Err no. About 90% of my stance is my opinion and reaction to things said and done specifically by Ed Woodward that are in the public domain. Straight from his mouth. No hearsay. There's no guesswork or chance for misinterpretation.
Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition
- Thread starter fallengt
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Okay, fair enough.
You know, all said I'm always open to forgiveness. If at any given moment Woodward learns from his mistakes and changes his approach in a constructive manner for United then I'll bide my calls for his head. I thought we were going to see that with the dismissal of Jose. But he then hired Ole despite putting out noise about a thorough manager search and vetting. Ok, bring in United culture. I let it pass. Then comes the summer and we were hit with yet another belabored transfer window that unfolded into sheer madness at the end with rumors of Dybala, Mandzukic and Eriksen and not least, the unprompted and unprofessional press release that we opted against Bruno because of his losing the ball...
Now we don't have to agree to believe anything that's a rumor. I just know that in a press conference Ole was pretty specific about signing a forward to replace Lukaku and Sanchez if they were to go. That was early early in the window. To then see the games with Inter for Lukaku and ultimately no forward signed on our end, Lyons president laughing at our last minute interest in public for Dembele, Lilles president also disclosing that Uniteds transfer team had enquired for Pepe and had ambitious plans for the window, it all strikes of the same old pattern that we've seen before. Out of depth. Lots of d*ck wagging. And in the end incompetence, missed targets and leaving a manager out to dry.
Lots of considered posts but we're missing the point.... all the noise around Woodward just confirms the point that he's failing.
If we were successful then these conversations wouldn't be happening.
The much fabled financial growth is saturated and slower than our peers and on-pitch performance is going arse up. It's as simple as that.
If we were successful then these conversations wouldn't be happening.
The much fabled financial growth is saturated and slower than our peers and on-pitch performance is going arse up. It's as simple as that.
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Dont think ive seen an article go in that two-footed on woodward. About time
If you remember he took awhile to even play Mkhitaryan, he handed him his debut in the 5th (I think) game of the season against City and hooked him off at half time saying that he wished he'd never started him in the post match interview. It was pretty brutal stuff. He then was kept in the reserves for a time and when people questioned why he wasn't playing Jose said he needed time to get up to speed with the physical side and speed of the premier league.
Mkitayan then had a pretty decent second half of the season and was a key player in our Europa League run but was out of favour after a few bad performances at the beginning of his second season and never got back into the side.
The reason i find the transfer strange is that Jose is pretty demanding in what he wants his wingers and number 10s to do that i can't believe that he felt Mkitaryan would be able to adapt to the English style. Jose values workrate and defensive duties and I don't think either of those are his strongest points as a player. He certainly never showed them for us or Arsenal.
Fred is a strange one too I agree.
The standard has dropped so low that people see off-loading deadwoods = progress. How is it different than an average Caf post? I mean selling the likes of Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling etc... wasn't exactly controversial topic here. If the club was well-operated, United would recycle players often.
Jose also had wanted Macguire last season but knobheads at the top decided they knew better. Then we signed Harry this season for 10m more. This shit alone should get some of them, if not all, fired.
It just highlights how badly United has been run and some people are still unconvinced it isn't Woodward's fault.
I can't believe I'm siding with DailyMail for once but if they keep pushing Woodward's stories, even fake ones, it's for better good.
Jose also had wanted Macguire last season but knobheads at the top decided they knew better. Then we signed Harry this season for 10m more. This shit alone should get some of them, if not all, fired.
It just highlights how badly United has been run and some people are still unconvinced it isn't Woodward's fault.
I can't believe I'm siding with DailyMail for once but if they keep pushing Woodward's stories, even fake ones, it's for better good.
On the contrary, he is a CEO and he has dealt with lot of people by this time. I am sure he would have learned a lot by now (come on now, 6 years is too big of a time frame for anyone to learn something).
I still think he is any managers dream. Always support as much as he can with the players manager wants. Of course he might be taking inputs from our scouts before making a call whether to wholly support the manager or not.
Trying to think this objectively.
I still think he is any managers dream. Always support as much as he can with the players manager wants. Of course he might be taking inputs from our scouts before making a call whether to wholly support the manager or not.
Trying to think this objectively.
Its the dream of every opposing fan that Woodward and ole stay on as long as possible
Difficult to argue with any of that, if only the Glazers would listen to reason.
TBH every fan should be forced to read it before being allowed to comment on Ole's record so far.
There will still be in here who won't agree. They'll still say Ed is doing everything and it's the fault of the managers. I'm still yet to read anything positive about Ed. They talk about the figures he's produced for the club but we've already seen that debunked. There's about $900m wiped off from the club's value. We've 2 points off from relegation. But for some, we should keep JUST hiring and firing managers until we hit jackpot. Have no type of plan or structure, other than keep hiring and firing managers, until we get the correct one.
