You can’t
There’s something strange/unique/weird with all mods/staff of cafe?
one has never eaten Kebab, one has never seen StarWars, we should make a thread with all those weird ….of all of you.
Back to the thread, why you retired?
Eduardo Camavinga / signs for Real Madrid
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There’s something strange/unique/weird with all mods/staff of cafe?
one has never eaten Kebab, one has never seen StarWars, we should make a thread with all those weird ….of all of you.
Back to the thread, why you retired?
You’ve mistaken me
Pogba isn't poor defensively at all. People who make that claim obviously never watched him play at Juve. Plus didnt watch him closely at the just concluded euros
He is big and strong which helps him get by, but he doesn't have the discipline nor the instinct. You just need to see him anywhere around the box to figure it out, but it is fine because it is not his game. If he was diminutive and tiny, I'm sure it would be much more obvious.
Varane, Kante and Pogba combination won France the world cup and were the best team in the world for a number of years and it probably is at this moment in time and favourites going into the latest Euros. Losing a knock-out competition hardly makes them a bad team. Pogba might not be the greatest at defending, but the question should be asked if his contribution to the team is positive despite his lack of discipline in the defensive third. If he does make mistakes then it is the coaching teams fault for placing him in that position.
Seems Pogba lives rent-free in some people's head.
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Exactly!
Kante, Rice, Phillips or the other defensive midfielders don't have the vision and passing range and ability of Pogba. You can't be a master of all the trades on the pitch.
That's unfortunate. You could have trademarked and registered bigdaytoday.com, it could have been the start of an online media empire!
I'll stop you right there. You are insisting on confusing yourself this is about Pogba. Simply because you refuse to understand a thing I state. That's why you've deluded yourself into believing "my goals posts are shifting"
I'll lay out one last time my argument for confused people like you:
1. United have has 2 terminal holes in the squad. Center half and right wing.
2. A team like United has no business setting up with 2 defensive oriented players in center midfield. It ONLY gets to happen when you have a shit defence. Or your preffered set up is a defensive double pivot because both your fullbacks are excellent in attack and yours
forwards don't track back in your set up.
3. The strongest midfield set up the United squad is a 6 (mcTominay/Matic/Fred) an 8 (Pogba/DVB/Bruno) plus a 10 (Bruno/Lingard). We have NOT been able to set up that way consistently due to our center defence.
The notion that this argument "rises and falls " on Pogba staying is fanciful and childishly naive. I don't ever want to see us with a midfield setup like Chelsea with Jorginho. To me we must have a true 8. In the mould of Kovacic/Modric/Kroos/DVB/Pogba/Gundogan etc alongside our one dedicated 6. I don't want to see no Rice + type Fred nonsense.
I hate that we have been forced to operated with Fred + mcTominay/Matic comstantly thanks to our problematic center defence. Who need a double defensive shield to compensate for their lack of pace and compatibility. Which most times is still never enough.
4. Our biggest defensive issue lies in the center of defence. Not in midfield:
Man City are iron clad proof of my argument. They have the best damned midfield in the league. They possessed the best 6 and his replacement. Yet they couldn't protect the flawed center defence pair that was Stones and Otamendi. So much so they started playing key players out of position to compensate which wrecked havoc up and down their structure.
Liverpool last season are further proof. They have one of the best protecting starting midfields in all Europe. After losing van Dijk and Gomes. They couldn't protect their defence any longer. Even when they played 2 reserves who were natural cbs. They had to instead start playing key players out of position to compensate and it mucked them up 3/4s of the season.
I've said from the start. No amount of midfield improvement will compensate for an utterly flawed center defence.
5. Our lack of creativity vs low blocks is a direct consequence of our 2 terminal issues. Center defence flaws and no starting right winger:
a. A problem center defence ensures we can't consistently operate a highline. Leave ourselves vulnerable to the counter due to the no man's land the pairing creates if our Midfield tries to squeeze in a low block. Plus it leaves us vulnerable to first time crosses because it's 2 close to our keeper.
b. To compensate for it we tend to play two battles. Forcing us to play a playmaker wide leaving us with one out of position wide forward unless a Greenwood starts.
