Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"

[Andrade]

No, he never won the "player of the season" award in La Liga. Perhaps you think he was the best player and that's fine but we're talking about fachts.

In all honesty I can't really compare the two, I've not seen nearly as much of Neymar as I have Hazard. He's obviously an incredible player but their respective clubs (for the majority of their careers) and their respective team mates are so wildly different in terms of quality that any comparison regarding stats is going to be virtually pointless. Neymar had Iniesta and Messi, Hazard had Willian and Pedro.

I'm a big admirer of both players but I'd give the edge to peak Neymar. Both super skilful and creative but I'd say Neymar is even more so and he also carries a huge goal threat. Only Messi has combined the creator and scorer roles better than Neymar in this generation.

Having said that, a lot of people are trying to denigrate Hazard in this thread and I don't get it. He was a brilliant player. The fact that it hasn't worked out at Madrid (largely due to a litany of injuries) doesn't change that fact.

 

[Gringo]

Chelsea haven’t had a player like Silva in recent times. A smooth, classy operator. The fans don’t really know how to appreciate or understand him.

Zola might be the last one they saw and the majority hadn’t heard of Chelsea FC by then.

Mata

 

[WeePat]

Mata

And Fabregas, even Deco for a brief but wonderful period. He's fishing for bites, obviously.

 

[Canagel]

Im seeing some wild takes in this thread. He was not Neymar level but he was easily the MVP of the PL for at least 4 seasons straight with the exception of one.
This guy was picking the ball from the half way line and singlehandedly wrecking defenses on his own and even with poor players around him like his last two seasons. You would have to be fool to measure him by stats when teams used to devise special plans to stop him and managers in this league used to send out defenders to butcher him game after game.

Refs did not protect him from the punishment of Premier league defenders so I'm not surprised his legs went early but at his peak he did things no other PL player did or has done.

 

[Pickle85]

Im seeing some wild takes in this thread. He was not Neymar level but he was easily the MVP of the PL for at least 4 seasons straight with the exception of one.
This guy was picking the ball from the half way line and singlehandedly wrecking defenses on his own and even with poor players around him like his last two seasons. You would have to be fool to measure him by stats when teams used to devise special plans to stop him and managers in this league used to send out defenders to butcher him game after game.

Refs did not protect him from the punishment of Premier league defenders so I'm not surprised his legs went early but at his peak he did things no other PL player did or has done.

Not Ronaldo or Henry?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Not Ronaldo or Henry?

He wasn't better than either of them but I think there's a case to be made that no title-winning team relied as fully on a single attacking player as Chelsea did on peak Hazard.

 

[sherrinford]

I didn’t even know this was a thing people actually considered. Neymar is so clear of Hazard. I don’t know how anyone could watch Neymar play and call him selfish. All he does is create chances for his teammates. Guy has 186 games for Barcelona and he scored 105 goals and has 76 assists for them

Hazard has 352 games for Chelsea and he scored 110 goals and has 92 assists for them. Nearly double the outings and barely edging in productivity. Neymar was at Barca like 4 years and Hazard at Chelsea like 7 or 8.

it looks even worse if you look at it by competition. Neymar has 41 goals and 33 assists in the CL. Hazard has 9 goals and 13 assists.

There isn’t a single metric or football aspect that I can’t think of Hazard being better at than Neymar. It just seems so insane to me.

You think Neymar was as or more logical than Hazard in his choices with a ball at his feet? You don't think he was less stable? That he lost the ball much more? Overdribbled? Forced it? Hazard was similarly talented but considerably more mature and intelligent in his play. He struck a great balance between explosive, piercing actions and more patient, sensible decisions. Neymar is direct to a fault.

An example of a player who's creativity and explosiveness was so good that he was a better overall player than Hazard despite not having the Belgian's fantastic decision-making would be Ronaldinho. Neymar's choices are more questionable and his inventiveness and dynamism pale in comparison, and is not markedly superior to Hazard's, so he doesn't quite have as positive an impact on games as Hazard did.

 

[Canagel]

Not Ronaldo or Henry?

I was talking about his era and afterwards.

