Eden Hazard

I can understand Coutinho being very debatable, but I think he's going to surpass Hazard from here on out. As for Mbappe, hugely premature I know, and of course Hazard has shown more over the last 8 years, Mbappe is just starting his third season. I just think time is the only reason Hazard is put ahead of him. Mbappe has shown not just in Paris, but with Monaco, and not just in Ligue 1 but in the CL, that he is going to surpass anything Hazard will do, short of a devastating injury or two.

I'm glad we can agree at least that Neymar is above him.
 
giorno said:
It's abundantly clear that real madrid don't rate him anywhere near Neymar or Mbappé.

Coutinho was indeed better than Hazard last season

Hazard needs to do it in CL to be comparable to Neymar

His WC was good, but nothing special, not some all time performance that will be remembered 20 years from now, like say James in 2014
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There wasn't a single all-time performance in that WC. He was still Belgium's best player and one the best in the tournament. Coutinho was better last season in terms of end-product, but he was taken away from Liverpool and it didn't matter one bit.

Take away Hazard from this team and they would struggle to score.
 
Coutinho a level above Hazard? I’ve heard it all now. I bet if Real Madrid or Barca signed Mark Noble you’d say he’s better than him too :lol:
 
cyberman said:
I would.
He hangs onto the ball a bit too long for me. A top striker would throttle him when he slows down an attack as he continually plays for the foul.
Its one of the main reasons he falls short in CL imo.
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I mean, of these two players only one was literally slowing the team down to the point where they were more effective without him (hint - it wasn't Hazard). I have no idea why you think Hazard slows attacks down; he's been among the best counterattacking players in the world for years now.

Teams have always been able to foul Hazard out of games since he's frequently Chelsea's only attacking conduit. It has long been a strategy of top teams to focus Hazard in the CL, which has been exacerbated by our previous managers' more pragmatic approach (see our matches against PSG under Mourinho) & the poor standard of refereeing in Europe.

Coutinho has always been a luxury player that has never had to carry a team. Aside from long-range shooting there is nothing he does better than Hazard.
 
Sayros said:
As for Mbappe, hugely premature I know, and of course Hazard has shown more over the last 8 years, Mbappe is just starting his third season. I just think time is the only reason Hazard is put ahead of him. Mbappe has shown not just in Paris, but with Monaco, and not just in Ligue 1 but in the CL, that he is going to surpass anything Hazard will do, short of a devastating injury or two./QUOTE]

Bit of a weird thing to say when Hazard won the league and cup double with Lille, was voted the youngest ligue 1 player of the year ever and is the only player tot have won two young player of the year awards. All before he was twenty. So if anything, he was every bit as promising at the same age. Mbappe's just lucky he's in a vastly more talented France/PSG team.
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Jim Beam said:
Yeah, do realize you don't rate him that highly from what I read here. But, considering you're willing to bet a house on it count that he already was 7th or 8th one year, he is entering his prime years and you can make a solid case that he is in terms of talent and ability right up there. On his day, he is really unplayable and not so system dependent like Salah for example.

Now if Madrid does make a move he will have a solid chance imo and also that club factor will suddenly became an advantage in comparison to Neymar and Mbappe. I just wouldn't bet my house on it, that's all. :)
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He would have a solid chance if only he becomes their best player and help them win serious trophies
 
BridgeBanter said:
Who does the tier that he is below consist of? If it is Messi and Ronaldo then fair enough, but if you don't think hes at the very least on the same wavelength of the Neymar's and De Bruynes, Robbens, then you actually really no nothing about football.
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Neymar is also a bit overrated but he's a tier above Hazard. I was excluding Messi and Ronaldo.

Robben at his best was superior to Hazard. Salah has eclipsed anything Hazard has done over a season last year ffs.

Neymar, Mbappe, Modric, Griezman and there is a case to be made for Bale being above Hazard.

Hazard will be put in that bracket once he turns up in Europe until then its nonsense to put him in that tier unless you have a fascination for dribbling.
 
Mark_Barca said:
Neymar is also a bit overrated but he's a tier above Hazard. I was excluding Messi and Ronaldo.

Robben at his best was superior to Hazard. Salah has eclipsed anything Hazard has done over a season last year ffs.
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Is this one of those things where you prioritize personal accolades over helping the team win trophies? Hazard has been essential to every one of Chelsea's league titles since he joined , often coming out on top of the purported favorites. Salah's oh so wonderful season saw a grand total of zero trophies. Hazards less than stellar season last year still saw the FA Cup handed over to them.

