Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"

[kaiser1]

As a German it is no surprise you are practical. These people have diminished the importance of attacking output and no longer care about goals nor assists as if this doesn't win matches. Firmino is overrated and Salah is clearly the best player who scores the most.

The most important thing in football is sticking the ball into the net and preventing a goal conceded. Dribbles, possession, tactics are all ways of achieving those 2 goals which is scoring and preventing goals. They cannot be more important than the end goal

 

[Dancfc]

The most import thing in football is sticking the ball into the net and preventing a goal conceded.

And that's exactly what leads to the likes of Lukaku, Dele Alli and Wan Bissaka being considered top class.

I mean, didn't Heyhknes for you guys drop a goal a game Mario Gomez for a goal in two Mandzukic? Result, trophyless to treble winners, your fanbase as much as any should know it goes beyond stat padding.

 

[Stacks]

You said he's "almost always THE KEY PLAYER". That wasn't the case for 3/4 of his title wins.

There are plenty of title campaigns where the leading scorer isn't the key player. Was Ilkay Gundogan the key player for City winning the league last year? Of course not. Was Lukaku the key player for Inter? Evidently not as they haven't skipped a beat without him. Costa was the missing piece that took us from a good side to an elite side - but he was never our most important player.

Hazard couldn't win after Costa left because City went to another level with Pep and Liverpool did as well with Klopp. Also you are giving Costa a ridiculous amount of credit - arguably Diego Godin was just as important for that Atleti team in 13/14. And furthermore it's pretty evident that Simeone is the real engine driving Atleti - it's not like they fell off a cliff once Costa left.

he was though. you seem to be hating. In 2015 Diego would score his first shot of the game and put Chelsea ahead and make oppositions have to chase the game. In 2014 he made the CL Team of the Season and scored 27 league goals! Gundogan only scored 13 in the league and 4 in Europe so goals much more spread. Costa scored 20+ league goals every title winning campaign which is key to any title winning team in most cases. I wasn't even taking penalties as Hazard was taking those. Costa scored 1 pen in 2015, 5 in la liga in 2014, and 1 in 2017, so you have a striker who scores over 20 non penalty league goals every season and he isn't the key player? madness. His ability to hold up the ball and rough up defenders is Drogba like

Am I right in assuming you rated Lampard above Iniesta, Xavi, Zidane and Scholes on that basis?

above Scholes yeah but not Iniesta, Xavi or Zidane. Those guys actually had solid numbers especially assist wise

You do know football is more than just goals and assists right? I mean its pointless having this debate with you tbh. Ronaldinho was 10x the player Neymar ever was.

How do you win a game of football. what does it say in the rulebook? Please get it out and tell me. Its the number one rule in the game. Literally number one important action. If you do not score more goals than your opposition (put the ball in the net) you do not win the game. If you don't do this consistently you are relying on penalties to win the tournament.

Hazard had healthy goal and assist numbers, and the figures dip in 15/16 when Chelsea unravelled under Mourinho and he played through pain in his hip and therefore did not play as well - what of it?



Individuals need to contribute to the success of their team. Obviously you need to score goals in football. Teams, that is - teams need to score goals. Passing? Passing is all about scoring goals too. Of course attackers will score and assist - what arbitrary total do they need to reach in order to be 'putting up numbers'?

Again, the players who score or assist a given goal are not necessarily the biggest contributors to that goal. And again, a player having a higher number of goals and assists than another does not automatically mean he is the superior player, or the better performer over the period of time that he has gained those numbers.

Every team fails to win the game if they don't stick the ball into the net? And attacking players generally tend to generate the highest transfer fees not exclusively goalscorers.

