The draws/calendar had something to do with that.. We drew at home with the Netherland and lost to them away, we even dropped points to Bulgaria… what helped us was winning at home against an unmotivated France in June (Lloris -already thinking of his holidays gifted us that crazy Toivonen Goal), then France came back revengeful in August and destroyed the Dutch 4-0, which also helped us with the decisive goal-difference.
"Easy Side of the Draw"
- Thread starter Wonder Pigeon
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
The draws/calendar had something to do with that.. We drew at home with the Netherland and lost to them away, we even dropped points to Bulgaria… what helped us was winning at home against an unmotivated France in June (Lloris -already thinking of his holidays gifted us that crazy Toivonen Goal), then France came back revengeful in August and destroyed the Dutch 4-0, which also helped us with the decisive goal-difference.
Meh, could've conceded early on. Their first goal was a good move but got to Bernardo Silva with a defender deflection, second goal a few minutes later was the backpass feck-up and the game was done and dusted after that. They struggled against Georgia (who aren't shit in hindsight to be fair), have an inept manager with Martinez and are forced to play an over the hill Ronaldo. Don't think they have what it takes.
We're just like England in that we can play some pretty good stuff but seems like we're being held back by a bad manager. But fair enough if you only saw the first game, that wasn't good at all and against Ukraine was even worse. Romania showed that we're still capable of playing good football though. Not enough to be competitive in this tournament, but none of the big countries apart from Spain have been convincing imo.
This discussion only becomes important if you don't go all the way. When you win the title, nobody will ask about it because you definitely are the best of all teams.
But if you end somewhere half the way, then it becomes interesting to discuss how good you really were, based on the quality of the teams you beat (or didn't beat).
Netherlands England Italy could be in form teams in another tournament. It's just the in form teams on one side of the draw.
Germany, Spain, Portugal have done nothing in recent tournaments but are in form now. Just luck the draw and the teams is like this.
Germany, Spain, Portugal have done nothing in recent tournaments but are in form now. Just luck the draw and the teams is like this.
Not gloating but mentioning it. Heavily mentioned on BBC. Talked about a lot before the tournament.
Back then there was a larger number of quality teams both on international tournaments and the CL, so there was no easy side of the draw.
That side of the draw that Italy was in on WC 2006 included a brilliant Argentina team (which then lost to Germany on penalties). And all the other teams were actually very good too if you look at their players and the context.
Ukraine had Shevchenko and were seen as a dangerous team. They beat Switzerland in the round of 16. The Swiss finished ahead of France in their group and had a golden generation. Most of their players played in top European clubs like Arsenal, Lyon, Dortmund, Milan, Hamburg and Leverkusen.
Australia had their golden generation with Kewell, Viduka, Culina, Schwarzer, Cahill, Bresciano... They knocked out Croatia and Japan in their group and gave Brazil a hard fight.
The other two teams on that side of the draw were Mexico (when they were still good) and Sweden with Ibrahimović, Ljungberg and Larsson.
All of these teams were seen as dangerous and were highly rated at the time. You'd be seen as totally clueless about football at the time if you even suggested any of these teams were "easy draw".
Back in the 00s international tournaments were so stacked with quality that even if you look at the "lesser" teams that were in the knockout phase, you can look at their teams and instantly see quality there.
The talk of "easy side of the draw" started when quality started decreasing and teams with no recognizable world class players and no real identity started making knockouts regularly.
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There's only so much news to report on, so of course it's gonna be an item that your next opponent is significantly easier than let's say Spain or Germany in the QFs. Don't see the big deal in it, no one is saying that they're going to the final, merely reporting that they avoid the biggest favorites on their path should they get so far.
It's all setting up for the England hype and it's coming home to reach fever pitch...
Only to lose 5-0 to Germany in the final.
Only to lose 5-0 to Germany in the final.
Personally, I haven’t heard anyone “crowing” or making premature assumptions. Mostly, the easy side of the draw narrative is used to marvel at the extraordinary good fortune of the waistcoated one
The people that seem more obsessed about the draw seem to be those who have an agenda with England/The English.
Its all a bit weird.
Its all a bit weird.
This feels like persecution complex. The only people that are talking about it are English fans, using it to deride Southgate and talking about how lucky he is.
And to be fair I can understand why they feel that way given how talented their squad is compared to the playstyle.
Ah right, that silly own goal by Turkey.
They do have an inept manager. I suppose Belgians know better than anyone
it seems mentioned when England get an easier draw (but strangely not mentioned in reverse when they get France in the QF despite winning the group while Morocco and an ageing Croatia get to the semis).
Of all the teams that have a realistic shout in this, the Netherlands have the easiest route to the semi-finals by far. Super lucky draw for them.
Well, that's just not true. Germany managed to reach the World Cup final 2002 in the middle of their darkest age (until recently), back to back Euro group stage exits 2000 and 2004. How? Because they had an incredibly easy draw until meeting Brazil.
I agree though they may have to play a team they just lost to, which is a bit of a weird dynamic. There's perhaps a feeling that they lost to Austria once, so they're less likely to lose to them again though.