Hazard has also come out and said he doesn't prioritize scoring and prefers setting the team up. I think that was a naive but also great attitude..some sweet spot in between and it's gold
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I mean, of these two players only one was literally slowing the team down to the point where they were more effective without him (hint - it wasn't Hazard). I have no idea why you think Hazard slows attacks down; he's been among the best counterattacking players in the world for years now.

Teams have always been able to foul Hazard out of games since he's frequently Chelsea's only attacking conduit. It has long been a strategy of top teams to focus Hazard in the CL, which has been exacerbated by our previous managers' more pragmatic approach (see our matches against PSG under Mourinho) & the poor standard of refereeing in Europe.

Coutinho has always been a luxury player that has never had to carry a team. Aside from long-range shooting there is nothing he does better than Hazard.
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Not for me. He needs to keep the ball moving a bit quicker until he gets in around the box. He simply hangs onto it for a bit too long while dribbling deeper than he should.
When I close my eyes and imagine Ronaldo / Giggs etc dribbling its taking on the fullback time and time again. I honestly can't remember seeing them using their skills to constantly draw fouls 40 yards from goal as I can picture from Hazard. He can't switch the play, he can't really play intricate passing so when he sees blind alley type situations he simply plays for the foul.
He's a great player, don't get me wrong but has a striker ever consistently scored goals in his "On" seasons?
Its why I don't think he would be a hit with a star striker that he would have to feed
 
giorno said:
It's abundantly clear that real madrid don't rate him anywhere near Neymar or Mbappé.

Coutinho was indeed better than Hazard last season

Hazard needs to do it in CL to be comparable to Neymar

His WC was good, but nothing special, not some all time performance that will be remembered 20 years from now, like say James in 2014
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This!!
 
Sterling Archer said:
Is this one of those things where you prioritize personal accolades over helping the team win trophies? Hazard has been essential to every one of Chelsea's league titles since he joined , often coming out on top of the purported favorites. Salah's oh so wonderful season saw a grand total of zero trophies. Hazards less than stellar season last year still saw the FA Cup handed over to them.

Hazard has also come out and said he doesn't prioritize scoring and prefers setting the team up. I think that was a naive but also great attitude..some sweet spot in between and it's gold
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Second part is a complete myth.

So should we say Darren Fletcher > Steven Gerrard due to trophies? Behave!
 
Hazard is a grossly misunderstood player in terms of he brings to the table.

I think when he leaves the game there will be a void because there isn’t anyone who plays like him. Sure there are guys who can dribble past others and can perform tricks, but his style and flair are unparalleled.

I think he’s also suffered from not having top class teammates.

He’s also suffered from having played in an era of Messi and Ronaldo and the goal obsession era.

He’s certainly flawed and he’s hard to categorize because he does so many things.

I wonder what people would think of him had he signed with United from Lille.

I think the World Cup seemed to give him massive confidence and he seems to have a bigger presence on the pitch and has gotten comfortable with the idea that he’s the guy.
 
Sayros said:
I think the next tier of attacking players after Messi and CR7 is Neymar, Mbappe, and probably Coutinho as well. Hazard is just below that. I can't put Hazard on the same level as Neymar, who has produced seasons Hazard couldn't touch with a 10-foot pole. Same with Mbappe, while he's young, has already shown to be much more effective not just in Ligue 1 (which they both played in), but also completely dwarfs him in the Champion's league playing with two different teams so far in his first two professional seasons.

Hazard is a bit overrated, simply because he still hasn't found a way to be consistently great, no matter the stage or opposition.
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Disagree completely. No way Hazard is below Neymar, Mbappe and Coutinho. Particularly the latter.
 
I think a big reason (other than the obvious mega money it would cost) that Real Madrid haven't gone super hard at Hazard is his personality. He's a quiet, humble "nice guy." He's not self centered and flamboyant off the pitch like Neymar. He's not the new flashy "it" guy like Mbappe. He doesn't have crazy hair styles and isn't super outspoken on social media like Pogba.

If he was that sort he'd perhaps be in Madrid already.
 
NikkiCFC said:
Best player ever in PL after Ronaldo.
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I love Hazard but this is a joke. While I think he is equally talented, if not more, Hazard still has a long way to go before he can surpass Henry's legacy and achievements in the EPL. He certainly is capable of doing so I might add.
 
Orc said:
I think a big reason (other than the obvious mega money it would cost) that Real Madrid haven't gone super hard at Hazard is his personality. He's a quiet, humble "nice guy." He's not self centered and flamboyant off the pitch like Neymar. He's not the new flashy "it" guy like Mbappe. He doesn't have crazy hair styles and isn't super outspoken on social media like Pogba.

If he was that sort he'd perhaps be in Madrid already.
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Don’t think it has anything to do with that. He isn’t some meek docile footballer even if he isn’t super flamboyant.
 