This view requires a a special kind of obtuseness that is beyond my comprehension. He is clearly out of his depth managing the football side of the business and isn't the person directly responsible for building up the commercial side (Arnold is).
I was OK with him staying when I thought the plan was to have a commitee of ex players, scouts and youth/first team management staff to run the football side with the businessmen left to do the negotiating, however, given the way the summer business was conducted (why one negotiation at a time leaving no time to sign a striker at the end of the window?) the treatment of players as assets (new contracts for underperforming players and not understanding Sanchez's wage would effect every other future negotiation), the neglect (until Ole came in) of our academy and hence the weakening of the foundations of our greatness and the pathetic leaks to press trying to spin the lack of success as due to everyone else except the intentions and action of Woodward, I've come to the conclusion that Judge and Woodward need to be given their P45s, unless Woodward hires a fully fledged DoF to manage the football side of the club, with full control of hiring and firing football staff and negotaiting transfers.
The Sanchez deal was incredible stupid, but because it was too much money for a player that was over the hill.
The highlighted part of your post is a myth though. Sanchez came on a free (practically) and thus he could negotiate said wage.
To think that other players and agents dont understand what is a basic market function is letting their intelligence down. Aaron Ramsey is making more than Sanchez at Juventus for the same reason and no one is having a go at Juve.
What the Sanchez and Ramsey deals does mean for footballing Europe is that more players are starting to see out they contracts because they see the obvious economic benefits of iit.
This is a function of to much discrepancy between transfer value and players wages, not players at United looking at Sanchez and being jealous.
Its happening all over Europe. Juventus especially is a great example and they are being heralded for how they have approached the transfer market. Its the world we live in now.
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All our managers under him seem to disagree.
I understand why the club thought the wage was within budget, I also understand Juve made the same calculation with Ramsey, although the fact of the new tax regime in Italy and that he isn't their highest paid player by a long way means it isn't the same situation, Juve will find it effects their future negotations too.
I said the problem is they see players as assets because Judge and Woodward, who negotiated and OK'd the deal, simply looked at the numbers, compared it to paying a fee for a player, and said it's fine, they didn't consider the effect it would have on the other big name players in the dressing room who see themselves as the clubs leading figures and hence believe they should be the highest paid players (Sanchez's subsequent underperformance merely exacerbates the problem, it didn't create it). In addition it sets a benchmark that the agent of any top player we approach will refer to when beginning negotiations. We obviously have the right to walk away from those negotiations, but it still makes them harder.
I do not support hounding people but I make an exception for this guy. He is killing my spirit. We need to make it physically impossible for him to attend games.
I think the Ole out crowd are in so deep now they won’t change their minds but hopefully will realise the bigger problem is Woodward if they hadn’t already come to that conclusion themselves.
Get Van der Sar in as Chief Executive. He's doing the role at Ajax anyway. This move would mean we don't need the 3rd role of Director of Football. But the 3rd role could be created for Woodward to look after the commercial side and assist Van de Sar.
Whether Ole is sacked now or not that seems a good move to me.
Whether Ole is sacked now or not that seems a good move to me.
Why? (both in terms of why do you think this is probable and why is it preferable)
Van Der Sar isn't and has never been DoF at Ajax, he's said he'd be interested in doing his current role as at United, not a DoF role. IF we were to get in Van Der Sar it would have to be as a replacement for Woodward (not going to happen any time soon unfortunately) and VDS would undoubtedly appoint a DoF.
Exactly. I cheered when he was basically saying he wanted Woodward's job.
Trick him into dressing up as winnie the pooh for halloween
Ed hasn't the foggiest and it has shown. Him and Ole need to go but Ed needs to leave first. The club is just a shambles.
I don't agree that Ole needs to go, he's in no way been given a fair go yet and what he has done so far in terms of players sold/loaned, players targetted/signed, focus on youth and academy recruitment, attempted style of play changes (regardless of perceived success now we have lots of injuries) are exactly what is needed to turn the club around. Sacking Ole now is frankly idiotic.
I guess this is where we differ. Ole hasn't been handed a worse hand compared to the other managers we had. But he has proven he's out of his depth. We should not be 12th with the players we have. If we have got ridden of the deadwood and bad influences in the squad we should be performing better. Also, the injuries are on Ole too. He said he we'd be fitter after the preseason, we look even more brittle!
Im sorry to say. Your post is not objective at all. It is fantasy
1) Trying something for 6 years does not mean anyone has the capability to work at an elite level.
