Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"

[TsuWave]

You might be in a minority to what you perceive 'elegance' as in footballing terms then. Or your judgement of said players elegance is way off. Or both.



This is categorically wrong then. Doubling down on ridiculous statements doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you try.



I have no issue with this stance, pretty clear what I disagree with.



You need to expand on what you meant by 'consistently'. Consistently better at what? Individual actions? Playing at an elite level? Other than G/A's what was Neymar consistently better at?

is it a reading comprehension thing or something? Me saying Neymar is more elegant than Hazard equates to me saying Neymar is the epitome of elegance to you? You started talking about Zidane and such. Weird. Again, I do not care for what you deem elegant. Please rest.

Neymar is just better. The eye test says it. the numbers and trophies back it up. Harsh realities, but it’s something you guys just got to deal with.

Not sure why thats such a strange concept for you. Can’t be bothered to educate you, not a teacher by trade.

 

[TsuWave]

I seriously don't know how someone who has watched Neymar consistently throughout his career could have this opinion. And that's no disrespect to Hazard, who is (was?) a terrific player as I said before.

it feels like I’m in Arkham Asylum seeing people seriously trying to argue that Hazard is/was better than Neymar. Insane

 

[1905]

is it a reading comprehension thing or something?

Me saying Neymar is more elegant than Hazard equates to me saying Neymar is the epitome of elegance to you? You started talking about Zidane and such. Weird.

It appears it isn't a thing. Never suggested that he's the epitome of elegance, only that Hazard is moreso in this regard. Yes, examples of Zidane, Iniesta as they are what many would class as truly elegant players. Hazard is of the same mould, Neymar not as much (doesn't mean he isn't elegant). His attributes just lend to a different sort of player.

is it a reading comprehension thing or something?

Neymar is just better. The eye test says it. the numbers and trophies back it up. Harsh realities, but it’s something you guys just got to deal with.

? And again. Complains about 'bad faith argumentation' then does the same thing in the next reply. Fails to respond to questions explaining what he means, and continuously (intentionally) misses the point. Perhaps you're in need of a rest.

 

[sherrinford]

No to your entire first paragraph.

I mean, you’re trying to talk about decision making when Neymar does/did Hazard numbers in half of the time. and no, it’s not just stats, Neymar does everything Hazard does, just better and more elegantly, consistently, and makes it look piss easy too.

Hazard is not similarly talented when it comes to Neymar. Neymar is clear. Hazard is at least a tier below Neymar, and I don’t know why you’d even mention Ronaldinho as an example of a player that’s clear of Hazard, trying to legitimise this Hazard and Neymar are close/similarly talented nonsense.

This has to be an extreme case of premier league bias. Insane, really.

Why would Neymar matching Hazard's goal and assist tallies indicate that his decision-making was as good?

Surely no-one can say Neymar was a more rational player than Hazard with a straight face? I don't know how anyone could have watched the two and think Neymar was more elegant or more consistent either. I used Ronaldinho for comparison as he was also a flawed decision-maker yet I believe he was a better player than Hazard, unlike Neymar.

Why would I have a Premier League bias? I've probably watched more of Barcelona over the years than Man United, and more La Liga than the English league...

 

[Sayros]

Why would Neymar matching Hazard's goal and assist tallies indicate that his decision-making was as good?

Surely no-one can say Neymar was a more rational player than Hazard with a straight face? I don't know how anyone could have watched the two and think Neymar was more elegant or more consistent either. I used Ronaldinho for comparison as he was also a flawed decision-maker yet I believe he was a better player than Hazard, unlike Neymar.

Why would I have a Premier League bias? I've probably watched more of Barcelona over the years than Man United, and more La Liga than the English league...

Neymar is better than Hazard, or Ronaldinho for that matter. Injuries aside, his production is about as good as it gets outside of this season. They're both great players, but there's levels to this game and Neymar is on a superior one to Hazard, you'll fight a lonely battle trying to argue otherwise. Elegance aside, it's not even really a debate between the two.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Neymar is better than Hazard, or Ronaldinho for that matter. Injuries aside, his production is about as good as it gets outside of this season. They're both great players, but there's levels to this game and Neymar is on a superior one to Hazard, you'll fight a lonely battle trying to argue otherwise. Elegance aside, it's not even really a debate between the two.

Neymar is absolutely not as good as Ronaldinho. If you want to argue that he's had a better career then that's one thing, but Ronaldinho was 100% the better and more influential footballer.

 

[SirReginald]

Exactly! He really hasn't stepped up when it matters in CL/Int knockout rounds. There's a reason players like Ziyech have scored more goals than him in CL and even a player like Nkunku is only one goal behind. He's a known chocker but the stubborn fans won't admit it.