AllezLesDiables said:
Hazard is a grossly misunderstood player in terms of he brings to the table.

I think when he leaves the game there will be a void because there isn’t anyone who plays like him. Sure there are guys who can dribble past others and can perform tricks, but his style and flair are unparalleled.
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I agree that he is misunderstood. People always compare him to the likes of Cristiano and Neymar and wonder why he does not score like them but, with Eden the obvious player comparison for him has always been Ribery.
 
Best player at the world cup. Best player currently in the premier league. I dont watch other leagues but is he second best player in the world?
 
Keeps It tidy said:
I agree that he is misunderstood. People always compare him to the likes of Cristiano and Neymar and wonder why he does not score like them but, with Eden the obvious player comparison for him has always been Ribery.
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Yup. Or to some degree nedved. He is a playmaker from the wing.
He is fantastic and whenever he doesn't perform, Chelsea are struggling because players like morata, giroud, willian, Pedro&co are not top players. They are okay and a useful support-cast, but not players who'll do it on their own consistently for a top team. Since mata left, Diego Costa has been the only other quality attacker, but he didn't get along with the manager. The fact that Chelsea won various titles during this time is testament to Hazard's quality.
 
Hazard being top quality and arguably the best player in the prem really isnt a debate right now. How can no one see that? Its not a one off, he has been (for the majority) brilliant since day one. We're talking 6-7 yrs now. His PFA awards say enough.

If Hazard became available in Jan, regardless of fee, every one of the clubs people here support, would be bidding for him and if you signed him, you'd be delighted.
 
Mark_Barca said:
Second part is a complete myth.

So should we say Darren Fletcher > Steven Gerrard due to trophies? Behave!
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That's not an apt comparison. You should be asking Lampard > Gerrard?

And that is a debate. But as you phrased it before, who has accomplished more for his club? Lampard. Easiky
 
NikkiCFC said:
Best player ever in PL after Ronaldo.
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Ronaldo is not the best player ever in the PL. He's the greatest player to have happened to play in the PL at some point in his career. I say this because his legacy is largely made elsewhere.
 
AllezLesDiables said:
Hazard is a grossly misunderstood player in terms of he brings to the table.

I think when he leaves the game there will be a void because there isn’t anyone who plays like him. Sure there are guys who can dribble past others and can perform tricks, but his style and flair are unparalleled.

I think he’s also suffered from not having top class teammates.

He’s also suffered from having played in an era of Messi and Ronaldo and the goal obsession era.

He’s certainly flawed and he’s hard to categorize because he does so many things.

I wonder what people would think of him had he signed with United from Lille.

I think the World Cup seemed to give him massive confidence and he seems to have a bigger presence on the pitch and has gotten comfortable with the idea that he’s the guy.
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Agree he's better than Neymar and to be honest on par with Ronaldo and Messi, I think people will realise this season those two aren't far off the rest like they used to be, in fact the likes of Salah Hazard Neymar are a whisker away from themI believe.
 
Pagh Wraith said:
Disagree completely. No way Hazard is below Neymar, Mbappe and Coutinho. Particularly the latter.
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The odd one out here is Mbappe, he hasn't actually had an incredible club season yet, not by the players he's being compared to standards.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Agree he's better than Neymar and to be honest on par with Ronaldo and Messi, I think people will realise this season those two aren't far off the rest like they used to be, in fact the likes of Salah Hazard Neymar are a whisker away from themI believe.
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I think that’s true now. Obviously in the past though they were a world apart. I still wouldn’t put Salah in there though until he’s given more than one amazing season.
 
Orc said:
I think a big reason (other than the obvious mega money it would cost) that Real Madrid haven't gone super hard at Hazard is his personality. He's a quiet, humble "nice guy." He's not self centered and flamboyant off the pitch like Neymar. He's not the new flashy "it" guy like Mbappe. He doesn't have crazy hair styles and isn't super outspoken on social media like Pogba.

If he was that sort he'd perhaps be in Madrid already.
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Nope. He simply hasn't been special enough to warrant the price he'd cost. Neymar has been as good as Messi/Cristiano at various points over the last 4 years, and has the CL performances to back it up. What's Hazard done in CL?

As for Mbappé, well, he's going to be the defining player of the next decade. And might already be about to become the best in the world...

If you look outside of english football, Hazard never had a defining performance. Great player that he is, he has yet to show he can be the best player on a true CL contender. Whether his fault or not, you just don't pay neymar money for a guy who's been repeatedly outdone by lesser names in big CL knockout clashes. You don't pay that kind of money for a guy who's never looked the part on the biggest stages
 
giorno said:
Nope. He simply hasn't been special enough to warrant the price he'd cost. Neymar has been as good as Messi/Cristiano at various points over the last 4 years, and has the CL performances to back it up. What's Hazard done in CL?

