I've been living in a racist country for 24 years. Dutch people are the worst racists I've come across
Dutch general elections on Wednesday!
- Thread starter Rams
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What the flying feck. I remember hearing about this guy for the first time when I was in uni in the late 2000's but then thinking he's a relative nobody in Dutch politics and is a typical right-wing nutjob no one follows.
Now he's going to be the prime minister of the country. How the hell can any Muslim feel safe in Netherlands knowning the it's going to be lead by someone who publically hates them and doesn't want them in the country? Also that he was voted in, so the population support his views as well.
Scary when you think about how many Muslims already live there.
Now he's going to be the prime minister of the country. How the hell can any Muslim feel safe in Netherlands knowning the it's going to be lead by someone who publically hates them and doesn't want them in the country? Also that he was voted in, so the population support his views as well.
Scary when you think about how many Muslims already live there.
That's a bit racist, ironically. Now get out of my country, foreigner scum.
I think his hatred is of Islam in particular
I speak as I find, my Mrs included
Doesn't that automatically apply to those who practice that religion, i.e Muslims?
That's like saying I hate Nazism but that doesn't mean I hate Nazis.
The equivalent might be saying I hate nazism but don't hate Germans who lived during that period. I'm not advocating anything he preaches but dutch people wanted change from Rutte and now they have it.. I did agree with one thing he said against my favourite Frans Timmermans. 'You may speak 7 languages but you don't understand the language of the people, those that say they can't afford to feed their kids......'.
That I agree with and Rutte put those fam8lies and kids in this place
I never talked about Dutch people hating Muslims, I said Geert does and it's worrying that people would still vote for him knowing his views. It does certainly show they wouldn't care if Muslims get harassed and vilified because of this as it benefits them, certainly like how Germans didn't care about Jews being vilified by Nazis when they voted for Hitler's party.
EDIT: I can see I said 'supports his views', didn't mean to say they actively hate Muslims, but certainly the point I make in this post that they are comfortable with his views.
So Wilders it is? Was a hopeful couple of weeks in Europe post Polish elections but it was never going to last I guess. Let's see if he does the pivot to manageable right wing indecency some had thought Trump would perform but that never materialized.
I spent 3 months in Utrecht back in 2008 and remember coming across multiple people trying to tell me the Netherlands only really has space for 10-12 mil (with the worrying connotations such a statement has in a Nation exceeding 15 mil). Do these people still exist and are they a part of the Wilders orbit?
I spent 3 months in Utrecht back in 2008 and remember coming across multiple people trying to tell me the Netherlands only really has space for 10-12 mil (with the worrying connotations such a statement has in a Nation exceeding 15 mil). Do these people still exist and are they a part of the Wilders orbit?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Dutch_general_election
Looks like a pretty wild ride. What made PVV just about double their polling numbers within two to three weeks? I mean usually that kind of shift is prompted by some major incident, isn't it?
I live in Utrecht for 15+ years now, and totally do not recognize this. Utrecht is very liberal and left winged, especially the well educated part of it. People who vote for Geert Wilders typically are the lower educated, lower-/non employed part of the population. His tenure will be a total disaster, setting the country back decades in terms of climate policy, xenophobia, Europe, etc. Horrible results
Possibly I should have worded that differently. Indeed it wasn't at all representative of the vast majority of people I met, who fit your description of Utrecht well. I ran across multiple people raising the topic without me prompting it out of possibly hundreds of people I talked to in those months. (however those were well educated business consultants among them too, so not you're typical far right voter)
I guess this is what happens when legitimate concerns related to immigration are left solely for far-right Russia sympathisers to latch on to.
A lesson for those who only tolerate left wing, liberal views and shout down any opposing points.
You mean illogical and completely illegitimate concerns are amplified by the right as a means of consolidating power?
True.
Actually a lesson for left wing politicians that the best way to get elected is shouting moronic populist nonsense that speaks to the underbelly of the ignorant masses.
Geert Wilders deserves to be shouted down. He is a populist moron who will have to cut out almost his entire agenda on immigration if he wants to govern. You can't ban all mosques, prohibit women from wearing a head scarf and deport people for visiting their country of origin.
Social media has really amplified the sad fact that people are truly too dumb for democracy.
People might be a bit ashamed to admit they vote PVV when asked in a poll? Being a brown people hating fascist tends to at least come with a bit of shame in modern times. Though I'm sure old Geert would argue he just hates the colour brown, not brown people, as he also always so eloquently states, he just hates Islam, not muslims.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Dutch_general_election
Looks like a pretty wild ride. What made PVV just about double their polling numbers within two to three weeks? I mean usually that kind of shift is prompted by some major incident, isn't it?
