I've been wondering about this as well. I won't be LPF levels of bad, cause that was a leaderless party after Fortuyn's dead - who then got in a couple of giant egos that were impossible to contain. But yeah, as you say, it's quite the opposite with Wilders. He wants total control of his party, so he has a habit of letting go of people that have their own strong opinions, including subject-matter experts (probably because they can undermine him). So a government with the PVV won't descend into chaos, but if he wants to get strong ministers in place, he'll probably have to get them outside his party. Plasterk might be one of those actually.
Dutch general elections on Wednesday!
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So with Omtzigt of NSC also refusing to negotiate with PVV we now have absolutely no possibility of forming a government with the biggest party (by a mile). I didn't vote PVV but the absolutely ridiculous stance NSC and VVD are taking are making me consider it should we be forced to vote again soon. Just to prove a fecking point.
Why though? Wilders is the one with a program that's literally impossible to make happen without burning the constitution. A lot of people might vote for that, but far more people are vehemently opposed to that. So either he comes up with something workable or he can come back when he gets a majority by himself.
Most people don't want Wilders in the government while they're fine with other parties in there.
That's a bullshit excuse. He's been very clear he wants an agreement within the confines of the constitution. He's said he's willing to forfeit his anti Muslim points. As others have said the rest of his program is hardly controversial, even leaning towards the left. These parties have more than enough in common to find a middle ground but instead the NSC and VVD are undermining democracy by not even talking to the biggest party of the country. And the VVD voters have been clear that they want to give it a shot so they're undermining their own voters as well. It's a total farce. No wonder there's zero trust in the government.
If Wilders cuts out all his Islam points, by all means, go and govern. He'll lose over 50% of his voter base come next election, because the thing they voted for and the only thing he's talked about for 17 years didnt happen. Talk about undermining your own voters.
None of this changes the fact that most people don't want Geert Wilders in our government and since we're a parliamentary democracy any majority government is a representation of the majority of the electorate. If said electorate doesn't like it, they can punish them by voting for someone else next time. There is nothinf in the law that forces anyone to form a coalition with the biggest party. Perhaps Geert can reflect on why no one wants to play with him. Maybe it's because he's a racist cnut, or maybe it's the silly hair.
Anyone still voting for VVD at this point deserves to be undermined anyway. How can they expect any form of honesty from that party at this point.
And yes, I'm very unreasonable on the topic of Geert Wilders, I know
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I was about to say I thought the other major right wing party didn't want to join him, but I saw your subsequent posts discussing it. I guess we're just waiting for the negotiations to start now, if they haven't already?
On the climate change and nitrogen emissons I'll have to take your word for it. But I still don't think I see the disaster. Whatever measures he can halt/enact even with a majority won't really matter to anyone but the Dutch people who are invested in this. But I take your point, he could make a national difference there maybe.
I had a quick look at Dutch immigration statistics (I guess both EU and non-EU are grouped together). Net, it went up from 107 000 to 223 000 from 2021 to 2022. So I'm not sure what a hard stance on immigration would look like? Cutting it in half, for example, sounds drastic, but then when you look at the numbers it really just means going back to how it was the previous year. Going even more drastically about it might bring you back to early 2000s level at around 20 000 per year. Unless he's actually going to pick a fight with the entire system he operates within, I don't think he'll be able to do anything other than reign it it a little bit. My very surface take on Dutch politics
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A couple of parties suggested hard limits, like 50,000 (VVD I think) - but Wilders set his limit to 0. None of that can actually be implemented while continuing to adhere to international agreements that the Netherlands have signed, but you get the idea!I was about to say I thought the other major right wing party didn't want to join him, but I saw your subsequent posts discussing it. I guess we're just waiting for the negotiations to start now, if they haven't already?
On the climate change and nitrogen emissons I'll have to take your word for it. But I still don't think I see the disaster. Whatever measures he can halt/enact even with a majority won't really matter to anyone but the Dutch people who are invested in this. But I take your point, he could make a national difference there maybe.
I had a quick look at Dutch immigration statistics (I guess both EU and non-EU are grouped together). Net, it went up from 107 000 to 223 000 from 2021 to 2022. So I'm not sure what a hard stance on immigration would look like? Cutting it in half, for example, sounds drastic, but then when you look at the numbers it really just means going back to how it was the previous year. Going even more drastically about it might bring you back to early 2000s level at around 20 000 per year. Unless he's actually going to pick a fight with the entire system he operates within, I don't think he'll be able to do anything other than reign it it a little bit. My very surface take on Dutch politics
The formation got more complicated today again because the NSC now first wants Wilders to explicitly back down on a number of points that would be illegal/unconstitutional if implemented as-is, and they want no part in that. Let's see what's next!
So their deal to him was to basically go back to 2012
And I agree, his promises can't be enacted within the current legal framwork. That is the problem for any populist right wing European leader - they try to change the system from within, but the inbuilt defences are too refined at this point. If you want at least the perception of adhering to the rule of law, I imagine it would require an iron will and a massive legaslative majority over many years to actually make it legally feasible. Which doesn't sound likely at all given the massive opposition he's facing. I'll enjoy following this story for the drama! Should we expect news in the days to come, or are we talking weeks or possibly months?
All three possibly. We shod get more clarity within a week or so on what direction coalition talks will take - and then we'll also know if it will be another lengthy process or a quicker one this time.So their deal to him was to basically go back to 2012
And I agree, his promises can't be enacted within the current legal framwork. That is the problem for any populist right wing European leader - they try to change the system from within, but the inbuilt defences are too refined at this point. If you want at least the perception of adhering to the rule of law, I imagine it would require an iron will and a massive legaslative majority over many years to actually make it legally feasible. Which doesn't sound likely at all given the massive opposition he's facing. I'll enjoy following this story for the drama! Should we expect news in the days to come, or are we talking weeks or possibly months?
What on earth are you talking about? Have you seen his climate policy? He wants to abandon all energy transition efforts, reopen the coal factories and leave the UN Climate agreement. That's as conservative right as you can possibly get. And it would be terrible for the future of the Netherlands
Ah yes, climate. That and migration are indeed the points where he's not leaning towards the left. Though he's definitely not alone in that either. As you may have noticed the country is extremely divided on that topic. I'm sure he'd be willing to compromise on that.
So we are very close to a Geert Wilders government. As @Pogue Mahone just told me in the VAR thread; Jesus wept.
That's not ideal
Yes really. At least he's not going to be our PM, but the outline of their plans are shite. And almost entirely unfeasible. Wilders wants to tell the EU that we want to be exempt from immigration policy and be much stricter than the rest of the EU.
Also. Really?!!
They also want far more border security. They stopped short of actually saying they want to BUILD A WALL AND LET BELGIUM PAY, but it's essentially the same rhetoric.
We suck.
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It's funny cause you could replace Wilders with Van Grieken in that sentence and still be correct, and they'll be the major winners of our elections next month as well.
Scary times.