Hazard played well in the PL when the PL teams were struggling in CL(only one semi-final appearance between 13-17) which also indicates the level of the league which was kind of fodder status really.

Surely not.. a Milan fan cannot be talking about the quality and competitiveness of the English league. Juventus only began competing after completely breaking their budget and have now had to scale back as a result.

As for Neymar vs Hazard? Both were great. Both are now declining, both have bad lifestyles for professional athletes. Beyond that it’s apples and oranges.

 

[1905]

Exactly! He really hasn't stepped up when it matters in CL/Int knockout rounds. There's a reason players like Ziyech have scored more goals than him in CL and even a player like Nkunku is only one goal behind. He's a known chocker but the stubborn fans won't admit it.

Hazard played well in the PL when the PL teams were struggling in CL(only one semi-final appearance between 13-17) which also indicates the level of the league which was kind of fodder status really.

Agree about the CL. But he was the best player in the 2018 World Cup and was the best player on the pitch in the Knockout matches against France & Brazil (I believe the only time they've been on the pitch at the same time?). From around 2015ish he was consistently brilliant for Belgium.

 

[Sayros]

Neymar is absolutely not as good as Ronaldinho. If you want to argue that he's had a better career then that's one thing, but Ronaldinho was 100% the better and more influential footballer.

Of course he is. I'll take the guy who is still playing world-class football (again, outside of this current season) over the guy who did it for only two seasons. I simply do not understand the pass fans give Ronaldinho for essentially being a world-class player for about two seasons.

 

[Remember the geese]

Of course he is. I'll take the guy who is still playing world-class football (again, outside of this current season) over the guy who did it for only two seasons. I simply do not understand the pass fans give Ronaldinho for essentially being a world-class player for about two seasons.

Ronaldinho was definitely better than Neymar. Longevity is a different argument completely.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Of course he is. I'll take the guy who is still playing world-class football (again, outside of this current season) over the guy who did it for only two seasons. I simply do not understand the pass fans give Ronaldinho for essentially being a world-class player for about two seasons.

I'm sorry but that's crazy. Ronaldinho hit higher peaks than Neymar ever did. And Ronaldinho was a world class player for 6-7 seasons, plus did far far more at international level than Neymar has even come close to approaching.

 

[Cassidy]

Of course he is. I'll take the guy who is still playing world-class football (again, outside of this current season) over the guy who did it for only two seasons. I simply do not understand the pass fans give Ronaldinho for essentially being a world-class player for about two seasons.

On what planet was he only world class for two seasons?

 

[Sayros]

I'm sorry but that's crazy. Ronaldinho hit higher peaks than Neymar ever did. And Ronaldinho was a world class player for 6-7 seasons, plus did far far more at international level than Neymar has even come close to approaching.

Has he? Tell me what those 6-7 world-class seasons are (good luck), in what way they're comparable to Neymar's as an individual, not as a team. For me, Dinho is put in the conversation of the greatest but he has '04-'06 to show for it. It's a pretty steep decline at that point not just in his output, but his ability to influence the game. He's had other good seasons prior and here and there after, but world-class? I'm only considering it those years he won the ballon d'or as world-class where he was the best player in the world.

His world cup was supposed to be 2006, he had an impact in '02 but at best you can argue he was the third most important player (I wouldn't). I think context matters a lot, R10 is the spark that brought Barcelona back to the top, while Neymar arrived as part of a well-oiled dominating machine.

But longetivity and overall impact and ability to influence the game at all levels for more than two seasons at a world-class level is what puts Neymar easily above R10 if I take my Joga Bonito glasses off.

 

[GifLord]

Of course he is. I'll take the guy who is still playing world-class football (again, outside of this current season) over the guy who did it for only two seasons. I simply do not understand the pass fans give Ronaldinho for essentially being a world-class player for about two seasons.

He's barely shown anything close to world class this season. He's basically been on vacation at PSG for the past few years.

 

[Sayros]

He's barely shown anything close to world class this season. He's basically been on vacation at PSG for the past few years.

No, only this season. His issues have been injuries the previous ones, but when on the field, constant impact. He's been nothing short of atrocious this season though, no debate there from me.

I also feel the fact that Ronaldinho came in when his main competition for best player in the world was an aging Zidane and Ronaldo and a constantly overlooked Henry has helped Ronaldinho stand out. Neymar came in dealing with Messi/CR7 who have completely overshadowed him and many other great players in their era.

 

[GifLord]

No, only this season. His issues have been injuries the previous ones, but when on the field, constant impact. He's been nothing short of atrocious this season though, no debate there from me.