 

[TsuWave]

You think Neymar was as or more logical than Hazard in his choices with a ball at his feet? You don't think he was less stable? That he lost the ball much more? Overdribbled? Forced it? Hazard was similarly talented but considerably more mature and intelligent in his play. He struck a great balance between explosive, piercing actions and more patient, sensible decisions. Neymar is direct to a fault.

An example of a player who's creativity and explosiveness was so good that he was a better overall player than Hazard despite not having the Belgian's fantastic decision-making would be Ronaldinho. Neymar's choices are more questionable and his inventiveness and dynamism pale in comparison, and is not markedly superior to Hazard's, so he doesn't quite have as positive an impact on games as Hazard did.

No to your entire first paragraph.

I mean, you’re trying to talk about decision making when Neymar does/did Hazard numbers in half of the time. and no, it’s not just stats, Neymar does everything Hazard does, just better and more elegantly, consistently, and makes it look piss easy too.

Hazard is not similarly talented when it comes to Neymar. Neymar is clear. Hazard is at least a tier below Neymar, and I don’t know why you’d even mention Ronaldinho as an example of a player that’s clear of Hazard, trying to legitimise this Hazard and Neymar are close/similarly talented nonsense.

This has to be an extreme case of premier league bias. Insane, really.

 

[1905]

Neymar does everything Hazard does, just better

eh this is not true. Hazard's ball retention was far superior to Neymar's and his dribbling in general is also better. Both statistically and eye test.

more elegantly

This is subjective. I wouldn't exactly describe Neymar as 'elegant'. Elegance is more Zidane, Hazard, Iniesta. An organised and effortless way of playing. Neymar in his prime was more explosiveness combined with trickery. Perhaps this is how you view elegance.

consistently

Hazard was the definition of consistent at Chelsea, barring one season. More often than not the best player on the pitch without even scoring or assisting. A hard thing to grasp for some. Not saying Neymar didn't do this but the idea that G/A define a performance needs to die.

and makes it look piss easy too.

Tends to be the way with top players, which they both were.

I think Neymar was better than Hazard in many aspects but to say every aspect is just nonsense.

 

[NewYorkRed]

Peak Hazard was better than Neymar. Injuries ruined him but Eden was was a special player. Neymar for me has always underwhelmed considering how talented he was. Hazard was also a better all round player than Neymar; he had more to his game.

 

[simonhch]

Ugh, it’s the worst kind of football fan that boils everything down to stats. You just lose all the nuance and beauty, not to mention the considerably less tangible impacts of a player. But it’s this FIFA generation, simplistic stat obsessed folk.

Neymar has played in some ridiculously stacked teams, and pissed away half his career. He’s incredibly talented, but he’s also a cretin. I’d say he has the edge over Hazard, but Hazard was always a player I enjoyed watching much, much more. He had an elegance running with the ball that is so so rare. Tbh, if anything, I would say he wasn’t direct enough. He played for the team and often seemed more interested in the artistry of the game than driving towards goal. Neymar always played for Neymar.

Two great players. At their absolute peak, if I was putting a team together, I’d pick Hazard every time, and surround him with more direct players. That’s just personal preference, not me saying he’s better, because I don’t think he is. Just think he’s a better team player, and I enjoyed watching him much much more than I did Neymar.

 

[TsuWave]

eh this is not true. Hazard's ball retention was far superior to Neymar's and his dribbling in general is also better. Both statistically and eye test.



This is subjective. I wouldn't exactly describe Neymar as 'elegant'. Elegance is more Zidane, Hazard, Iniesta. An organised and effortless way of playing. Neymar in his prime was more explosiveness combined with trickery. Perhaps this is how you view elegance.



Hazard was the definition of consistent at Chelsea, barring one season. More often than not the best player on the pitch without even scoring or assisting. A hard thing to grasp for some. Not saying Neymar didn't do this but the idea that G/A define a performance needs to die.



Tends to be the way with top players, which they both were.

I think Neymar was better than Hazard in many aspects but to say every aspect is just nonsense.

I don't care what you'd describe as elegant. I said Neymar does everything Hazard does, better and more elegantly.