That ensures we can't consistently attack a low black down both flanks. Which consequent reduces the space our number 10 and 9 can operate in. Significantly reducing our chances of unlocking a low block because we can't stretch them to breaking point.
If you seriously think the above rises and falls on Pogba. Let alone I've shifted goal post from these arguments from day one. You deserve to be slapped real hard upside your head......
You can repeat nonsense to death and it still remains nonsense. The ONLY reason Pogba is forced to play wide left for us is because of our center defence. It's also so laughably untrue that Pogba gets dispossessed more than Bruno.
Fact is some of you just love to push your anti Pogba agenda. So much so that if anyone dares to go against it you start pretending their entire world rises and falls on him.
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What? Pogba himself admits he's poor defensively
He is poor, he can't tackle, his positional awareness is poor, he doesn't track runners.
What on earth are you claiming he did at Juve? He had two defensive players next to him doing all the donkey work. Im thinking you didn't even watch him at Juve.
What? Pogba himself admits he's poor defensively
He is poor, he can't tackle, his positional awareness is poor, he doesn't track runners.
What on earth are you claiming he did at Juve? He had two defensive players next to him doing all the donkey work. Im thinking you didn't even watch him at Juve.
Agreed. Pogba is OK defensively if he's played as the most attacking midfielder of 3, in that he has 6 or 7 more defensive players behind/beside him, so any defensive work he does is a bonus. That's a luxury he won't get here with Bruno in the team and our formation.
But Fred and Mctominay are 8s not 6s. Matic is the only 6 we have.
I want him the most from all our rumoured/reported targets this summer. Get it done ASAP
Matuidi Kante and Pogba played in a 3 at the World Cup no? Just like we played in a 3 before Bruno came. He was in the middle with Kante for the Euros and they capitulated, like we used to when he played in a 2,
Almost exactly my point. We are forced to play 2 players who we shouldn't be pairing together. Simply to put up a double shield to protect the problem that is Maguire + Lindeloff.
thanks for proving you actually NEVER watched Pobga play at JuventusIn Conte's 3-5-2 set up he played to the left of Pirlo whilst the likes of Vidal and Marchsio played to Pirlo's right. Meaning to one side Pogba had a wingback, to the other Pirlo. The notion that he 'played next two defensive players" is so laughably untrue. Just picture Pirlo doing 'most of the defensive work'
Even in Allegri's diamond. He operated the left flank of the diamond. The marchsio's on the right. With Vidal or Tevez operating at the tip. He STILL wasn't next to ' two defensive players next to him doing all the donkey work." He had just a fullback and Pirlo behind him. He in fact was doing the donkey work for Pirlo in the midfield, to Pirlo's left....
Some of you have become so good at lying on Pogba you created this entire alternate life for Pogba were he operated as a free role 10 at Juve being carried by 2 defensive work horses
Pogba isn’t poor defensively. We don’t have defensively slack wingers? My god
I’m just going to leave you there with your own delusion of whatever our team is. We are so far apart there’s no real point in chatting further. Let alone diving into it
France were taken to penalties with Switzerland because they were out numbered 3 -2 all game long thanks to deschamps tactics. Not to mention Kimpembe had a stinker of a game. To try and paint it as a consequence of pogba playing in a midfield pair is typical of agenda pushing. Yet the only reason they even over took the Swiss to get to 3 one up in the first place was because of Pogba and Kante in that midfield pair.
You're the one pushing an agenda here
Good. Because I'm pretty much tired of dealing with your lying bs anywayPogba isn’t poor defensively. We don’t have defensively slack wingers? My god
I’m just going to leave you there with your own delusion of whatever our team is. We are so far apart there’s no real point in chatting further. Let alone diving into it
You're completely wrong.