I also feel the fact that Ronaldinho came in when his main competition for best player in the world was an aging Zidane and Ronaldo and a constantly overlooked Henry has helped Ronaldinho stand out. Neymar came in dealing with Messi/CR7 who have completely overshadowed him and many other great players in their era.

You have to be joking?
Just from Italy he had Shevchenko, Nedved, Totti, a young Kaka and Adriano.

 

[Stacks]

If we're speaking of tiers, I'd put him in the same bracket as Ronaldo, Henry, Suarez and Salah but still behind them. Bale might belong there as well. But I think it's a bit harsh on Hazard to have him a whole tier below them. He used to be one hell of a player.

He can't be on their tier as these guys were Balon D'or winners/contenders. He is never in the running and was't even voted best player in the league multiple times.

That's fair if you have them ordered in the same tier. Theoretically if I had an S tier & A tier those players I mentioned above would be in A. Just considering attacking players I think S should be reserved for those who combined talent and ruthlessness at an elite level. Those in the tier below might have world class natural talent (Hazard, Silva) but lack the ruthlessness, or put up unbelievable numbers (Salah, Aguero) but are not as talented as those previously mentioned.

Hazard was my favourite player in his time here and I would say the best in the league of his era, but for me not in the same tier as Henry/CR7/Suarez.

agreed in part but what was his era?

Im seeing some wild takes in this thread. He was not Neymar level but he was easily the MVP of the PL for at least 4 seasons straight with the exception of one.
This guy was picking the ball from the half way line and singlehandedly wrecking defenses on his own and even with poor players around him like his last two seasons. You would have to be fool to measure him by stats when teams used to devise special plans to stop him and managers in this league used to send out defenders to butcher him game after game.

Refs did not protect him from the punishment of Premier league defenders so I'm not surprised his legs went early but at his peak he did things no other PL player did or has done.

he won MVP once. Ronaldo won 3 seasons straight. Henry similar.

He wasn't better than either of them but I think there's a case to be made that no title-winning team relied as fully on a single attacking player as Chelsea did on peak Hazard.

That's a lie. Diego Costa top scoring just gonna get pushed to the side???

Peak Hazard was better than Neymar. Injuries ruined him but Eden was was a special player. Neymar for me has always underwhelmed considering how talented he was. Hazard was also a better all round player than Neymar; he had more to his game.

What is Peak Hazard? Has he had great CL seasons taboot? Was he rivalling Messi and Ronaldo like Neymar was? I can't remember those years so you have to remind me. underwhelmed? you need to look up the definition. He was 3rd best player in the world for many seasons. Hazard was never

Ugh, it’s the worst kind of football fan that boils everything down to stats. You just lose all the nuance and beauty, not to mention the considerably less tangible impacts of a player. But it’s this FIFA generation, simplistic stat obsessed folk.

Neymar has played in some ridiculously stacked teams, and pissed away half his career. He’s incredibly talented, but he’s also a cretin. I’d say he has the edge over Hazard, but Hazard was always a player I enjoyed watching much, much more. He had an elegance running with the ball that is so so rare. Tbh, if anything, I would say he wasn’t direct enough. He played for the team and often seemed more interested in the artistry of the game than driving towards goal. Neymar always played for Neymar.

Two great players. At their absolute peak, if I was putting a team together, I’d pick Hazard every time, and surround him with more direct players. That’s just personal preference, not me saying he’s better, because I don’t think he is. Just think he’s a better team player, and I enjoyed watching him much much more than I did Neymar.

Neymar gets 3 assists for every 4 goals. to say he only plays for himself is ludicrous. You just have a personal dislike of him. Hazard didn't exacly play with paupers and was also part of a stacked Belgium team and did nout but go off.

Neymar is absolutely not as good as Ronaldinho. If you want to argue that he's had a better career then that's one thing, but Ronaldinho was 100% the better and more influential footballer.

Ronaldinho was definitely better than Neymar. Longevity is a different argument completely.

Neymars best seasons actually eclipse Ronadinho's

No, only this season. His issues have been injuries the previous ones, but when on the field, constant impact. He's been nothing short of atrocious this season though, no debate there from me.

I also feel the fact that Ronaldinho came in when his main competition for best player in the world was an aging Zidane and Ronaldo and a constantly overlooked Henry has helped Ronaldinho stand out. Neymar came in dealing with Messi/CR7 who have completely overshadowed him and many other great players in their era.

Me and you argued this a few times and you showed me Neymar is comparable

 

[Zehner]

He can't be on their tier as these guys were Balon D'or winners/contenders. He is never in the running and was't even voted best player in the league multiple times.