True

The most import thing in football is sticking the ball into the net and preventing a goal conceded. Dribbles, possession, tactics are all ways of achieving those 2 goals which is scoring and preventing goals. They cannot be more important than the end goal

yep

 

[sherrinford]

True

Is this not also true:

Again, the players who score or assist a given goal are not necessarily the biggest contributors to that goal. And again, a player having a higher number of goals and assists than another does not automatically mean he is the superior player, or the better performer over the period of time that he has gained those numbers.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

he was though. you seem to be hating. In 2015 Diego would score his first shot of the game and put Chelsea ahead and make oppositions have to chase the game. In 2014 he made the CL Team of the Season and scored 27 league goals! Gundogan only scored 13 in the league and 4 in Europe so goals much more spread. Costa scored 20+ league goals every title winning campaign which is key to any title winning team in most cases. I wasn't even taking penalties as Hazard was taking those. Costa scored 1 pen in 2015, 5 in la liga in 2014, and 1 in 2017, so you have a striker who scores over 20 non penalty league goals every season and he isn't the key player? madness. His ability to hold up the ball and rough up defenders is Drogba like

Why would I hate on my own player? I adored Costa. It's simple fact that he wasn't the key player in either title win at Chelsea - Hazard won PotY in 14/15 and Kante won it (though Hazard should have) in 16/17. This is not a controversial position in the slightest among Chelsea fans.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

I'm talking big titles buddy. Don't care if you won in Greece or wherever Lille is.

Lille is in the excact same place Neymar has spent most of his prime in, the one you argue is better than Ronaldinho ever was.

Hazard dragging Lille to a title is more impressive than anything Neymar will ever do in France

 

[jakko]

I remember in 2017 we drew with Liverpool away 1-1, Salah scored. Yet Hazard was the best player on the pitch by a country mile even tough he didn't score or assist.
Klopp after the game described him as wow and Liverpool needed 3 players to try and stop him.
But i forgot Hazard only performs agains't the smaller teams and you cant play well in a match without scoring or assisting.

 

[Stacks]

Why would I hate on my own player? I adored Costa. It's simple fact that he wasn't the key player in either title win at Chelsea - Hazard won PotY in 14/15 and Kante won it (though Hazard should have) in 16/17. This is not a controversial position in the slightest among Chelsea fans.

so admittedly the PFA awards are unreliable as you mentioned that they got it wrong 2nd time so why not 1st? Hazard got the media plaudits as Costa is a despicable character. Hazard is easier on the eye and more of a media darling. Players of Costa style rarely win the award. Drogba never won it for example. The league likes to wax lyrical over silky glider players but the roughouse forwards get hoed. Costa was the real MVP. in 2017 Hazard only bagged 5 assists. For a creative player that's awful. coming like a glorified Hleb

 

[jakko]

so admittedly the PFA awards are unreliable as you mentioned that they got it wrong 2nd time so why not 1st? Hazard got the media plaudits as Costa is a despicable character. Hazard is easier on the eye and more of a media darling. Players of Costa style rarely win the award. Drogba never won it for example. The league likes to wax lyrical over silky glider players but the roughouse forwards get hoed. Costa was the real MVP. in 2017 Hazard only bagged 5 assists. For a creative player that's awful. coming like a glorified Hleb

Hazard won it because he was the best player in the league that season. The Chelsea fans also voted him the clubs player of the season, nothing to do with being a media darling.
The year Kante won it Hazard finished second. So it wasn't like Hazard wasn't even on the list, You could argue that Kante is a media darling and thats what helped him win it. Again Hazard won the supporters player of the season that year so that shows we thought Hazard had a better season than Kante.
Drogba & Costa never won it because they never deserved too, its not that deep. You dont like Hazard so anything he wins or does well you have to try and minimise it.

 

[Stacks]

Hazard won it because he was the best player in the league that season. The Chelsea fans also voted him the clubs player of the season, nothing to do with being a media darling.
The year Kante won it Hazard finished second. So it wasn't like Hazard wasn't even on the list, You could argue that Kante is a media darling and thats what helped him win it. Again Hazard won the supporters player of the season that year so that shows we thought Hazard had a better season than Kante.
Drogba & Costa never won it because they never deserved too, its not that deep. You dont like Hazard so anything he wins or does well you have to try and minimise it.