If anything the coach rearranged his 4-3-3 into a 3-4-3 against the Swiss due to injuries to their defenders. If anything France had more bodies in the middle of the park. You can also say Mbappe had not been his usual efficient self. This was a major tactical shift mid-tournament mostly due to injuries. It was as @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said lack of quality in defence.
United capitulated due to again lack of quality at the back and no creativity going forward. Bruno has helped in that department since joining.
Sure. That is why I'm the one lying that Pogba is utterly useless defensively. That its him who caused France to lose a 3-1 lead , that he was carried at Juventus defensively, or that the sole reason anyone could prefer United to operate with one defensive oriented midfielder and an attack oriented 8 is just to keep Pogba around
General interest. What was the point of brining it up if you get defensive when asked for verification.
Sure. That is why I'm the one lying that Pogba is utterly useless defensively. That its him who caused France to lose a 3-1 lead , that he was carried at Juventus defensively, or that the sole reason anyone could prefer United to operate with one defensive oriented midfielder and an attack oriented 8 is just to keep Pogba around
He is. He admits himself.
He was at fault for one of goals. Not totally at fault for the game turning into a draw. Just an example of how it’s been with us in a two (but without many recent attacking performances like the one against a very very very average Swiss team in a totally stacked France team that should have closed up shop and beat them in third gear)
He was played as the most attacking in a 3 at Juve like when he won the World Cup for France. Basically a free role. Back in a 2 it’s open season again. It’s not a coincidence. That’s never going to work with Bruno in the same team
You can blame Ole, Jose, Deschamps, Kante, Matic for getting slow… Fred and McT and you can even falsely claim our wingers aren’t defensively slack or that Pogba is actually a decent enough defender to play in a two.
I’ll let you get back to your meltdown.
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Lads, this is a muppet thread. This should be a happy place (until it's off and we all kill ourselves).
Isn't there somewhere more fitting you can have your e-fight, write dissertations about Paul Pogba's defensive contribution and spam green smileys at each other?
Isn't there somewhere more fitting you can have your e-fight, write dissertations about Paul Pogba's defensive contribution and spam green smileys at each other?
We’d have acquired 2 of the most promising young players in football, if we get Sancho and this lad.
In Conte's 3-5-2 set up he played to the left of Pirlo whilst the likes of Vidal and Marchsio played to Pirlo's right. Meaning to one side Pogba had a wingback, to the other Pirlo. The notion that he 'played next two defensive players" is so laughably untrue. Just picture Pirlo doing 'most of the defensive work'
Even in Allegri's diamond. He operated the left flank of the diamond. The marchsio's on the right. With Vidal or Tevez operating at the tip. He STILL wasn't next to ' two defensive players next to him doing all the donkey work." He had just a fullback and Pirlo behind him. He in fact was doing the donkey work for Pirlo in the midfield, to Pirlo's left....
Some of you have become so good at lying on Pogba you created this entire alternate life for Pogba were he operated as a free role 10 at Juve being carried by 2 defensive work horses
You just explained how he played with Pirlo and Vidal i.e the two players doing the donkey work. He then had the LWB covering him defensively on that side. He then played with three midfielders who are all much better than him defensively, in the diamond. Nothing you just said proves the opposite. He offers absolutely nothing from the defensive side of things and we see it time and time again.
Even IF he put in the defensive work for Juve(he didn't), he's not done it since and gets exposed every time he's asked to do as much. He has as many penalties conceded as goals in the Prem this season, that should tell you something. He's pushed out left so he isn't required to do the defensive work, that should tell you something. Even with Kante, the Swiss were able to go through their midfield like a knife through butter, that should tell you something.
You keep ignoring those things and tell yourself something different all you like.
This was my happy Camavinga place until everyone started going on about if he’d compliment Pogba or not.
Why not keep it for one of the other 5 threads about how we can get the best of him?