Let's be real, Cristiano aside they were never really Ballon D'Or contenders. Perhaps closer to winning it than Hazard but still underdogs at best. Hazard was a top 3/top 5 player in the world in his prime and I think that's also true for Suarez, Henry and Salah. All of them were great but still had a bunch of players playing at the same time who were just better than them. For Suarez, Salah und Hazard those were Messi and Cristiano and for Henry Zidane, R9 and Ronaldinho.

 

[1905]

agreed in part but what was his era?

From when he joined till he left. If I remember correctly Suarez left for Barca quite early so I'm more comparing him to those who shared their best footballing years over the same time period (Aguero/Silva/Kane/Sanchez), probably forgetting some obvious ones.

 

[Wolf1992]

Ronaldinho is a better player than Neymar, no doubts about it.

He was world class since his PSG days, then he was a crucial piece of Barcelona revival, which was in a massive slump back then, and had 4 great seasons in Spain.

Neymar didn't revive anything, he joined an stacked Barcelona side, and then joined an stacked PSG side.
Plus Ligue 1 was better when Ronaldinho was there, back then PSG wasn't backed by an oil state with unlimited funds.

 

[Remember the geese]

Neymars best seasons actually eclipse Ronadinho's

Not in my heart. Which is why we all watch football.

 

[Wolf1992]

Not in my heart. Which is why we all watch football.

People are obsessed with stats, I'm sure they are putting Neymar ahead of Ronaldinho based on numbers...the most tik-tok zoomer thing ever, those people should just check SofaScore and Opta if all that matter is numbers, why bother watching the game.

People still forget that Ronaldinho was part of Barca revival, Neymar joined and stacked Barcelona, and then an stacked PSG.

 

[Stacks]

Let's be real, Cristiano aside they were never really Ballon D'Or contenders. Perhaps closer to winning it than Hazard but still underdogs at best. Hazard was a top 3/top 5 player in the world in his prime and I think that's also true for Suarez, Henry and Salah. All of them were great but still had a bunch of players playing at the same time who were just better than them. For Suarez, Salah und Hazard those were Messi and Cristiano and for Henry Zidane, R9 and Ronaldinho.

Pardon? Henry not a real contender? Many thought he was robbed. The voting has never put Hazard there and Henry was regularly challenging for world player of the year. Should have at least one. Suarez is the one who was top 5 regularly and is who Hazard wishes he was

From when he joined till he left. If I remember correctly Suarez left for Barca quite early so I'm more comparing him to those who shared their best footballing years over the same time period (Aguero/Silva/Kane/Sanchez), probably forgetting some obvious ones.

Hazard was never better than Kun

 

[NewYorkRed]

He can't be on their tier as these guys were Balon D'or winners/contenders. He is never in the running and was't even voted best player in the league multiple times.

agreed in part but what was his era?

he won MVP once. Ronaldo won 3 seasons straight. Henry similar.

That's a lie. Diego Costa top scoring just gonna get pushed to the side???

What is Peak Hazard? Has he had great CL seasons taboot? Was he rivalling Messi and Ronaldo like Neymar was? I can't remember those years so you have to remind me. underwhelmed? you need to look up the definition. He was 3rd best player in the world for many seasons. Hazard was never

Neymar gets 3 assists for every 4 goals. to say he only plays for himself is ludicrous. You just have a personal dislike of him. Hazard didn't exacly play with paupers and was also part of a stacked Belgium team and did nout but go off.



Neymars best seasons actually eclipse Ronadinho's

Me and you argued this a few times and you showed me Neymar is comparable

Anyone who thinks Neymar is better than Ronaldinho….you’re too far gone to bring back to sanity.

 

[duffer]

Suarez is the one who was top 5 regularly and is who Hazard wishes he was

You think Eden Hazard wishes he was Luis Suarez?

Good grief.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That's a lie. Diego Costa top scoring just gonna get pushed to the side???

Diego Costa was nowhere near as important as Hazard. It wasn't just finishing we relied on Hazard for; he was instrumental in every aspect of our buildup play in both 14/15 and 16/17. Pointing out that Diego Costa scored more is meaningless - the point is there hasn't been a title-winning side as dependent on a single player to be both the biggest creative fulcrum and also a vital finisher.

Neymars best seasons actually eclipse Ronadinho's

How many Ballons d'Or has Neymar won then? Statistics put up next to the best player of all time in Messi or in a crap Ligue 1 are flimsy arguments at best.

 

[MrEleson]

Diego Costa was nowhere near as important as Hazard. It wasn't just finishing we relied on Hazard for; he was instrumental in every aspect of our buildup play in both 14/15 and 16/17. Pointing out that Diego Costa scored more is meaningless - the point is there hasn't been a title-winning side as dependent on a single player to be both the biggest creative fulcrum and also a vital finisher.