I meant as a nation we have a fancy for tricky continental players, since they differ to our domestic archetype e.g. Zola was a bit overrated too. I don't dislike Hazard. Just think he isn't the don people think and isn't productive enough. They used to say "he's up there with Messi and Ronaldo" and I'd spit out my supermalt. I felt Alexis was better than him in his pomp. He is good at dribbling and getting fouled. As a playmaker he was overrated. 54 league assists in 245 matches = 1 in 5. 67 big chances made. Basically glorified Hleb

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I meant as a nation we have a fancy for tricky continental players, since they differ to our domestic archetype e.g. Zola was a bit overrated too. I don't dislike Hazard. Just think he isn't the don people think and isn't productive enough. They used to say "he's up there with Messi and Ronaldo" and I'd spit out my supermalt. I felt Alexis was better than him in his pomp. He is good at dribbling and getting fouled. As a playmaker he was overrated. 54 league assists in 245 matches = 1 in 5. 67 big chances made. Basically glorified Hleb

Glorified Hleb is nonsense, being good at dribbling is massive in football in how it changes how the other team plays against you. It opens up a game out of nowhere, as Hazard did countless times against us and other teams that don’t always show up in the stats. This isn’t just showy dribbling too, he was a decisive dribbler and one of the best I’ve seen in modern times.

Just watch a team with nobody able to dribble and you’ll watch a team with predictive football a lot of the time. A good dribbler goes beyond stats and there’s a reason they’re so wanted and cherished in football teams.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

so admittedly the PFA awards are unreliable as you mentioned that they got it wrong 2nd time so why not 1st? Hazard got the media plaudits as Costa is a despicable character. Hazard is easier on the eye and more of a media darling. Players of Costa style rarely win the award. Drogba never won it for example. The league likes to wax lyrical over silky glider players but the roughouse forwards get hoed. Costa was the real MVP. in 2017 Hazard only bagged 5 assists. For a creative player that's awful. coming like a glorified Hleb

Now you're just WUMming. Hazard only having 5 assists is far more down to the players around him - he averaged basically 2.5 key passes per game for Chelsea despite taking zero set pieces.

Also if Costa was the real MVP as you say, why did Chelsea fall off a cliff in 15/16 when he was fit but Hazard wasn't? Surely the real MVP could have done far better if he was actually our best and most important player.

 

[Stacks]

Now you're just WUMming. Hazard only having 5 assists is far more down to the players around him - he averaged basically 2.5 key passes per game for Chelsea despite taking zero set pieces.

Also if Costa was the real MVP as you say, why did Chelsea fall off a cliff in 15/16 when he was fit but Hazard wasn't? Surely the real MVP could have done far better if he was actually our best and most important player.

Hazard played more games than Costa though

 

[Stacks]

Glorified Hleb is nonsense, being good at dribbling is massive in football in how it changes how the other team plays against you. It opens up a game out of nowhere, as Hazard did countless times against us and other teams that don’t always show up in the stats. This isn’t just showy dribbling too, he was a decisive dribbler and one of the best I’ve seen in modern times.

Just watch a team with nobody able to dribble and you’ll watch a team with predictive football a lot of the time. A good dribbler goes beyond stats and there’s a reason they’re so wanted and cherished in football teams.

saw him running into corners a lot and down blind alleys only to win a FK. Bit like Grealish. This what y'all like nowadays? Giggs was a decisive runner as he was going somewhere and stayed on his feet.

 

[Righteous Steps]

saw him running into corners a lot and down blind alleys only to win a FK. Bit like Grealish. This what y'all like nowadays? Giggs was a decisive runner as he was going somewhere and stayed on his feet.

You’re wrong here Hazard at his best could do it all, and his best seasons in this league are probably better than Giggs who undoubtedly had a better career overall though.

Hazard played in defensive systems for the majority of his Chelsea career where he had to be the best playmaker, best dribbler and secondary goal scorer all in one, replace him with a less involved player who scored more goals and the results are not the same.

Yes goals are the most important thing in football but the game is also a bit more nuanced than that, Hazard was a total footballer with no weaknesses, his biggest probably being his mentality and desire to accept not even trying to be on the level of greats like Messi and Ronaldo.

I would have Neymar slightly above him for that reason, but Hazard could do most things you look for in an attacker plus to be frank was more of a wide midfielder playmaker than an out and out forward, it’s just different roles really.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Hazard played more games than Costa though

He didn't though? Costa played 27 in the league and Hazard played 25. Costa played an extra match in the CL that year. He played about 400 more minutes than Hazard did, and Hazard was half fit for most of the season because Mourinho forced him to play through a hip injury.