If it's favourites based on the seeding criteria used for the draw (which means assuming the Pot 1 teams win their groups, the Pot 2 teams finish second, and the four "best" Pot 3 teams were the four best third placed teams):
Spain vs Scotland
Germany vs Denmark
Portugal vs Slovenia
Austria vs Denmark
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Belgium vs Croatia
France vs Turkey
England vs Netherlands
Hungary vs Albania
If it's favourites based on FIFA ranking before the tournament started:
Spain vs Hungary
Germany vs Denmark
Portugal vs Serbia
Netherlands vs Ukraine
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Belgium vs Italy
France vs Czechia
England vs Austria
Switzerland vs Italy
Interestingly, at the start of the tournament Group B had three teams inside the top ten (Spain, Italy, Croatia at 8, 9 and 10 respectively), Group D had the highest ranked "worst" team (Poland ranked 28), whereas Portugal in Group F (ranked 6) were the only team inside the top 35 in their group.
There was no easy side of the draw on WC 2002 either. The side of the draw on which Germany was on included Spain and Italy.
The other side of the draw only had Brazil and England out of the big teams.
Germany was actually on the relatively harder side of the draw in 2002.
The thing is that South Korea then eliminated Italy and Spain but no one predicted that when the round of 16 began. No one was talking about there being an easier side of the draw.
Whether the actual draw that Germany ended up having due to South Korea upset was easy or not is irrelevant to this discussion. Because we're talking about the concept of "easy side of the draw" (eg. where one side of the draw as a whole consists of easier teams than the other side of the draw) and not easy draws in general.
Your realism takes away from the fun! These tournaments are all about feeding our delusions. I say we go all the way to the finals, and if it's against Germany I say we'll win the whole bloody thing
haven't you seen our substitutes won a friendly against a 4th division team yesterday while only giving away ONE goal? We're hitting peak form right now. Ronald Koeman will be feared around all of Europe, not just in our own country!Interesting, thank you!
Yeah. Our very own treble, recent Madrid victories etc., fans do remember this stuff.
Oh I'm not one of the realists. Or actually I am, we will smash Romania 4-0 and take revenge on Austria.Your realism takes away from the fun! These tournaments are all about feeding our delusions. I say we go all the way to the finals, and if it's against Germany I say we'll win the whole bloody thing
Cheers. Honestly if they don't run Romania off the pitch like a pack of wild dogs after that performance against Austria I will be very disappointed.
This feels like a classic case of gaslighting!
We have been incredibly lucky with the draws over the last few tournaments under southgate. Its the only reason why we have gone deep into certain tournaments.
If italy loses to switzerland, we actually have a chance to get to the finals. All the while potentially avoiding all (or at least 4) of Germany, Spain, France, Portugal and Belgium.
Its coming home.
If italy loses to switzerland, we actually have a chance to get to the finals. All the while potentially avoiding all (or at least 4) of Germany, Spain, France, Portugal and Belgium.
Its coming home.
It’s coming home mate.
Not really. I follow both danish and German media and fan channels and no one is talking about England having a easy side. The only ones are English fans.
And the non English Caf members *
This is how Southgate survived all these years. Easy draws and when ye come up against anyone decent. England bottle it.
Would be weird for them to just randomly talk about it though? More if we drew a team, their media would say we’ve had a favourable route, haven’t been tested etc.
Part of the reason why England look so awful is because we insist on being reliant on players like Kane and Foden who seemingly play no matter what.
And of course, Southgate has just gone and fielded virtually the same starting line up in each one of the group games and needlessly put minutes into the legs of players he would, hypothetically at least, need to keep fresh.
Georgia got some luck against Portugal, but they looked fresher and both goals stemmed from defensive lapses caused by effective pressing. Not sure if that was down to the tiredness of the players but it could well have been a factor.
And of course, Southgate has just gone and fielded virtually the same starting line up in each one of the group games and needlessly put minutes into the legs of players he would, hypothetically at least, need to keep fresh.
Georgia got some luck against Portugal, but they looked fresher and both goals stemmed from defensive lapses caused by effective pressing. Not sure if that was down to the tiredness of the players but it could well have been a factor.
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Only a few though. That vast majority don't and the majority, even on here, talking about it are English fans worried this will be used as a defence for Southgate again, which makes sense.
My personal opinion as a dane is that a if you win it all it's a massive achievement and will be well deserved. Especially given the smaller nations have, for a large part, been looking better than the big ones at this tournament. Treating Slovakia or Austria like some walk in the park is weird.
Yes but to be fair we were on the easy side of the draw in 2018 and lucked our way to the semi final
We can agree on that.
It would, but that's what he made it sound like happened. The anti English thing was definitely a thing last Euros, part of it due to some sections of travelling English fans behaving badly and the whole coming home thing.
But my experience has been that those three things, have been completely different this Euros.
Don’t worry, it’s coming home will start up if we can slog our way to the semis.
Well if Kobbie scores the winner in the final then I'll be happy it went home
We are likely out after facing Germany so I will be cheering for the teams with United players in them.
This used to be my thinking, but then I met too many drunk English fans on my holidays around Europe for the past few tournaments and heard too much "it's coming home".Well if Kobbie scores the winner in the final then I'll be happy it went home
We are likely out after facing Germany so I will be cheering for the teams with United players in them.
Now I can't wait for England to fail once again.
I disagree. Austria are the form team and they'll play them next.
I fancy Austria to make the final actually.
Which is hard to believe considering they was a 3rd place team. Feels like it would have been better for most teams finishing 3rd/2nd.