"Easy Side of the Draw"

[Ramos]

I mean it IS the easy side of the draw. It already was before the tournament started and France messing up made it worse. You basically had Spain, Germany, Portugal and Netherlands on one side and England, Italy, France and Belgium on the other. Belgium and Netherlands swapped sides and France, who were England's strongest opponent, went over to the other side.

Also, it's always been a thing. Germany 2002 where they faced Ireland, Cameroon, Saudi Arabia, Paraguay, USA and South Korea to get in a WC final was talked about a lot. Portugal 2016 finished third in an a group with Iceland, Hungary and Austria and then faced Croatia, Poland and Wales to get in the final. That was also talked about at the time. But usually if a team wins it, it gets forgotten.

 

[Ramos]

Does the opposite happen? Does anyone's winning achievement ever get lauded more for doing it from the "hard" side?

Trying to think of examples of this. France 2000 was pretty hard. Netherlands, Czech Republic, Denmark in the group, then Spain, Portugal and Italy.

Spain 2012 as well. Italy, Croatia and Ireland in the group. Then France, Portugal and Italy again.

Not sure they were particularly lauded for it.

 

[FootballHQ]

Am I going mad, is it rose-tinted glasses misremembering my youth, or are conversations about the "easy side of the draw" in international tournaments a relatively recent thing? It's honestly not something I remember being talked about much before the Gareth Southgate England era, and while he's been in charge it seems to come up every tournament. The first time I remember a lot of talk about it was in the genius of Southgate's England losing to Belgium in 2018, which put them on the "easier side" of the World Cup bracket, where they were outplayed and beaten by the "easier" team of Croatia, ultimately leading them to lose to Belgium, again.

Is this a narrative that comes up as much outside of England? I don't remember Italy's World Cup win in 06 being put down to the "easy" draw even though their knockouts were against Australia, Ukraine and that transitional German team. England are on the "easy" side again in this Euros but might play Italy, the holders with a better big tournament pedigree, and Austria/Turkey, who have both looked exactly like the kinds of sides that have knocked England out before.

It's part of expanded tournaments I suppose, and it's a natural fan response to get excited about games that look easier to win on paper, and be relieved about avoiding sides that you're nervous about. But it definitely seems accepted these days that one half of a tournament bracket is going to be weaker. Typical English hubris, or another symptom of international football's decline (no fear factor about the Dutch and Italians)?

Euro 2016 was a good example.

Portugal scraped through in 3rd place and ended up avoiding all of Spain, Italy, Germany, France before the final so they're pretty comparable to England in this tournament.

Their knockout path was Croatia-Poland-Wales so very manageable when you see it written although of course they had to get past Poland on penalties.

I think it's just a consequence of some 3rd places going through and that makes the draw lopsided. Tournaments were more balanced with 1st places playing 2nd and straight into quarters, Euro 2012 had Spain-Portugal and Italy-Germany and you can't really get more balanced than that in terms of quality in both halves.

 

[FootballHQ]

Does the opposite happen? Does anyone's winning achievement ever get lauded more for doing it from the "hard" side?

Italy in the last Euros had to get through Belgium (who were still decent in 2021), Spain and then England. Two of those at Wembley and they also played Belgium away from Rome.

Also France won 2018 World cup going through Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium, all high quality teams that summer.

 

[FootballHQ]

I agree though they may have to play a team they just lost to, which is a bit of a weird dynamic. There's perhaps a feeling that they lost to Austria once, so they're less likely to lose to them again though.

I don't think it's out of the question it could be a Swiss-Austria SF. That would be something for the tournament although realistically the other finalist would be huge favourites.

Swiss are always tough to play in knock outs and defeated France in last Euros with many of the squad and Austria are playing excellent football so need to just keep doing that as should get them at least one win in the knock outs.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Not really. I follow both danish and German media and fan channels and no one is talking about England having a easy side. The only ones are English fans.

The English side is far easier, I find it hard to believe we're the only ones thatve noticed

 

[Stadjer]

Not really. I follow both danish and German media and fan channels and no one is talking about England having a easy side. The only ones are English fans.

The Dutch national team is on the same side as England and we say we are on the easy side.

 

[saivet]

The English side is far easier, I find it hard to believe we're the only ones thatve noticed

I would imagine that nations on the other half of the draw don't really care as it doesn't really concern them. Maybe France or Belgium are kicking themselves a bit but I certainly wouldn't expect Germans to be talking about it.

 

[Ish]

This happens basically in every tournament as far as I can remember - moreso when it’s merited as well. Madrid and their fairly difficult draws when they’ve won the UCL, our easy carling cup draws & success under eth etc.

 

[Ananke]

I mean there’s always going to be an easier side of the draw. It’ll never be balanced, especially when upsets in the group stages happen. You can’t say on paper that side isnt the one England is on because it certainly is.

