament football this way!

We really weren't that bad, I maintain this. Ghana put in a good performance and got a point against a good German team. They were useless in their opening match against an average team.

We played some very good football against a good Italian team and were the better side against Uruguay. We were very unlucky to lose both matches, individual mistakes cost us at least a draw in both games. Like Henry said, had we had an easier group and gained some confidence early on we might've gone on to do better. Seedorf even said we weren't that bad and that we only need tweaks, not a total overhaul.

Uruguay scored from their only 2 shots on target of the game. We weren't outplayed, the opposition weren't technically better than us. Tactically we were found out, not technically.

Also, you're totally wrong about us not tactically changing since the Euro's. Our setup was totally different, we played a much more open, attacking game for one. It actually worked better in the Euro's because as I've repeatedly said, at least we had a plan. This time around we had no clear style and it showed and cost us.


Our players weren't the problem this year, bar a couple. We actually played some decent stuff. Refusal to drop Gerrard who cost us with two individual mistakes against Uruguay and a horrible performance against Italy and our defence looking leaky was the issue. Both could've been fixed or at least aided with some tactical changes.

 

[Drummer]

There was a good debate about England's persistently poor performances at major championships and I do believe they got it spot on...

England may have good players but they aren't coached to play football. They are coached "to win". In many top counties players are coached to learn to be comfortable in possession. Indeed I have heard that in Spain , players under 16 are encouraged to play non competitive football , where the focus is on improving your technical ability.

They also made the point that in the epl, the tempo of the game is really quick where it suits English players. In international football top teams like Germany and Spain are masters at retaining possession. In short, the English game of high tempo just isn't suited to international football.

They further made the final point of how England wasted one of its finest talents in the last few decades. Scholes retired young because England insisted on playing it's failed tactics facilitating gerrard and lampard at the expense of the English pirlo who could of helped England take a step up internationally. If playing scholes out on the wing wasn't enough to change the outdated culture in England, it's hard to see what will!

England will not learn if it continues to churn out the same excuses after every tournament. If they want to make progress they need to make big changes... From the sounds of things they haven't got the vision to do this and haven't learned a thing.

 

[Darkziro]

Was thinking about this the other day. In almost all positions, we have outstanding potential players, supplemented by potentially decent players, with the exception of centre midfield.

Of the current 'proven' young lads, there's only Wilshere, Henderson and Cleverley. Beneath that, you're looking at the U21 guys (Chalobah, Carroll, Hughes) who have a long way to go to prove themselves.

As a Chelsea fan, I've seen McEachran come through the ranks over the years and thought he was nailed on to make it, barring injuries of course. By no means am I giving up on a lad of 21 but the regression of his career is just sad to watch. For England's sake at least, I hope he cuts his ties and moves on.

Chalobah is a more interesting case. He fits the Mourinho profile of being a technically proficient player, with the necessary athleticism. Not good enough to start for Chelsea right now and not so average that he can waste key developmental years as a reserve. He needs games which is why a good loan is a must for him this year. Hopefully somewhere in the prem.

I caught a few Derby games last year to see how Bamford was doing. Your (WBA) young player, George Thorne, caught the eye.

I don't know what happened to Wilshere, I assume if he starts week in week out he can be a top player. I haven't lost hope with Cleverly he will never be world class but he is something England do not have a neat passer, I think he was only not starting due to our season, next year with LvG he can start to fullfill potential, then Hednerson who is not bad. That is more than enough, all goes well they will all be a lot better in four years.

 

[Alun]

I think the situation is Being slightly over analyzed. Italy and Uruguay are two very good teams. England only lost 2-1 to both of them and each game was incredibly close. It could have gone either way. With more luck England could be sitting on 4 points

 

[NoWinNoFee]

England haters are getting more pathetic by the hour.

 

[Zak Smith]

England were second best in the Italy game, even if it was the best England performance in a number of years. Sadly Costa Rica showed that Italy aren't that special anymore, yet they still beat England without leaving 2nd gear.

 

[Lyricist]

German TV just said "for the longest time the English strived to play like the Spanish. In 2014 the time has finally come."

I honestly didn't think England was as bad as their points total suggests. They were in the game in both games but were unlucky to lose each time. It's not like Uruguay and Italy didn't deserve to win but perhaps it's harsh on England that they didn't pick up a point. I definitely like this new generation of English players though. You played way better than in 2010 and this team is definitely going to be better in 2016 and 2018.