I think you're downplaying Costa's impact to elevate Hazard. From what I re-call the former scored tons of pivotal goals in 16/17 that helped Chelsea narrowly win games. And most of these weren't easy finishes but half chances that only top forwards would score akin to RVP in 12/13.

 

[Dancfc]

People are obsessed with stats,

And that's exactly how the likes of Lukaku and Fernandes get labelled world class players while the likes of Hazard and Pogba get labelled "inconsistent".

 

[MrEleson]

And that's exactly how the likes of Lukaku and Fernandes get labelled world class players while the likes of Hazard and Pogba get labelled "inconsistent".

Hazard and Pogba are/were inconsistent though. One thing doesn't have to be true for the other to be false.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I think you're downplaying Costa's impact to elevate Hazard. From what I re-call the former scored tons of pivotal goals in 16/17 that helped Chelsea narrowly win games. And most of these weren't easy finishes but half chances that only top forwards would score akin to RVP in 12/13.

The first half of the season, yes. Then he had his head turned by the prospect of a massive wage hike in China and he sulked for the whole second half of the year - think he scored about 3 or 4 league goals from January onward when he was throwing a strop about his move being denied. In 14/15 Hazard got us across the line because Costa was injured; in 16/17 Hazard got us across the line because Costa was throwing his toys out of the pram.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Hazard and Pogba are/were inconsistent though. One thing doesn't have to be true for the other to be false.

Hazard was never inconsistent with Chelsea. He gets this label because of his year in 15/16 when Mourinho played him despite a hip injury. Once he was fit the last month of the year he went right back to being the world class week-in week-out performer he always had been.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Neymar is better than Hazard, or Ronaldinho for that matter. Injuries aside, his production is about as good as it gets outside of this season. They're both great players, but there's levels to this game and Neymar is on a superior one to Hazard, you'll fight a lonely battle trying to argue otherwise. Elegance aside, it's not even really a debate between the two.

Hes not better than Ronaldinho and barley better than Hazard.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Hazard and Pogba are/were inconsistent though. One thing doesn't have to be true for the other to be false.

Pogba is Hazard isn’t they shouldn’t be even put in the same conversation regarding pl performances I don’t know why the poster you quoted done so.

 

[sherrinford]

Neymar is better than Hazard, or Ronaldinho for that matter. Injuries aside, his production is about as good as it gets outside of this season. They're both great players, but there's levels to this game and Neymar is on a superior one to Hazard, you'll fight a lonely battle trying to argue otherwise. Elegance aside, it's not even really a debate between the two.

I'm certainly not compelled to change my mind based on what the general consensus is. I've formed my opinion purely from what I've seen with my own eyes. Anyway I'll have more pals than you will trying to claim Neymar is better than Ronaldinho.

They are both great players, but I think Hazard was slightly superior and I've detailed why.

 

[kaiser1]

Agree about the CL. But he was the best player in the 2018 World Cup and was the best player on the pitch in the Knockout matches against France & Brazil (I believe the only time they've been on the pitch at the same time?). From around 2015ish he was consistently brilliant for Belgium.

In both games, Hazard had Zero goals, zero assists and zero shots on target

 

[UsualSuspect]

Hazard and Pogba are/were inconsistent though. One thing doesn't have to be true for the other to be false.

I still don't know how someone who won more MOTM awards than anyone else in the league during his time here (and still reigns even if you count the last 3 years he's been gone), is still held to some narrative of inconsistency. Inconsistent goalscorer? sure. But to say that about his general performance levels is ridiculous.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

In both games, Hazard had Zero goals, zero assists and zero shots on target

And therein lies the rub with relying on statistics. There's no way you could watch those matches and think Hazard wasn't the best player on the pitch. France had to change their structure in the second half to give Pavard help because Hazard was torching him on the regular.

 

[WeePat]

Football fans pick and choose when stats are an important consideration and when they're not. It really just depends on whether they bolster ones argument.

 

[DrRodo]

I come to a hazard thread only to read that neymar is better than Ronaldinho ever was

Only on Redcafe

 

[kaiser1]

And therein lies the rub with relying on statistics. There's no way you could watch those matches and think Hazard wasn't the best player on the pitch. France had to change their structure in the second half to give Pavard help because Hazard was torching him on the regular.

Football is still an output sport, You want your attackers to be scoring assisting and getting shots on targets. That is what makes competitive football different than just playing rondo in the park with your buddies.
Which attacker is highly rated but doesnt do all these?