As usual you are just plain incorrect here?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

You’re wrong here Hazard at his best could do it all, and his best seasons in this league are probably better than Giggs who undoubtedly had a better career overall though.

Hazard played in defensive systems for the majority of his Chelsea career where he had to be the best playmaker, best dribbler and secondary goal scorer all in one, replace him with a less involved player who scored more goals and the results are not the same.

Yes goals are the most important thing in football but the game is also a bit more nuanced than that, Hazard was a total footballer with no weaknesses, his biggest probably being his mentality and desire to accept not even trying to be on the level of greats like Messi and Ronaldo.

I would have Neymar slightly above him for that reason, but Hazard could do most things you look for in an attacker plus to be frank was more of a wide midfielder playmaker than an out and out forward, it’s just different roles really.

Yeah Hazard at his best is more like Figo or Ribery than he was Salah or Ronaldo. Ribery nearly won the Ballon d'Or despite having a worse goal per game record than Hazard.

 

[Stacks]

You’re wrong here Hazard at his best could do it all, and his best seasons in this league are probably better than Giggs who undoubtedly had a better career overall though.

Hazard played in defensive systems for the majority of his Chelsea career where he had to be the best playmaker, best dribbler and secondary goal scorer all in one, replace him with a less involved player who scored more goals and the results are not the same.

Yes goals are the most important thing in football but the game is also a bit more nuanced than that, Hazard was a total footballer with no weaknesses, his biggest probably being his mentality and desire to accept not even trying to be on the level of greats like Messi and Ronaldo.

I would have Neymar slightly above him for that reason, but Hazard could do most things you look for in an attacker plus to be frank was more of a wide midfielder playmaker than an out and out forward, it’s just different roles really.

He has very limited success as a player due in part to his limitations. No CL success. If he could score more maybe Belgium would have won something and not get dumped out by Wales in the Euros How they get on in the last Euros too? The golden era of golden flops and hype men. Oh and dribblers

 

[NewYorkRed]

he was though. you seem to be hating. In 2015 Diego would score his first shot of the game and put Chelsea ahead and make oppositions have to chase the game. In 2014 he made the CL Team of the Season and scored 27 league goals! Gundogan only scored 13 in the league and 4 in Europe so goals much more spread. Costa scored 20+ league goals every title winning campaign which is key to any title winning team in most cases. I wasn't even taking penalties as Hazard was taking those. Costa scored 1 pen in 2015, 5 in la liga in 2014, and 1 in 2017, so you have a striker who scores over 20 non penalty league goals every season and he isn't the key player? madness. His ability to hold up the ball and rough up defenders is Drogba like

above Scholes yeah but not Iniesta, Xavi or Zidane. Those guys actually had solid numbers especially assist wise

How do you win a game of football. what does it say in the rulebook? Please get it out and tell me. Its the number one rule in the game. Literally number one important action. If you do not score more goals than your opposition (put the ball in the net) you do not win the game. If you don't do this consistently you are relying on penalties to win the tournament.

True

yep

You know nothing about football.

 

[Stacks]

He didn't though? Costa played 27 in the league and Hazard played 25. Costa played an extra match in the CL that year. He played about 400 more minutes than Hazard did, and Hazard was half fit for most of the season because Mourinho forced him to play through a hip injury.

As usual you are just plain incorrect here?

ohhhh wow. you made it like Hazard missed the whole season injured. that was my point.

 

[Stacks]

Yeah Hazard at his best is more like Figo or Ribery than he was Salah or Ronaldo. Ribery nearly won the Ballon d'Or despite having a worse goal per game record than Hazard.

Ribery was leading assister in the CL in 2012, leading in Bundesliga in 2012 and 2013 and his team made the CL final twice in a row. He made 50 assists across those 2 years and won the CL. what Hazard do again?

You know nothing about football.

thanks!