>more elegantly than Hazard
>"Well, I think Zidane"

does that make sense to you?

Even funnier because replying to my sentences with "subjective" to then give me subjective unneeded retorts. Comical. much like the notion of Hazard being as good as Neymar, which is my position, one that you ultimately agreed with.

You read a post that contained the sentence "and no, it’s not just stats" and inserted "the idea that G/A define a performance needs to die" to try and position my posts as such. Bad faith argumentation needs to die.

Neymay > Hazard. use whatever you need to quantify it. It is what it is.

Peak Hazard was better than Neymar

we've entered the "peak" territory. another mythological figure to put right next to "peak rooney"

 

[TsuWave]

Ugh, it’s the worst kind of football fan that boils everything down to stats. You just lose all the nuance and beauty, not to mention the considerably less tangible impacts of a player. But it’s this FIFA generation, simplistic stat obsessed folk.

Neymar has played in some ridiculously stacked teams, and pissed away half his career. He’s incredibly talented, but he’s also a cretin. I’d say he has the edge over Hazard, but Hazard was always a player I enjoyed watching much, much more. He had an elegance running with the ball that is so so rare. Tbh, if anything, I would say he wasn’t direct enough. He played for the team and often seemed more interested in the artistry of the game than driving towards goal. Neymar always played for Neymar.

Two great players. At their absolute peak, if I was putting a team together, I’d pick Hazard every time, and surround him with more direct players. That’s just personal preference, not me saying he’s better, because I don’t think he is. Just think he’s a better team player, and I enjoyed watching him much much more than I did Neymar.

ah. The FIFA jibes. original.

The well has been poisoned, but you guys can't call a player selfish, especially when in comparison to another, and then turn around and discount stats like assists and/or chance creation because you prefer to talk about non-quantifiable stuff like how Hazard's bubble butt made you feel when he went on slalom runs

and let's not sit here and act like Hazard played in bad teams

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

ah. The FIFA jibes. original.

The well has been poisoned, but you guys can't call a player selfish, especially when in comparison to another, and then turn around and discount stats like assists and/or chance creation because you prefer to talk about non-quantifiable stuff like how Hazard's bubble butt made you feel when he went on slalom runs

and let's not sit here and act like Hazard played in bad teams

Neymar literally has not played a single season in Europe without at least one other top 5 player in the world in attack alongside him. Hazard never had that luxury until he got to Real Madrid with Benzema, at which point his body had given out.

Obviously there are arguments for Neymar over Hazard but let's not pretend that their situations vis a vis teammate quality were in any way shape or form comparable.

 

[Wolf1992]

Coutinho ? Griezmann ?

Griezmann delivered for Barca in some games, not what you ask for 120m, but at least he was available.

Hazard was overweight, and barely delivered.

 

[Wolf1992]

I reckon if Hazard had played in the French league I reckon he'd have won the league and also the player of the year award. I guess we'll never know.

He already won the Ligue 1 with Lille, more impressive than winning it with PSG

 

[1905]

I don't care what you'd describe as elegant.

You might be in a minority to what you perceive 'elegance' as in footballing terms then. Or your judgement of said players elegance is way off. Or both.

I said Neymar does everything Hazard does, better

This is categorically wrong then. Doubling down on ridiculous statements doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you try.

the notion of Hazard being as good as Neymar, which is my position, one that you ultimately agreed with.

I have no issue with this stance, pretty clear what I disagree with.

You read a post that contained the sentence "and no, it’s not just stats" and inserted "the idea that G/A define a performance needs to die" to try and position my posts as such. Bad faith argumentation needs to die.

You need to expand on what you meant by 'consistently'. Consistently better at what? Individual actions? Playing at an elite level? Other than G/A's what was Neymar consistently better at?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Neymar is / was obviously better than Hazard. The latter was excellent at his best but Neymar a cut above.

 

[NewYorkRed]

I don't care what you'd describe as elegant. I said Neymar does everything Hazard does, better and more elegantly.

>more elegantly than Hazard
>"Well, I think Zidane"

does that make sense to you?