As for Mbappé, well, he's going to be the defining player of the next decade. And might already be about to become the best in the world...

If you look outside of english football, Hazard never had a defining performance. Great player that he is, he has yet to show he can be the best player on a true CL contender. Whether his fault or not, you just don't pay neymar money for a guy who's been repeatedly outdone by lesser names in big CL knockout clashes. You don't pay that kind of money for a guy who's never looked the part on the biggest stages
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Part of that is because he wasn't able to enjoy/express himself on the pitch under the reign of Mourinho and Conte. It's not rocket science figuring out why he's seemingly back to his best under Sarri.

How are you able to shine if your manager asks you to set up like they did at the Bridge in that one fecking game against Atlético, I'll never forget that. Disgusting, negative, everything that went against his nature as a footballer.

I agree though that he's not worth more than £200m or anything. Probably closer to Coutinho money than Mbappé/Neymar money.
 
RobinLFC said:
Part of that is because he wasn't able to enjoy/express himself on the pitch under the reign of Mourinho and Conte. It's not rocket science figuring out why he's seemingly back to his best under Sarri.
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Yeah, as i mentioned, that's besides the point. Salah and Mbappé already have better resumes in CL. As does Julian fecking Draxler.

Ibra has been a cautionary tale on this matter i think
 
giorno said:
Nope. He simply hasn't been special enough to warrant the price he'd cost. Neymar has been as good as Messi/Cristiano at various points over the last 4 years, and has the CL performances to back it up. What's Hazard done in CL?

As for Mbappé, well, he's going to be the defining player of the next decade. And might already be about to become the best in the world...

If you look outside of english football, Hazard never had a defining performance. Great player that he is, he has yet to show he can be the best player on a true CL contender. Whether his fault or not, you just don't pay neymar money for a guy who's been repeatedly outdone by lesser names in big CL knockout clashes. You don't pay that kind of money for a guy who's never looked the part on the biggest stages
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We just discounting the fantastic World Cup he just had? I'd say that's a bigger stage than the CL.
 
giorno said:
Nope. He simply hasn't been special enough to warrant the price he'd cost. Neymar has been as good as Messi/Cristiano at various points over the last 4 years, and has the CL performances to back it up. What's Hazard done in CL?

As for Mbappé, well, he's going to be the defining player of the next decade. And might already be about to become the best in the world...

If you look outside of english football, Hazard never had a defining performance. Great player that he is, he has yet to show he can be the best player on a true CL contender. Whether his fault or not, you just don't pay neymar money for a guy who's been repeatedly outdone by lesser names in big CL knockout clashes. You don't pay that kind of money for a guy who's never looked the part on the biggest stages
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Mbappe hasn't had a top class Individual club season, Hazard has, he has been performing intertnationally as well, had a much much better world than Neymar had or ever has. You pay Neymar money for a guy who was the best player in the World Cup, most definitely.
 
BridgeBanter said:
I love Hazard but this is a joke. While I think he is equally talented, if not more, Hazard still has a long way to go before he can surpass Henry's legacy and achievements in the EPL. He certainly is capable of doing so I might add.
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I am not speaking about legacy and achievements. If we speak about that then he is not in top50 and Ronaldo not in top10. I just think they are best players who ever played in PL.
 
Orc said:
We just discounting the fantastic World Cup he just had? I'd say that's a bigger stage than the CL.
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Fantastic World Cup? When? He was good, but fantastic is something else. James in 2014 was fantastic. Hazard wasn't even Belgium's best player against Brazil, Mbappé was clearly better than him in the SF...

He was great against the likes of Tunisia, in the second half against Panama and for 20 minutes against Japan.

People aren't going to single out his performances in Russia 20 years from now. Nobody was even doing that during or right after the WC for that matter
 
Righteous Steps said:
Mbappe hasn't had a top class Individual club season, Hazard has, he has been performing intertnationally as well, had a much much better world than Neymar had or ever has. You pay Neymar money for a guy who was the best player in the World Cup, most definitely.
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The WC was his first good tournament for Belgium, and it was just that, good. Mbappé hasn't had a full club season as good as Hazard's sure. He's also had about 1 and 1/2 seasons as a pro so far though. And that 1/2 season was at least as good as anything Hazard's ever done, possibly better given he did it in CL as well. He was also the best player on the pitch the one time he and Hazard played in the same game

*You* might believe Hazard is worth Neymar money. I don't. But more to the point being discussed, real madrid certainly don't. And it's not because of his personality off the pitch
 
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