 

[The Holy Trinity]

Gerrard doesn't need to retire unless he wants to. I always find it an odd notion when people want players to retire from international football. Outside off a something like a Terry situation or if they just don't fancy it anymore like Scholes; what needs to happen is that the manger needs to make decisions that favor the team and not what the press pressurize to happen or what the safe option is. In the case of Gerrard I think that would relegate him to sub. But he's still good enough to be in the squad right now. Then it's a case of if Gerrard wants that sort of role. But to just retire so that it's an easier decision for the manager has always been odd to me. The younger players need to earn their way in but the manager needs to be fair and not pick players on name at the same time.

gerrard does need to retire he can't motivate as England captain how many more times has his poxy ego going to deny us a half decent campaign he was a good player but time has caught him he should leave England alone.

 

[clarkydaz]

its time for Gerrard to step down because he has been shown to be a liability in this new role supposedly tailored for him. How can you be a leader when you are a weak link? its like the rooney factor playing him for who he is

Yes for Liverpool he may have 2 guys doing the running but you cant do that for England effectively taking up 1/2 places to accommodate him. he does nothing to justify it

 

[Ash_G]

gerrard does need to retire he can't motivate as England captain how many more times has his poxy ego going to deny us a half decent campaign he was a good player but time has caught him he should leave England alone.

Unless you can name players better than him that he's keeping out of the squad then he doesn't. He shouldn't be the captain going forward because he shouldn't be an automatic starter. But can he do a job coming on as a sub or in games where we've got injuries? Definitely. All that needs to happen is for the manager to have some balls and play the best team he can not just try to play the biggest names. We're not gonna get anywhere until that happens. Players shouldn't need to retire for that to happen.

 

[The Holy Trinity]

Unless you can name players better than him that he's keeping out of the squad then he doesn't. He shouldn't be the captain going forward because he shouldn't be an automatic starter. But can he do a job coming on as a sub or in games where we've got injuries? Definitely. All that needs to happen is for the manager to have some balls and play the best team he can not just try to play the biggest names. We're not gonna get anywhere until that happens. Players shouldn't need to retire for that to happen.[/QUOTE
We ain't gonna get anywhere when we have a technically pissed poor manager and a self obsessed captain in our ranks. Can you imagine how much the England supporters out in Brazil have spent getting there and this joke of a team can't get out the 1st round, I think all the England players should pay the fans back as a way of owning up and saying sorry lads but we were shit.

 

[NoWinNoFee]

Prime Gerrard was an amazing player, 2005 best (or top 3) midfielders in Europe, how he carried Liverpool for all those years and what he did in the final against Milan and Fa Cup that season, i can't think of any midfielder who could do that.

Time as come now though where both he and Lampard need to move on from England, excluding Rooney they are the last of the golden generation and we really need to move on from the golden flops now in order to progress, the future looks bright in terms of youth, but the last of the golden flops are still mixed in with them and they need removing once and for all.

 

[Eriksen]

England were second best in the Italy game, even if it was the best England performance in a number of years. Sadly Costa Rica showed that Italy aren't that special anymore, yet they still beat England without leaving 2nd gear.

No, no we were not second best by any means. Please look at the stats of that game, whilst stats never tell you anything, it's clear we weren't second best by any means. We had far more shots and shots on target, far more corners and generally had most of the attacking play and created plenty. We got hit on the break and by a clever set piece. Lack of clinical finishing cost us. It was a very even match and we were dreadfully unlucky to lose.


Also, Italy's loss vs. Costa Rica can be put down both to an excellent performance from CR and a very, very poor one from Italy. Teams do have their off days, we'll see how they do against Uruguay and in the rest of the tournament.

 

[Eriksen]

I think the situation is Being slightly over analyzed. Italy and Uruguay are two very good teams. England only lost 2-1 to both of them and each game was incredibly close. It could have gone either way. With more luck England could be sitting on 4 points

Agreed. We were very, very unlucky in both games and played very well vs. Italy in particular. Far brighter performance than we saw in 2010.

My only problem with it all is the tactical naivety that Hodgson showed that I've discussed before and the lack of a game plan. The players themselves, especially the attacking ones, were impressive. Find a decent holding midfielder who's name doesn't begin with G and tighten up the defense and we've got a very decent team with lots of pace to hurt teams on the counter in particular.

Team doesn't need a massive reform like it needed in 2010 with some truly dreadful showings. Teams who have performed much worse, Portugal for example, are still in the competition, we were just very unlucky in numerous ways. This really isn't a bad side.

 

[Maxii]

One of the most negative interviews I've ever seen. He is not the manager for England in the future

 

[Goalfather]

Agreed. We were very, very unlucky in both games and played very well vs. Italy in particular. Far brighter performance than we saw in 2010.