Even funnier because replying to my sentences with "subjective" to then give me subjective unneeded retorts. Comical. much like the notion of Hazard being as good as Neymar, which is my position, one that you ultimately agreed with.

You read a post that contained the sentence "and no, it’s not just stats" and inserted "the idea that G/A define a performance needs to die" to try and position my posts as such. Bad faith argumentation needs to die.

Neymay > Hazard. use whatever you need to quantify it. It is what it is.



we've entered the "peak" territory. another mythological figure to put right next to "peak rooney"

Not sure why thats such a strange concept for you. Can’t be bothered to educate you, not a teacher by trade.

 

[MrEleson]

Are we comparing Hazard to the Neymar that would’ve won the Ballon D’or 2x if not for Messi & Ronaldo? (finished 3rd on the podium twice). Hazard was good but he certainly isn’t on the same level as Neymar who was utterly unplayable at his best. He could do everything Hazard could do from an empirical point of view (with added flair) and was still far more productive when it came to G/A. You can argue the strength of their respective teams and leagues subsidised this somewhat but Neymar was still generally much better for Brazil than Hazard was for Belgium where the playing field is more equal (regarding teammates) and Neymar would even face tougher opposition in qualifying.

 

[Raees]

Not much in it between Hazard and Neymar. I’d give it to the Brazilian but both special players in their prime.

Hazard was the EPL best player by a distance in a side which was carried by him quite frankly and who can forget how he would toy around with the best teams in the league single handedly.

Neymar would have done the same and I guess he edges it for me because he’s a greater goal threat and someone whose proven at the business end of major tournaments - plus I think he’s more well rounded technically.

It’s weird how players like Kaka and Ronaldinho who had major drop offs after just 3 years of peak never have their ability questioned, but guys like Neymar and Hazard, Bale who had similar periods at the top almost have their entire worth as footballers questioned just because they’re not as up for it as they used to be.

 

[GifLord]

Not much in it between Hazard and Neymar. I’d give it to the Brazilian but both special players in their prime.

Hazard was the EPL best player by a distance in a side which was carried by him quite frankly and who can forget how he would toy around with the best teams in the league single handedly.

Neymar would have done the same and I guess he edges it for me because he’s a greater goal threat and someone whose proven at the business end of major tournaments - plus I think he’s more well rounded technically.

It’s weird how players like Kaka and Ronaldinho who had major drop offs after just 3 years of peak never have their ability questioned, but guys like Neymar and Hazard, Bale who had similar periods at the top almost have their entire worth as footballers questioned just because they’re not as up for it as they used to be.

Maybe cause those 2 were doing it on the world stage? Don't remember Hazard being that good outside of the EPL where he looked like a top 3 player at times.

 

[Skills]

No, he never won the "player of the season" award in La Liga. Perhaps you think he was the best player and that's fine but we're talking about fachts.

In all honesty I can't really compare the two, I've not seen nearly as much of Neymar as I have Hazard. He's obviously an incredible player but their respective clubs (for the majority of their careers) and their respective team mates are so wildly different in terms of quality that any comparison regarding stats is going to be virtually pointless. Neymar had Iniesta and Messi, Hazard had Willian and Pedro.

Don't think Hazard would've ever worked with Iniesta or Messi.

The reason MSN was so potent was that you had Suarez & Neymar both so willing to play off the ball despite their own incredible individual skill set. Hazard needs the ball at his feet too much to work with players as ball dominant as Messi or Iniesta.

 

[jakko]

Yeah. I was right about that too. Doh

David Silva was better than Hazard.

Better at what?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Better at what?

Football.

 

[TheReligion]

Better at what?

Football.

 

[jakko]

Football.

Predictable. He's a better footballer but apart from passing doesn't beat Hazard at anything.

 

[jakko]

Hazard's numbers weren't that impressive though. He was never top tier PL player he was always a level beneath the best. Even when he won the POTY I think Sanchez had a better output than Hazard. So if the base for output isn't that important one might argue that Silva had higher importance to that City team.

But I have never seen a player as protected as Hazard by refs in any league, it was borderline crazy at times.

