Makes sense with Madrid skint for cash and trying to raise funds for the likes of Mbappe or Haaland next year and P$G already have a crowded midfield and are reportedly looking to sign Pogba as well
Eduardo Camavinga / signs for Real Madrid
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Makes sense with Madrid skint for cash and trying to raise funds for the likes of Mbappe or Haaland next year and P$G already have a crowded midfield and are reportedly looking to sign Pogba as well
Pogba has slowly been replaced in our set up. We've seen 3 different forms of Pogba at the club. The one that plays at the free role , the one that plays at left midfield and the one that plays at the double pivot. Free role Pogba has already been replaced by Bruno, left midfield playmaking Pogba did not play frequently can be replaced by Sancho. Double pivot Pogba with defensive duties is now who I am saying should be replaced. At that position Pogbas skillset is watered down and isn't as hard to replace as when he's higher up the pitch. At that position he can also be a defensive liability. Ole himself started playing McFred and moved Pogba away from there. If your position is being taking by Mctominay then surely you're not that irreplaceable.
You're saying we need a DM to get the best out of Pogba but my post implied and what I think is if Pogba stays, we wouldnt get the best of him because we wouldnt get a DM unless we sell him.
To put it this way. Do you think a midfield of DM- Fred/Camavinga - Bruno would be more effective next season both defensively and offensively compared to a midfield of Pogba - Fred/Camavinga - Bruno,?
Camavinga has better passing with his eyes closed than Fred and McTominay combined. Their limitations on the ball hamper us significantly.
I approve of any player being able to play CDM that can also pass in a two man midfield.
I approve of any player being able to play CDM that can also pass in a two man midfield.
Rashford Cavani Sancho
Fernandes
Camavinga Pogba
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
2 players off a decent 11. Spend the money and get it done. 50m Varane and 30m Camavinga are both no brainers. Get them in before pre season.Fernandes
Camavinga Pogba
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
The way people talk about Pogba you'd think he's Djemba-Djemba I swear. I geniunely think many vocal supporters just watch the post match analysis and look on twitter to form their opinions, because he was clearly our best player from the time he got healthy about halfway through the season to the end (besides Shaw ofc). Any midfield we've played without him has been considerably poorer, and turns us into a grifter side that can't keep the ball or cut through teams without banging long balls or relying on Bruno to do everything.
I don't understand what you mean by the bolded part, but I'm posting on the assumption that we would bring in Camavinga to pair with Fred. You already think it is a bizarre theory, so trying to explain this would be a bit awkward. I'd like to provide some data, but I don't see this as something that someone would make a data for.
It is about player's stronger and weaker sides. There are exceptions, and players could easily adapt, but there are generally more right-footed footballers, and in the midfield areas, the team without the ball are more inclined to protect the middle.
A player's stronger side being on the opposition's weaker side or the side that the opponent is less inclined to protect is a favorable match-up. It is natural, and makes it easier to retain possession against the press. When the middle is crowded out, you fall back to the advantage of moving the ball to your stronger side against the opposite players weaker side.
A left-footed player playing on the left side of a midfield two - like Fred and Matic does for us when paired with McTominay, has the advantage of having their stronger side away from the middle. A right-footed player playing on the left side of a midfield two has the advantage of having his stronger side on the opposite player's weaker side. A left-footed midfielder playing on the right side of a midfield two - as would be the case with two lefties - is disadvantaged on both counts, which is my point. It is not rigid, and there are exceptions, but the small advantages matter.
It is all theories based on my experience and understanding of football, and I wish I could provide some data to back it up, but one will never understand how uncomfortable it is to play on the right of a midfield two compared to the other side as a midfielder who favours the left side, until they experience it at a decent level and are unable to adapt. The zones the right-sided midfielder in a two is naturally expected to occupy is not favourable for a left-footer.
Have you ever thought about why a partnership of two left-footed CBs rarely lasts, or why Nemanja Matic avoids the right side of the pitch completely when he has the ball?
That’s a wicked team, I worry defensively but our transitions and passing would be a lot better surely?