However, certain teams on the ‘hard’ side of the draw haven’t shown up yet, and you can say there’s teams on the easier side of the draw that look dangerous. So you’re basically expecting those teams drop off, and expecting the big teams to turn up at some point. Whether that happens… *shrug*

I will say that IF England get to the final and IF England win the Euros, especially playing the way we are right now, the route taken won’t be forgotten by other fans. We aren’t liked by most of Europe, so it will be dissected like that.

 

[stefan92]

I would imagine that nations on the other half of the draw don't really care as it doesn't really concern them. Maybe France or Belgium are kicking themselves a bit but I certainly wouldn't expect Germans to be talking about it.

It's acknowledged here, but not much talked about. I saw one satirical comment complaining "if only Füllkrug had missed we would be on the easier side", but that's about it.

 

[Hammondo]

I mean there’s always going to be an easier side of the draw. It’ll never be balanced, especially when upsets in the group stages happen. You can’t say on paper that side isnt the one England is on because it certainly is.

However, certain teams on the ‘hard’ side of the draw haven’t shown up yet, and you can say there’s teams on the easier side of the draw that look dangerous. So you’re basically expecting those teams drop off, and expecting the big teams to turn up at some point. Whether that happens… *shrug*

I will say that IF England get to the final and IF England win the Euros, especially playing the way we are right now, the route taken won’t be forgotten by other fans. We aren’t liked by most of Europe, so it will be dissected like that.

I would argue Italy and the Netherlands have not shown up either.

 

[Utd heap]

The English side is far easier, I find it hard to believe we're the only ones thatve noticed

Yeah it's not a subjective opinion. One side has teams that aren't as good on it.

 

[Revan]

England is on the easier side of the draw. I do not see how it can be otherwise, all the good teams are in the other side.

I do not care though, it is finally coming home.

 

[DevilRed]

We're playing switzerland in the next round aren't we

Then it'll be austria in the semifinals.

southgate really does have a fecking magic about him when it comes to tournament draws.

 

[FootballHQ]

Wouldn't shock me if Swiss make the final. They're the Denmark of the last Euros. Lots of experience, very solid defence with Akanji-Schar top level and in their primes, Xhaka coming off an amazing domestic season and they have pace and trickery to get goals out of little in final third.

All elements are there for them. Let's remember they did knock France out of last Euros and then take Spain to extra time so this wouldn't be a Greece type story either.

 

[FootballHQ]

We're playing switzerland in the next round aren't we

Then it'll be austria in the semifinals.

southgate really does have a fecking magic about him when it comes to tournament draws.

Switzerland will be a far hardest test than Italy imo. People only basing that on the name and the 2021 Euros rather than England beating Italy home and away in qualification.

SFs could still have the Netherlands in it who'd also be a tricky match up.

England simply aren't playing well enough to be confident of everything, badly need a dominating 2 or 3 nil win tomorrow to settle most people down.

 

[crossy1686]

We're playing switzerland in the next round aren't we

Then it'll be austria in the semifinals.

southgate really does have a fecking magic about him when it comes to tournament draws.

Glad you’ve got the confidence in us beating Slovakia, because it looks like an England classic 0-0 and lose on penalties to me.

 

[bosnian_red]

We're playing switzerland in the next round aren't we

Then it'll be austria in the semifinals.

southgate really does have a fecking magic about him when it comes to tournament draws.

Both Switzerland and Austria play far better football than England and have far better coaching.

 

[DevilRed]

Glad you’ve got the confidence in us beating Slovakia, because it looks like an England classic 0-0 and lose on penalties to me.

1-0 grind it out from an early OG by slovenia.

Putting money on it at paddy as we speak.

 

[crossy1686]

1-0 grind it out from an early OG by slovenia.

Putting money on it at paddy as we speak.

Good luck! Hope you’re right

 

[DevilRed]

Both Switzerland and Austria play far better football than England and have far better coaching.

Wot? Southgate is a maestro in these tournaments.

 

[waza7111]

Switzerland look miles better than England.

There's no easy side of the draw when England are that crap.

 

[Pintu]

1-0 grind it out from an early OG by slovenia.

Putting money on it at paddy as we speak.

They are playing Portugal.

 

[Pintu]

Now I am sure England will finally win the Euros…

The easy side just got even easier… Switzerland knocked France out of Euro 2020 before losing on shootout to Spain.

Italy are really quite weak this year but with an in form Barella, with Calafiori and Dimarco back they’d have beaten England (In tournaments they always find a way…)

 

[Flying high]

Wot? Southgate is a maestro in these tournaments.

An austin maestro.

 

[iammemphis]

If we can just beat Slovakia then we're in with a chance... A big ask for these players though.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

I'll wait and see how the tournament goes before deciding which half of the draw was easier. A lot of "good" teams are playing shit, and a lot of expectedly weak teams are playing well

 

[AlexiV]

They are playing Portugal.