Hazard scored over 100 goals for Chelsea in 7 seasons, that isn't impressive?. Hazard that season was better than Sanchez thats why Hazard won the award. Hazard should of won again when Kante won it.
Silva was more important to City than Hazard was for Chelsea, Really?. Hazard last season at Chelsea he contributed to 49% of our goals, top the league in chance creation, topped assists, topped G+A combined, most take ons, and had the highest dribbling accuracy in Europe with 80% which is insane.
KDB offers more to City than David Silva did.

 

[Lynty]

Neymar > Salah > Hazard

I love Hazard and Neymar/Salah are cheating twats - but it's clear as day for anyone who's actually kicked a football.

 

[MrEleson]

Don't think Hazard would've ever worked with Iniesta or Messi.

The reason MSN was so potent was that you had Suarez & Neymar both so willing to play off the ball despite their own incredible individual skill set. Hazard needs the ball at his feet too much to work with players as ball dominant as Messi or Iniesta.

Great point. Neymar adapted to playing a different role in his first 3-4 seasons in Europe to his latter years at PSG (and former years at Santos).
In Barca’s treble winning season where he scored 40 goals in all comps, he was operating more as an inside forward in the mould of Salah and would do most of his work off the ball; leaving most of the creative duty to the likes of Messi and Iniesta because that’s what the team required of him even though for Brazil and later PSG, he took on the opposite role to be the sole creative force of the team himself. I don’t think Hazard has that sort of adaptation in him.

 

[do.ob]

It still boggles my mind that people portrait this flat track bully as some kind of great - and aggressively so - even after he's spent his prime years crippling Real.

 

[Raees]

Maybe cause those 2 were doing it on the world stage? Don't remember Hazard being that good outside of the EPL where he looked like a top 3 player at times.

Hazard did more for Belgium than Kaka ever did for Brazil?

I’m not saying Hazard and Neymar need to be rated as highly as those two but the point is more about when you judge players - you should focus on the peak, and if you want to discuss longevity then put it into context and compartmentalise it - instead we see people shitting on someone’s peak just because they’ve let themselves go - it’s two separate issues.

 

[WeePat]

It still boggles my mind that people portrait this flat track bully as some kind of great - and aggressively so - even after he's spent his prime years crippling Real.

Is this some kind of weird 'the PL is crap' argument or are you literally saying he only performed against small or bad teams?

 

[Gringo]

 

[do.ob]

Is this some kind of weird 'the PL is crap' argument or are you literally saying he only performed against small or bad teams?

I mean that in the sense that for most of his time in England the PL was at its low point, especially tactically and he didn't exactly impress in the CL either.

 

[GifLord]

Hazard did more for Belgium than Kaka ever did for Brazil?

I’m not saying Hazard and Neymar need to be rated as highly as those two but the point is more about when you judge players - you should focus on the peak, and if you want to discuss longevity then put it into context and compartmentalise it - instead we see people shitting on someone’s peak just because they’ve let themselves go - it’s two separate issues.

Yeah but what did Belgium do at the world stage? They're number 1 on FIFA rankings just because...

 

[WeePat]

I mean that in the sense that for most of his time in England the PL was at its low point, especially tactically and he didn't exactly impress in the CL either.

His record against the top 6 is pretty fantastic, whether the overall level of the league was going through a dip or not. It's fine to think he's overrated or not that great, I disagree but whatever. It seems odd to label him a flat-track bully, as he was anything but that.

 

[Andrade]

Peak Hazard was better than Neymar. Injuries ruined him but Eden was was a special player. Neymar for me has always underwhelmed considering how talented he was. Hazard was also a better all round player than Neymar; he had more to his game.

I seriously don't know how someone who has watched Neymar consistently throughout his career could have this opinion. And that's no disrespect to Hazard, who is (was?) a terrific player as I said before.

 

[Andrade]

Maybe cause those 2 were doing it on the world stage? Don't remember Hazard being that good outside of the EPL where he looked like a top 3 player at times.

Hazard was quality before he came to the PL and was also one of the best players at the 2018 World Cup.