 

[jakko]

I meant as a nation we have a fancy for tricky continental players, since they differ to our domestic archetype e.g. Zola was a bit overrated too. I don't dislike Hazard. Just think he isn't the don people think and isn't productive enough. They used to say "he's up there with Messi and Ronaldo" and I'd spit out my supermalt. I felt Alexis was better than him in his pomp. He is good at dribbling and getting fouled. As a playmaker he was overrated. 54 league assists in 245 matches = 1 in 5. 67 big chances made. Basically glorified Hleb

Why would you judge him purely on how many assists he has?. Surely him being the highest chance creator in the Premier League in his 7 seasons at Chelsea is a better way to judge his creativity?.
He played with players like Torres, Ba, 36 old Drogba, Pass it Eto'o, Falcao, Pato, Remy, Cuadrado, Schurrle, Willian, Pedro and Barkley. If Hazard played with Aguero for 7 seasons he would have more assists.
He scored over 100 goals in 7 seasons at Chelsea.

 

[Trex]

Why would you judge him purely on how many assists he has?. Surely him being the highest chance creator in the Premier League in his 7 seasons at Chelsea is a better way to judge his creativity?.
He played with players like Torres, Ba, 36 old Drogba, Pass it Eto'o, Falcao, Pato, Remy, Cuadrado, Schurrle, Willian, Pedro and Barkley. If Hazard played with Aguero for 7 seasons he would have more assists.
He scored over 100 goals in 7 seasons at Chelsea.

Hazard was as good as you'll get in terms of creativity, hard to compare him with other top winger as most of them were much better goal threats. He was clearly world class.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

ohhhh wow. you made it like Hazard missed the whole season injured. that was my point.

He wasn't fit. If he had been properly managed then he would have missed significantly more time but Mourinho was desperate to keep his job and was publicly feuding with our medical team.

Again, these are not opinions they are facts. You are trying to argue that 2+2=5 here.

 

[Stacks]

Why would you judge him purely on how many assists he has?. Surely him being the highest chance creator in the Premier League in his 7 seasons at Chelsea is a better way to judge his creativity?.
He played with players like Torres, Ba, 36 old Drogba, Pass it Eto'o, Falcao, Pato, Remy, Cuadrado, Schurrle, Willian, Pedro and Barkley. If Hazard played with Aguero for 7 seasons he would have more assists.
He scored over 100 goals in 7 seasons at Chelsea.

Proof?

So Pedro, Willian are bad players? and Diego Costa, Mata, Remy, Cesc, Batshuayi, Giroud any worse than what they have now? any worse than Mario Gomez, Olic, Mandzukic Shaquiri?

 

[Stacks]

He wasn't fit. If he had been properly managed then he would have missed significantly more time but Mourinho was desperate to keep his job and was publicly feuding with our medical team.

Again, these are not opinions they are facts. You are trying to argue that 2+2=5 here.

sounds like excuses. So what injury did he have that was season ending?

 

[Stacks]

Hazard was as good as you'll get in terms of creativity, hard to compare him with other top winger as most of them were much better goal threats. He was clearly world class.

never world class as he doesn't belong in world 11 company. He is great in the premier league and thats all. That don't make you world class.

 

[Dancfc]

sounds like excuses. So what injury did he have that was season ending?

If the words of us aren't enough, how about (his manager for half of that season) Guus Hiddink?

“I think his father has made a fair judgement,” the 69-year-old Dutchman said.

“He is not absent of injury. It’s an injury with which you can play, but if you are not fully, fully fit that also has an influence on your freshness. The worries have been there, it’s true.”

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...s-hampered-his-season-says-guus-hiddink/lite/

It's truly bizarre that people are trying to argue that the injury didn't exist.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

sounds like excuses. So what injury did he have that was season ending?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ard-jsoe-mourinho-antonio-conte-a7424931.html
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/11/chelsea-eden-hazard-father-pushed-pain
https://indianexpress.com/article/s...ry-has-hampered-his-season-says-guus-hiddink/

Again, once he had time off to properly rehabilitate the injury he came back for the last month of the season and immediately was up there with the best players in the league. This is not even a matter that is open to debate.

 

[kaiser1]

Hazard was as good as you'll get in terms of creativity, hard to compare him with other top winger as most of them were much better goal threats. He was clearly world class.