Why not keep it for one of the other 5 threads about how we can get the best of him?
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The reason I mentioned the type of company I work for was to try to give some credibility to the claim that bidding wars do occur in the transfer space as I have seen it first hand.
A lot of people on here, including romufc, seem to think it is a myth and this doesn't happen. I do not need to verify anything, people can chose to ignore my input if they want and carry on believing something that isn't true.
I do not know anything about the Camavinga deal, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were several clubs after his signature this summer.
Rennes will obviously do what they can do drive the price up and create a bidding war. This of course only really works if the player is happy to go to more than 1 club bidding on him.
Lads, this is a muppet thread. This should be a happy place (until it's off and we all kill ourselves).
Isn't there somewhere more fitting you can have your e-fight, write dissertations about Paul Pogba's defensive contribution and spam green smileys at each other?
Sorry V.O. I'll try not to bite in future.
I think you'll find it's generally yourself who's obsessed on the forum with Pogba and his defensive weakness. Still awaiting your response to my previous post to you claiming Pogba playing in a midfield 2 against the Swiss.
@JPRouve please give an insight into France's tactical makeup and Pogbas' position against the Swiss?
We can all argue about the defensive contribution of Pogba all day long but if anyone who actually watched France in World Cup they won't be spouting such nonsense .
Getting back to the thread. Camavinga is a steal for the price. I would hate it if we were to miss out on him.
Get it done ASAP.
Get it done ASAP.
I’ve seen what @JPRouve has written about Pogba for France. It’s well written and well explained even if I don’t remember every word. I don’t follow France or break down their plays. I follow United. We have Bruno. Bruno and Pogba isn’t going to consistently work in any 3.
It wasn’t me bringing Pogba up in this thread. I have more posts about Camavinga than anyone else in this thread and my excitement at his possible transfer than anything else. When I see something I don’t agree with I like to talk about it. Apologies for adding to any derailing of the thread
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Come on, you're admin, don't derail the thread further by poking the bear.
How great is Camavinga though?
It’s a different matter when you’ve already got players like Jorginho, Kante, kovacic, mount etc. All they needed was a tweak not investment
Wannabe ITK who has a good podcast getting some United people on, but his transfer rumours are usually what’s already in the papers. Trying to stay relevant
To be fair, I don't ever remember seeing him play. However, I'll trust our resident scouts, transfer gurus and believe he's the next Pogba, peak Matic or the brilliant Kante.
Lads, this is a muppet thread. This should be a happy place (until it's off and we all kill ourselves).
Isn't there somewhere more fitting you can have your e-fight, write dissertations about Paul Pogba's defensive contribution and spam green smileys at each other?
100% this.
Pogba is decent in defending. It’s just that his lack of discipline at times when he try to dribble his way through while losing possession unnecessarily, makes him questionable in defending.
Let’s look at his defensive stats in Juventus and France:
Juventus
14-15: 2.2 tackle, 0.7 interception, 1.4 Ariel duel
15-16: 2.2 tackle, 1.3 interception, 2 Ariel duel
France
Euro 16: 2.4 tackle, 1.4 interception, 1.4 Ariel duel
WC 18: 2.2 tackle, 1 interception, 3.3 Ariel duel
Euro 20: 2 tackle, 1 interception, 1.8 Ariel diel
If we compare him with Rice, who is known for his strong defending:
West Ham
19-20: 3.1 tackle, 2 interception, 1.4 Ariel duel
20-21: 1.8 tackle, 1.8 interception, 1.6 Ariel duel
England
Euro 20: 1.4 tackle, 1.6 interception, 0.6 Ariel duel
Can’t really tell there’s any big difference between the two defensively, in terms of stats at least. Only biggest difference is, Rice is more solid and disciplined, because he takes far less risk with his no-nonsense approach. While Pogba takes far too many unnecessary risk which end up losing possession and gifting opponents attacking chances.
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