2) Any managers dream!? Wtf.
He sacked LVG after he won the FA Cup. LVG still criticises the club structure.
Jose wasn't backed in his final transfer window only 6 months after getting a contract extension. Maguire for example was signed 12 months later for £10m more under another manager.
Ole net spend is £65m this Summer. We've not replaced Lukaku, Herrera, Sanchez or Fellaini. You think this is Ole's dream?
This is true re: Sanchez. Signing him for free but on astronomical wages was market value. Also, in the context of City hiding wages through shell companies, also bidding for him, I can see how that happened. Plus we all thought he'd be a top player.
Doesn't excuse all of Woodwards other mistakes though. See my post above as a start.
He has been handed a worse hand than other managers. Less spend. Weaker squad. But he's still out of his depth.
Woodward out is priority number 1 though!
Still got the players he wanted and he chose to get rid of the players that he did. But yea, definitely out of his depth.
But he objectively has, Moyes took over a title winning squad. Van Gaal took over a team that finished 7th but still containing many recent title winners and was given plenty of money to spend. Mourinho took over a team that had just won the cup. Ole took over mid season a team in 6th and heading downhill fast, had been built by Mourinho to play a style of football completely opposite to what he wanted to do and had massive confidence and quality problems across all areas of the pitch.
The decisions he's made and is making are exactly what the club needs, we are 12th because we are suffering with an injury crisis and a thin squad (neither his fault, no matter how well you prepare a team injuries do happen), we have gotten rid of some (not all) of the poor performers and bad influences but haven't signed quality in their place so there are basically holes in the squad (again, if you read from plenty of sources this also isn't his fault), so how do you come to the conclusion he is clearly out of his depth, what should he done or be doing differently?
Sensibly written article. Agree with the points made. "A man's got to know his limitations" Good choice of quote to direct towards Woodward. Wish he would realise this and get in a DoF to delegate some of his workload to.
We are 12th. What more do you want me to say? He has stuck with a formation all season which has not worked whatsoever. We haven't been scoring goals. Players having muscle injuries. Looking unfit.
More than anything, where is the proof he has ever done a rebuild job? He isn't working at league 2 team, he is the manager of the most famous club in the world. With that comes the biggest pressure in the world. The managers before Ole had at least some pedigree and performed better. No coincidence
I would have thought that Woodward would have learned something after being in the job for 6 years and have had a conversation with my mate about it. But it seems that he hasn't learned a lot. His idea when it all goes wrong is that he himself is blameless and to just sack the manager, bring in a new one who may have a completely different style and start over again.
If he had learned something significant he should have learned that his methods are not working and looked at this and brought in someone/people in with more football knowledge than him to help him.
I don't agree with the part that he is any managers dream. If he was we wouldn't be in the sh!te position we are in now. He should have got in a striker to replace Lukaku and someone to replace Herrera.
Think you've misread what I wrote.
Id have VdS as Chief Exec
Give Ed a role on the commercial side but away from footballing or transfer decisions
VdS can appoint the next manager if and when required. Also he can bring his own Director of football if required. However I could see VdS not needing one if he has a good strong manager at the club.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive though.
People want Ole out because he isn’t good enough and he has the team performing like utter shit.
Removing Woodward isn’t going to suddenly transform Ole into a good manager.
Woodward needs kicking out as well, but what worries me about that situation is why haven’t the Glazers sacked him? Is it because he is doing exactly what they ask? Does this mean that If Ed goes, they replace him with Ed 2.0?
The whole club is a shambles and the root cause is the fecking parasitic owners.
Woodward is a clueless feckwit, who can't tell the difference between a football and a foot massage. He shouldn't just be fired, he should he fired, tarred and feathered, and banished from Manchester with a promise of serious pain if he ever returns, and sent back to Surrey with his tail between his legs.
Completely unrealistic.
If Woodward for some reason should leave; his replacement will be another person with a completely financial background.
As is the case in all other top-6 clubs in the PL. Like Gill was. The CEO will never be a "footballing person"; whatever that means. It will also be someone with close ties to the Glazers that they trust completely. So probably someone from the US. Like when FSG appointed Peter Moore to CEO for Liverpool. Dude is an IT-guy with a financial background for christs sake.
We are registered on the NYSE. How do you expect VdS to handle what would be his major work assignment?
I am sorry, but these are fantasies. There is no world where the CEO will not be the Glazers "henchman". Its just how it is. This idea that we could bring in a CEO that would champion the fans interests or at least be "independent" somehow is not going to happen.
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Can we do to him what the Mexicans did to that Mayor?
Well, it's not like they were flying and they got the sack. They were supported enough yet they failed to deliver.