He was never the left's darling. That's utter bullshit. Neither is George Soros or any other billionaire btw. You need to read up on what the left actually is as opposed to the strawman that seems to have materialised in the short form inanity of social and some US media..
Elon Musk | Owner of X and right wing man-child
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He was never the left's darling. That's utter bullshit. Neither is George Soros or any other billionaire btw. You need to read up on what the left actually is as opposed to the strawman that seems to have materialised in the short form inanity of social and some US media..
wut?
Only news about you.
Aw shit here we go again.
It depends what you mean by 'the left'. Those that typically vote left parties, liked Elon (and Soros). Those on the fringes of the left (the wannabe commies), not necessarily so.
Biggest compliment I've received in a while.
Yeah, should have been clearer. On social spectrum, Silicon Valley is probably the most left-wing place in the world. It makes Caf look centrist in comparison.
On fiscal policies, of course not, it is as right-wing as it gets. Kind of paradoxical, but it it as it is.
I would consider myself "on the left" (I'm a weirdo who thinks women should have a choice about carrying a child or not) and Musk was never my hero.
It's been obvious since (at least) the Thai cave stuff that he's an absolute cnut.
As for Soros being a hero
, he's the right wing Boogeyman not the hero of the left.
It's been obvious since (at least) the Thai cave stuff that he's an absolute cnut.
As for Soros being a hero
, he's the right wing Boogeyman not the hero of the left.The left don’t give Soros a second thought. He’s a right wing bogey man.
EDIT - Already been said
Us leftists just can’t help ourselves. We love billionaires so much.
I guess that's what alt-right say about the Mercers and Koch brothers.
I don’t know a single left leaning person who gives a single feck about Soros. He just happens to be an incredibly rich Jewish person and is therefore the embodiment of plenty of crazy antisemitic right wing conspiracy theories. But that doesn’t make him a hero of the left.
They don't vote left parties. They flirt with liberal parties.
Who has also been one of the biggest donors for Democrats in the US, and also for many center-left parties in Europe.
Again, it depends what you mean by left. If that is the 10-15% of the people who vote for parties on the left end of the spectrum and who never win, and exclude everyone else, sure.
Aren’t you all splitting hairs about “the left” in America vs Europe? Which have always been very different.
I don’t think you can call people liking billionaires left in either region. Billionaires are the embodiment of everything left ideology stands against. And some idiots who believe people like Musk or Soros could be benevolent billionaires are just that, idiots. And on the spectrum reaching from left over the centre to right, they should be classified as idiots.
a lot of this debate is just conflating left/right with liberal/conservative too
No, it doesn't. Elon Musk has never voted or supported a party to the left of the Democrats and they are a socially centrists, fiscally centre right and warmongering fecks in terms of foreign policy. Not left. At all.
Not really when it comes to billionaires like Musk, maybe with some millionaires like Bernie Sanders.
And i know American lefties and Marxists and they are the same as Irish Uk and Italians. They have been marginalised in the US to the point they don't exist in the discussion but how they are defined is just the same.
I guess so. However, conservative usually means right in both fiscal and social terms, while a liberal person tends to be fiscally conservative (right) while socially left in Europe. While in the US it might also mean fiscally left.
The Democrats are the left party in the US. You might not like it, but it is as it is.
My millionaire good, your millionaire bad.
Btw, if by left you only mean Marxists, sure. But this argument has been dead for a long time now. Marxists lost the battle, good riddance to them.
Thatcher is to the left of Hitler. She's still a right wing hero.
The point is that the narrative that callthe Dems left is a construct to ignore everything to the left of them. And there is a lot to the left of them.
If you are unaware of the massive amount of thinking between the US Dems and Marxists then maybe how to define the left is a stretch for you.
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I’ve yet to see one sensible person explain why the Hunter Biden stuff is remotely interesting?