Two lefties.I guess we should have drop Keane or Scholes back then since both right footed
What can exciting player, I would love for this to get done.
He seems to be a more dynamic, quicker version of Mousa Dembele.
He seems to be a more dynamic, quicker version of Mousa Dembele.
Here's the thing people are overlooking: even if it's true that Pogba intends to leave, what if United get Camavinga and possibly Varane as well as Sancho, and Pogba's role shifts further forward, left side, which he prefers? Now imagine United clicking and being successful next season. What few people are factoring in is that Pogba might well change his mind if he's an integral part of a club whose fortunes are on the rise, which is very possible if we acquire these new players to add to what is already a formidable squad.
Right, so because it's 2 lefties it's a problem, 2 righties is perfectly fine.
That's some next level nonsense.
Think it could be more like this:
Cavani
Fernandes Sancho
Saul Pogba Camavinga
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
I'm trying not to get too excited about this, but please, I want it to happen so bad.
He was. I voiced this same thing multiple times. Only Shaw was more consistent than him last season
He was. I voiced this same thing multiple times. Only Shaw was more consistent than him last season
Let’s agree to disagree. The balance you say the poster was searching for includes a DM, which is what we require right now and after Pogba’s departure regardless.
Which is what prompted my response, I would love us to sign Camavinga but we still need a DM. It’s also the obvious thing that any side needs to do to get the best of Pogba.
It makes no sense to want rid of one of Europe’s best midfielders so we can search for the same balance we need now to accommodate him. The net result will mean we are worse off.
But let’s leave if there and climb aboard the Camavinga train eh.
Maybe he will turn into the next Kante and we can let MCFred bomb on and do some real damage.
The one thing we can agree to disagree on is that a DM is all we need to be able to have Pogba in our team. The only way Pogba works in our team is with a CDM AND a player like Fred or Camavinga willing to press, tackle and hustle.
We don't play a midfield three and never will with Bruno. So it will never work with Pogba.
With the creativity of Bruno and Sancho we could easily play with Fred and Camavinga behind them, I'd still prefer a better passer next to either of them, but they have to be defensive minded. I'm probably getting ahead of myself but Garner will be that player for us, in my opinion. With Varane we'd also have two CBs very good at passing through the lines.
For many the argument with Pogba is less about actively getting rid of him and more being resigned to the fact he doesn't want to stay and could leave on a free. There is no reason to believe we couldnt be better if he did leave by spending correctly, like Liverpool getting rid of Coutinho and getting Fabinho.
They require different types of DM's though.
Most people think a player more like a Rice or Ndidi is what would be needed to play next to Pogba. Somebody who is a pure defensive beast, but who basically keeps all the playmaking duties on Pogba.
Whereas from what I've seen and heard, Camavinga is more like a Fred style of player, albeit bigger, stronger, faster and a much better dribbler. The player who probably works best with him is more a playmaker who has good defensive positioning. A Carrick or Jorginho type of player. Basically the same type of player Chelsea try to play next to Kante, and that many of us think we should play next to Fred.
Personally I don't think Pogba-Rice (or similar) works, especially since we use two out-and-out attacking wide players who don't do much defensively. I also don't think Pogba suits being the main playmaker out from the back. It's something he can do well at times, but not consistently. And if Pogba does end up going (which looks quite likely), having a fairly limited DM means that we'd have to find one hell of a creative playmaker to replace him.
For me, a combination like Jorginho-Fred is a better midfield pivot than Rice-Pogba. So if Camavinga can ultimately be a better version of Fred, we just need to find our Jorginho. Locatelli perhaps, although I'm not sure if he's solid enough defensively. The ideal would be Garner but he's probably at least one or two seasons away from being able to fill that role.
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If we get Camavinga, he won't be someone who we'll start. He will be slowly introduced, whilst we phase Matic out.
Actually, I can imagine the idea would be to give Matic's minutes to Camavinga, with the former being there for the experience, to mentor and possibly a coaching role at the end of next season (a bit like what we're doing with Mata, if rumours are to believed.