This is very true. In Belgium Vlaams Belang (extreme right-wing) has recently written an immegration memo and it's supposed to be very moderate/reasonable given their views. When asked about how their voters would react to such a "lame duck memo", and the response of one of the others in the studio was literally "as if their voters are reading what they put in their policy notes". And that's true. I don't think (or don't want to think) that most people who voted PVV are racists are fine with racism, but I see it more as a vote against the political establishment because they are fed up with the way things are going and how their "daily lives concerns" are not heard/dealt with by politicians. And then you get this situation where they're just like "let's see how this other guy does then".
His policy will need to be within EU / human rights guidelines but even then you can do a lot of damage towards previously acquired rights for some groups of the population.
It's the worst form of government except for all others
I fear for my country next year, even while I perfectly fit the description of what right-wing would describe as an ideal citizen in their backwards views.[/Quote][/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]This is very true. In Belgium Vlaams Belang (extreme right-wing) has recently written an immegration memo and it's supposed to be very moderate/reasonable given their views. When asked about how their voters would react to such a "lame duck memo", and the response of one of the others in the studio was literally "as if their voters are reading what they put in their policy notes". And that's true. I don't think (or don't want to think) that most people who voted PVV are racists are fine with racism, but I see it more as a vote against the political establishment because they are fed up with the way things are going and how their "daily lives concerns" are not heard/dealt with by politicians. And then you get this situation where they're just like "let's see how this other guy does then".
His policy will need to be within EU / human rights guidelines but even then you can do a lot of damage towards previously acquired rights for some groups of the population.
It's the worst form of government except for all others
I fear for my country next year, even while I perfectly fit the description of what right-wing would describe as an ideal citizen in their backwards views.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, I have nothing to fear from Geert Wilders. If anything I should deport him, he's 50% indonesian. Foreign scum.
I hear this excuse a lot, all over the Europe and rest of the world.
Populists tend to resonate with the ignorant. Hardly an excuse.
Problem with that is whoever thinks that they will cease to be ignorant in the future is even less intelligent than them. Reasonable politicians need to find a way to speak to these people.
(and i'm not entirely sure all of them are that stupid, some are just legitimately nasty)
Yes fighting fire with fire seems to be the only way. Right wing rethoric is much easier to sell though. People can just shift all blame to whoever the right wing populist has deemed the "enemy of our people" and they are promised low taxes over THEIR money.
Left wing policy requires complicated things like empathy and reflection.
He’s not going to be prime minister. He’s actually quite popular under young muslims.
Wilders has also never been fringe. He always gets many votes. Other parties just refuse to work with him.
But every data point on that graph is a poll? Including the late surge.
To be fair to Geert this is from before the current war. He might be racist, but he's not the textbook pro Russia anti deepstate weirdo modern right winger.
I am sick of this "legitimate concerns about immigration" people spout. Let's get to the crux of the issue. These people want similarly-looking Caucasians. None of these brown, black people crap. They want a homogenous society.
I would be more willing to engage if people just admitted it. You want people who look like you.
I would be more willing to engage if people just admitted it. You want people who look like you.
This is a textbook example why right wing populists are seeing historic highs. If you ignore people's concerns or even brand them as hardcore racist, you can't be too surprised if they stop voting for you and gravitate towards someone, who doesn't.
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Sad to see another country fall victim to the global right wing wave that’s poisoning politics and society as a whole. This is way bigger than I thought it would be. The cnuts are winning everywhere.
It’s four years after the annexation of the Krim. Not exactly a much better timing.
I haven't ignored it. I have said let's admit what the real issue is and let's deal with that. And this is a topic that's bigger than Europe.
I agree it's still in poor taste, but "the world" didn't care nearly as much in 2018.
I'm just saying he's not pro Russia, because he isn't.
You're not ignoring it, you're just saying people should ignore it and get to the "real" issue, which is hardcore racism. At least that's what I gather from your posts.
I don’t claim to know much about Dutch politics, but I am pretty sure to have read about his ties to Russia before and a quick google search seems to confirm this.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/19/leaked-documents-show-connections-pvv-russia
Oh wow, this makes me look dumb
Guess he was rather successful in hiding it. He has repeatedly said he condemns Russia for their agression. In my defense this stuff has been discovered rather recently?