He was a very good EPL player. One of the best in the last 15yrs but Very underwhelming in the CL
4 career CL goals from open play doesn't sound like stuffs from a world class attacker

 

[Hammondo]

Ribery was leading assister in the CL in 2012, leading in Bundesliga in 2012 and 2013 and his team made the CL final twice in a row. He made 50 assists across those 2 years and won the CL. what Hazard do again?

thanks!

I agree with him, you need to understand football beyond goal and assist.

 

[Stacks]

If the words of us aren't enough, how about (his manager for half of that season) Guus Hiddink?

It's truly bizarre that people are trying to argue that the injury didn't exist.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ard-jsoe-mourinho-antonio-conte-a7424931.html
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/11/chelsea-eden-hazard-father-pushed-pain
https://indianexpress.com/article/s...ry-has-hampered-his-season-says-guus-hiddink/

Again, once he had time off to properly rehabilitate the injury he came back for the last month of the season and immediately was up there with the best players in the league. This is not even a matter that is open to debate.

Making excuses to defend his player. Rashford played with injury last season and managed 21 goals and 15 assists. Plenty of players play with injury. This weak as feck

 

[Stacks]

He was a very good EPL player. One of the best in the last 15yrs but Very underwhelming in the CL
4 career CL goals from open play doesn't sound like stuffs from a world class attacker

agreed. Being great in the premier league alone does not make you world class

 

[Dancfc]

Making excuses to defend his player. Rashford played with injury last season and managed 21 goals and 15 assists. Plenty of players play with injury. This weak as feck

So Hiddink is now involved in a conspiracy, this gets better

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Making excuses to defend his player. Rashford played with injury last season and managed 21 goals and 15 assists. Plenty of players play with injury. This weak as feck

Where on earth are you getting these figures from? Are you including cups now to just make Rashford look better? Also this notion that all injuries are equivalent is probably the most hilariously misguided thing you've posted in this thread, which is impressive in and of itself. Since football is predominantly played with one's arms a shoulder injury is obviously comparable to a hip injury; everyone knows this.

 

[Trex]

He was a very good EPL player. One of the best in the last 15yrs but Very underwhelming in the CL
4 career CL goals from open play doesn't sound like stuffs from a world class attacker

The EPL is a top top league, to be one of the best in the last 15 years then you're definitely world class, our definition of world class may differ though.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Ribery was leading assister in the CL in 2012, leading in Bundesliga in 2012 and 2013 and his team made the CL final twice in a row. He made 50 assists across those 2 years and won the CL. what Hazard do again?

thanks!

Hazard won the league twice as a key player - Salah's only won the league once, Zola, Kane never won the league

never world class as he doesn't belong in world 11 company. He is great in the premier league and thats all. That don't make you world class.

Great in the World Cup too… Silver Ball in the 2018 World Cup.

 

[Andrade]

Making excuses to defend his player. Rashford played with injury last season and managed 21 goals and 15 assists. Plenty of players play with injury. This weak as feck

I've been reading through this thread and I've noticed that you seem to boil everything down to goals and assists. It doesn't quite work like that.

A lot of people are against the eye-test because they think that it lacks objectivity. I see that argument but I don't wholly agree, I think you can learn a lot about a player by simply watching them play (and of course, there was a time when that was the only way a player was judged, outside of pure number 9s) If you watch Hazard at his best, there's no doubt that he's a brilliant player.

However, if one dismisses the eye test and uses stats, IMO you have to look at it much more deeply than just saying 'goals and assists'. Dribbles, successful dribbles, key passes, pass completion, chance creation, XG, XA etc., all these things have a bearing on how influential a player actually is. There are dozens of actions that occur on both sides to enable a goal to be scored; there's a lot more to it that just the act of the final pass and shot.

 

[Tyrion]

Its simple he scores more. Same reason Ronaldo was the most important part of BBC, Same reason Lewandowski is the best Bayern attacker, When you are part of that front 3, Your numbers matter a lot

So Salah is more important than Firminho which proves that numbers matter and we know numbers matter because Salah is more important than Firminho?

 

[Dancfc]

So Salah is more important than Firminho which proves that numbers matter and we know numbers matter because Salah is more important than Firminho?

It's not binary. Hasselbaink scored a lot more than Gudjohnsen, guess which one Jose kept after arriving at Chelsea?