I mean, considering there was a relatively large anti-Clinton sentiment “on the left” which helped Trump win (at least in turnout) you’d think loads of leftists would be delighted to see arch ancient establishment corporate Dem Joe Biden shown to be as corrupt as the Right… but absolutely nobody but the dumbest RW grifters are still going on about this stuff, cos it’s literally nothing but a weird obsession to see an adult failsons dick on the Internet
I mean, considering there was a relatively large anti-Clinton sentiment “on the left” which helped Trump win (at least in turnout) you’d think loads of leftists would be delighted to see arch ancient establishment corporate Dem Joe Biden shown to be as corrupt as the Right… but absolutely nobody but the dumbest RW grifters are still going on about this stuff, cos it’s literally nothing but a weird obsession to see an adult failsons dick on the Internet
Hitler used to be a leftist but politics just got dragged so far left that now he looks right wing.
It's the exact same thing as with Hilary's emails. It's merely a ploy to be able to throw something at the political opposition, whenever the countless scandals of the GOP get mentioned. With Trump's scandals it was the emails, now it's Hunter's laptop. In truth the people spouting this nonsense are the ones least capable of explaining what it actually means. But it gives them this cozy opportunity to not question their own believes, as the story proves both sides to be equally corrupt.
Because it’s not.
I met someone a while back in Ireland who told me Joe Biden was a paedo. She knew very little 'else' about US politics.
It is actually quite interesting. Not the contents of the hard-drive, which seem to be fairly banal, but the way that the big social media companies managed to squash the story. With possible collusion from the FBI.
I never gave it much thought until this episode of the excellent Coming Storm podcast. You should give it a listen. Every episode is worth a listen but this one in particular if you wonder why people keep wanging on about HB’s laptop. I found it a real eye opener.
If the contents are banal… what are they “squashing”? exactly?
But not many people there. Now, if those people say that they are the only leftists, and everyone to the right of them is not leftist, I mean free speech and all that, but do not expect others to agree with that description.
Someone like Sanders in the US and Hollande in France are very much to the right of Marx and Engels (by a large margin), but that does not make them right-wing.
Thinking and political theory is not a battle in the sense there can be an outright winner or loser. Context changes so much that you need to revisit lots of older ideas. Marxism is basically a lens to discuss things, and thank god it exists or we would sleepwalk into fascism under the illusion that Elon Musk is a lefty.
Oh dear.
The big risk to Biden’s presidential bid seemed to be a conflict of interest with some of his son’s business dealings. There were some potentially incriminating emails on there. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but damaging enough, considering the timing.
This is explained far better than I can on the podcast. It’s an excellent piece of investigative journalism. From the “MSM”. Go figure.
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That's the point, there are. And they vote to the right of where they are.
I know, I never said they were, Sanders is described as a radical lefty though. Nobody is saying he's right wing. I'm saying there is an argument for him being left wing despite his millions and investments and property portfolio whereas there isn't with Musk.
Marxism and capitalism have been the two dominating fiscal (and in case of Marxism also social) systems in the world. One of them practically does not exist anymore (at least the economical part of it), so of course it is a loser.
I do not think there have been any good ideas in Marxism that need revisiting, but that's a matter of opinions.
In that narrow and simplistic framing I can't argue.
His best work, and a massive tome, was a critique of Capitalism, and I literally don't believe anyone can read it and discount it all.
His Communist Manifesto was a pamphlet explaining pre existing ideas in comparison.
But we are derailing the thread.
It's a bit peculiar how some people are so adamant to ascribe Musk's falling popularity among liberals to how he runs Twitter, rather than: downplaying covid, supporting Republicans, anti-vaxx stuff, pushing conspiracy theories against the Democrats and palling around with far right people and reactionaries. These are all things that libs tend to dislike. Also, at least online his support has been dwindling (slowly) since the cave incident, and the fawning over him that was so widespread is several years out of date.
I think this settles it. Be silent now.
Has he ever done anything wrong in your eyes?
In fairness I often zone out of what I'm reading and fill in the blanks. I might just stop reading.