My only problem with it all is the tactical naivety that Hodgson showed that I've discussed before and the lack of a game plan. The players themselves, especially the attacking ones, were impressive. Find a decent holding midfielder who's name doesn't begin with G and tighten up the defense and we've got a very decent team with lots of pace to hurt teams on the counter in particular.

Team doesn't need a massive reform like it needed in 2010 with some truly dreadful showings. Teams who have performed much worse, Portugal for example, are still in the competition, we were just very unlucky in numerous ways. This really isn't a bad side.

All that will amount to nought if the guys in the centre offer little to no attacking thrust.

 

[Eriksen]

All that will amount to nought if the guys in the centre offer little to no attacking thrust.

Well, I don't think Rooney will be there for 2018, at least not as a starter. I could see a front three of Sterling, Sturridge, Walcott. Which if Sterling and Sturridge continue to develop as well as they have is a pretty fearsome trio. Really rate Walcott too, great productivity and its a big shame he was out for this one.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

Gerrard - "There is no truth I'll be making any announcement on my England future in the next week. I need more time than that."

As if it were up for debate. Your time is over, quit before you embarrass yourself further.

quite! fecking Hodgson urging him to stay on, NO, both of you need to feck off, you have done enough damage to English football as it is!

at this rate I will boycott England whilst Hodgson remains in charge, he's a disgrace, we have done worse at this world cup than the USA for fecks sake, they don't even know what the sport is called!

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

wrong thread

Hodgson OUT

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

One of the most negative interviews I've ever seen. He is not the manager for England in the future

he's a mediocre manager with zero ambition, zero tactical nous, zero ability to motivate players, zero ability to make the right decisions.

 

[Goalfather]

Well, I don't think Rooney will be there for 2018, at least not as a starter. I could see a front three of Sterling, Sturridge, Walcott. Which if Sterling and Sturridge continue to develop as well as they have is a pretty fearsome trio. Really rate Walcott too, great productivity and its a big shame he was out for this one.

I was actually referring to the central midfield positions. Maybe Wilshere might be that player but he has a lot of developing to do.

 

[Eriksen]

I was actually referring to the central midfield positions. Maybe Wilshere might be that player but he has a lot of developing to do.

Wilshere has the potential and in 4 years we'll probably see a different player, sadly his development has stalled somewhat but if he starts to fulfill it then we have a top midfielder for that tournament. Henderson in four years, well people might not like him but he's a great engine, does the dirty work and has improved immensely and is a key component of that Liverpool side. Will also be more experienced and more mature for the next tournament.

Hopefully we see some more talent coming through in that area as well. We'll see I guess.

 

[Eriksen]

If we beat Costa Rica and Italy beat Uruguay, I will be so, so annoyed.

It'd be so close yet so far. Then again, not much danger of that. Costa Rica will probably win.

 

[eddiebb]

I think it's the pressure and fear of losing that kills England, nothing to do with not being good enough or not being smart enough. I think we'll be surprised by the performance in the Costa Rica game without any pressure, and I certainly wouldn't bet against a significant win (maybe 2-3 goal margin)

 

[NoWinNoFee]

Wilshere has the potential and in 4 years we'll probably see a different player, sadly his development has stalled somewhat but if he starts to fulfill it then we have a top midfielder for that tournament. Henderson in four years, well people might not like him but he's a great engine, does the dirty work and has improved immensely and is a key component of that Liverpool side. Will also be more experienced and more mature for the next tournament.

Hopefully we see some more talent coming through in that area as well. We'll see I guess.

Ravel Morrison is the one, all talk of Barkley/Ox and Sterling in my opinion Morrison is the most talented of the lot.

 

[Eriksen]

Ravel Morrison is the one, all talk of Barkley/Ox and Sterling in my opinion Morrison is the most talented of the lot.

Bit of a bell by all accounts though.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

If we beat Costa Rica and Italy beat Uruguay, I will be so, so annoyed.

It'd be so close yet so far. Then again, not much danger of that. Costa Rica will probably win.

with Hodgson in charge I wouldn't hold your breath on us playing well against Costa Rica.

I think it's the pressure and fear of losing that kills England, nothing to do with not being good enough or not being smart enough. I think we'll be surprised by the performance in the Costa Rica game without any pressure, and I certainly wouldn't bet against a significant win (maybe 2-3 goal margin)

rubbish, other nations cope with the pressure, if we had a decent manager so would we, we cope fine with the pressure to qualify most times as well, be amazed if Hodgson has the tactical nous to mastermind a win against Costa Rica tbh.