Toemaetoe tomattoe

 

[AlexiV]

If we can just beat Slovakia then we're in with a chance... A big ask for these players though.

Belgium got laughed at for losing against Slovakia and rightly so, they had 1 big chance which resulted in a goal after an unforced error from Doku. England is winning this comfortable, no reason to shit your pants.

 

[tentan]

Switzerland next, Southgate must be loving this.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Imagine moaning about having the easy side of the draw. It’s pretty fantastic luck - the best competition (on paper) is Portugal and they’ve got a 40 year old upfront (and at the back but it seems he’s doing great).

 

[NewGlory]

Switzerland look miles better than England.

There's no easy side of the draw when England are that crap.

This. And only a fool would take passing Slovakia for granted. England could definitely get knocked-out in this round, with Southgate at the helm and the de-moralized squad

 

[africanspur]

We're playing switzerland in the next round aren't we

Then it'll be austria in the semifinals.

southgate really does have a fecking magic about him when it comes to tournament draws.

This is part of the issue with the east side rhetoric. It focuses on name only.

If we progress (not even slightly guaranteed), we'll be playing Switzerland rather than Italy. Because they were better. Austria instead of France. Because they finished above them in the group. Etc etc.

 

[Rojofiam]

Austria and Switzerland are both much more organised and set up better tactically, than England have been in the group stage.

If Southgate stops sabotaging his own team, though, then England have a great opportunity to go to the final.

A lot will depend on what the starting eleven is today, for me. If Foden finally gets benched for Gordon, and either Mainoo or Wharton starts, then England supporters will have reason to be optimistic IMO...I think Palmer should also be given some play time, either at #10 or the right wing, with Saka potentially going over to the left after he comes in.

I'm not expecting anything from Southgate at this point, though.

 

[Insanity]

You English worry too much. You got this now that Southgate has stumbled into Mainoo.

Mainoo, not Jude, is your most important player and will lead you to play better football despite Southgate.

England are likely to make the semi-finals and possibly go beyond.

 

[buchansleftleg]

Whilst England can easily feck things up under their dreadful manager they have been gifted an easy route to a final for a third time.

I'm not dissing the other sides here but there is definitely an "attrition" factor of playing against more established threats.

The "bigger" nations will be more densely packed with big name players so you can't just plan on cancelling out their key star player.

In games against bigger opposition you're more likely to pick up yellow cards and resulting suspensions of your own key players.

Winners find a way to win whatever is put in their path of course. However England haven't made the most of the easy pathway they have been given in the last three tournaments.

 

[Antarion]

Not sure about "sides of the draw" Was a thing, but I remember Germany up until 2016 almost always got "easy" groups and a manageable first KO round opponents. But after that it heated up (2002 and 2010 being the exception afair). But 2002 wasnt a "easy side of the draw" thingy as it was simply luck that smaller teams beat bigger teams (Korea vs italy) so Germany did not have to face them.

Portugal 2016 Was the first time I thought about an easy side to the final and I also think this year looks loopsided on paper (even if swiss and Austria played better than e.g. Belgium, france or portugal) i would still rather face Swiss/AT than France imo.

 

[LA BOMBA]

Also, it's always been a thing. Germany 2002 where they faced Ireland, Cameroon, Saudi Arabia, Paraguay, USA and South Korea to get in a WC final was talked about a lot.

Germany was not on the easy side of the draw in 2002. Their side of the draw had Spain and Italy.

The other side of the draw only had Brazil and England out of big teams. Germany was actually on the harder side of the draw.

2002 WC simply saw many big teams eliminated in the group stage. Portugal, France and Argentina went out in their groups and the Netherlands didn't even qualify. That left only 5 big teams in the round of 16. Further upsets happened as South Korea eliminated Italy and Spain. Germany was simply the only European team besides England that was consistent and beat the teams they should have beaten. You can't call this being lucky with the draw when they were supposed to face big teams in the draw, but those big teams simply failed to make it through. South Korea was a dangerous team to face after they already eliminated 3 European giants in a row (Portugal in group stage).

It's not like the other finalist Brazil faced tougher opposition. Turkey, China, Costa Rica, Belgium (at the time Belgium was seen as a crap team), England, and Turkey again.

 

[DevilRed]

This is part of the issue with the east side rhetoric. It focuses on name only.

If we progress (not even slightly guaranteed), we'll be playing Switzerland rather than Italy. Because they were better. Austria instead of France. Because they finished above them in the group. Etc etc.

Its that east side/west coast beef!

I'll take my chances with switzerland, a side that hasn't beaten us since 1981.

france isn't on our side of the bracket. Only the dutch.

We're going to dogwalk this lot to the finals.

ITS COMING HOME LAD!