Next season, I expect:
Fred/Camavinga (left footed players) - Pogba/McTominay (right-footed players)
Garner to go on loan and Matic to be a bit park player.
Actually, I can imagine the idea would be to give Matic's minutes to Camavinga, with the former being there for the experience, to mentor and possibly a coaching role at the end of next season (a bit like what we're doing with Mata, if rumours are to believed.
Next season, I expect:
Fred/Camavinga (left footed players) - Pogba/McTominay (right-footed players)
Garner to go on loan and Matic to be a bit park player.
Ability wise Pogba is out best player no doubt, and one of top 10 players in the world maybe. His ceiling is definitely much higher than that of Bruno.
But sometimes you just know that certain top players just don't work out at certain clubs. Not necessarily his faults. Just like Veron, Di Maria. We had 5 seasons to see that. Considering his age, wages and current value, it may be best(and probably the last chance) for both parties to "cut losses".
I'm surprised at how short minded the idea is that Camavinga wouldn't be a starter. Fred / Mctomminay are good to a point as their ceiling for me at least is around the top 8. In order to begin to win competitions they are the next in line to be rotated in the squad for the option of better quality.
I said it could be a problem, I didn't type anything about 2 righties being perfectly fine, and I was talking about a transfer we are interested in making, not about two players that played years ago.
The amount of people suggesting Camavinga wouldn't be a starter is bizarre. Regardless of his age he's already far better than Fred or McTominay. He might get rotated every now and then for a rest but he would be firmly 1st choice in midfield for us.
I agree. You only have to see how the French are talking about his future. They already know what he will become.
Like the English are the only ones that really know what Greenwood and Foden will become yet.
There would be games for Matic, Fred and McTominay. But I don't see any of them as first 11 players against an unnamed opponent.
Clubs don't have money
Did you tell that to Sir Alex when he sold Veron?
Well put!!! Some ridiculous comments disengaged from reality. Welcome to Redcafe twilight zone!
??
Why would Solskjær suddenly change to some weird 4321 formation? Everything points to Solskjær sticking with his preferred 4231 and there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same formation f.ex. Bayern Munich utilises.
Between Veron, Beckham, Ruud and Keane, I get the impression that most posters on here would have been calling for Ferguson's head on the regular.
Agreed. He's probably given away more penalties than defensive lapses have cost us.
Any competent athletic DM becuase, ya know, we don’t have one. Which was kinda my point, but it’s lost here.
Absolutely, this is the signing we should be making. Like others have said Rooney type signing. 100% behind this, I hope it happens.
good god, could you actually imagine a summer of Sancho, Varane and Camavinga. Don't you play with my feelings like that 
Defensively yes, offensively no. I don’t think we are all that defensively woeful at the moment with Pogba in the team though, which sort of guides my point.
I don’t want to lose one of the most creative players in Europe for a better defensive player as I think there are more ways than one to skin a cat.
We can partner him with an actual DM instead of the half arsed measure of Matic and sign Varane, instruct fullbacks to cover more if required.
good god, could you actually imagine a summer of Sancho, Varane and Camavinga. Don't you play with my feelings like that
I am dreaming about it for weeks now, even before serious links popped up to Camavinga. I knew we had some interest and with him not signing an extension and us needing a midfielder, i dared to dream. Would be the best summer since forever.
good god, could you actually imagine a summer of Sancho, Varane and Camavinga. Don't you play with my feelings like that
Wait until you see who we sign with the Pogba + Martial + Lingard + Bailly money.
Thank you! I read MEN, and you would think that Pogba couldn't play on the local pub team. I don't think that he wants to leave either. Under Mourinho, he and a few other players seemed to be getting frustrated with the manager, the style of play, and the seeming lack of hope for the future. My reading is that Pogba and others are now on board with the direction that United is going under Ole. Clearing out a few more players this summer and bringing in Sancho, and maybe Camavinga (possibly the best young CM in Europe) and Varane gives more reason for hope.
I did actually. Got him on speed dial
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