Bubz27
No I won’t change your tag line
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
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- 22,024
It also says he said he wants to finish his contract. So that suggests he wants to stay at Arsenal but wants the team to have a winning mentality.
It also says he said he wants to finish his contract. So that suggests he wants to stay at Arsenal but wants the team to have a winning mentality.
It also says he said he wants to finish his contract. So that suggests he wants to stay at Arsenal but wants the team to have a winning mentality.
Aside from Milito, all those players were ~world class players with multiple great seasons on their CV. They're hardly comparable to Mertens.RVP joined us at 29. That didn't turn out badly at all. And of course, there is Lion Ibrahimovic.
My favourite example is always Pirlo. I remember some people saying he was finished when he joined Juve at age 32. He was a beast there for 3 or 4 amazing seasons. Probably played the best football of his career then.
Samuel Eto was just short of 29 when he joined Inter Milan. Same with Diego Milito (the most underated striker and goalscorer of all time) who was just about 30 when he joined Inter. They both won that incredible treble for Inter.
Zidane was over 29 when he joined Real Madrid. He won the LA liga, champions league and balloon d'or titles with them.
But I have to say that for all those good examples above, there are also bad ones.
I think multiple factors determine if buying an older player makes sense or not. Such a purchase has to be properly contextualized before one can judge the decision. How good and fit is the player? How much is he going for? How much problems can he solve for the buying team? What values can he bring? Etc. A few important questions need to be answered.
RVP joined us at 29. That didn't turn out badly at all. And of course, there is Lion Ibrahimovic.
My favourite example is always Pirlo. I remember some people saying he was finished when he joined Juve at age 32. He was a beast there for 3 or 4 amazing seasons. Probably played the best football of his career then.
Samuel Eto was just short of 29 when he joined Inter Milan. Same with Diego Milito (the most underated striker and goalscorer of all time) who was just about 30 when he joined Inter. They both won that incredible treble for Inter.
Zidane was over 29 when he joined Real Madrid. He won the LA liga, champions league and balloon d'or titles with them.
But I have to say that for all those good examples above, there are also bad ones.
I think multiple factors determine if buying an older player makes sense or not. Such a purchase has to be properly contextualized before one can judge the decision. How good and fit is the player? How much is he going for? How much problems can he solve for the buying team? What values can he bring? Etc. A few important questions need to be answered.
I really like him. Excellent player, but he's only recently made this transition to an out-and-out striker. Will he maintain that form or translate that over to the PL upfront at 29 and with his stature aswell? That's where my reservations would lie, even though he has been excellent this season.
I follow your logic mate but it's like you wanted us to play cross the odd one out with Ibra, Milito, Eto'o, Pirlo, Zidane and Dries Mertens.
Aside from Milito, all those players were ~world class players with multiple great seasons on their CV. They're hardly comparable to Mertens.
TBF player quality is by far and away the most important factor. How a few all time greats did after transferring late in their career has very little predictive value for how a late bloomer/possible one season wonder will do.I was not comparing their quality. I was comparing their ages. I did say that different factors come to play including player quality.
Turns to 30y next month. No thanks.
He isnt average by any means, and has been even outperforming the famous Hazard for ages in Belgium.An average 29 year old player who is having his first good season since leaving eredivisie 4 years ago, what could go wrong?, also to all those comparing him to zlatan, blanc, zidane, eto'o etc. just repeat their names alongside mertens and ask yourself whether it even feels right to mention mertens in the same sentence with those players.
Zlatan is the exception rather than the rule. The fact is very, very few players can maintain their form at the top level after 30.
I was referring to attacking players such as Mertens. Of course it's easier for midfielders and also defenders to maintain their form for longer. The only players I can think of other than Zlatan that have maintained something close to their best form in their mid-thirties are Robben, Ronaldo and Di Natale.Most players maintain decent form till 32-33 easily. Don't know how you came up with that number. I'd say Rooney and Bastian were the exceptions and not the other way round. Remember Giggs, Scholes, Carrick at 32?
Look at his stats for Napoli, before this season he has had 97 appearances 44 starts 53 subs, scoring a whopping 22 goals and 17 assists in 3 seasons. Looking at his starts and sub appearances clearly shows he wasn't a definite starter for Napoli until this season, so unless napoli were the crazy ones who did not let the great dries mertens play to his potential we can safely assume he was considered average. His goals don't show a full picture given his sub appearances, so lets look at his minutes played, in 2013-14 he scored 1 goal per 174 minutes, in 2014-15 he needed an average 280 mins to score 1 goal, in 2015-16 it 218 minutes per goal. If you contrast those numbers to his current season stat of 99 minutes per goal. This will be his first great season in 4 years, this atleast to me looks like what they call a one season wonder, he has never had a better season before and most likely won't be repeating it either.He isnt average by any means, and has been even outperforming the famous Hazard for ages in Belgium.
So if a player isnt a starter he is average? He is by no means world class but everyone who has known him for a longer while knows that he is a player with something special, he isnt a world beater but also not a random average player. Clutching at stats also makes me think you havent really watched him. Nor for Napoli or Belgium.Look at his stats for Napoli, before this season he has had 97 appearances 44 starts 53 subs, scoring a whopping 22 goals and 17 assists in 3 seasons. Looking at his starts and sub appearances clearly shows he wasn't a definite starter for Napoli until this season, so unless napoli were the crazy ones who did not let the great dries mertens play to his potential we can safely assume he was considered average. His goals don't show a full picture given his sub appearances, so lets look at his minutes played, in 2013-14 he scored 1 goal per 174 minutes, in 2014-15 he needed an average 280 mins to score 1 goal, in 2015-16 it 218 minutes per goal. If you contrast those numbers to his current season stat of 99 minutes per goal. This will be his first great season in 4 years, this atleast to me looks like what they call a one season wonder, he has never had a better season before and most likely won't be repeating it either.
Yes i haven't watched him at either Napoli or Belgium but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you are not considered a definite starter for Napoli you are not really man utd first team material. As i said his stats show he was an average player prior to this season, one good season does not make you special, there are more than a few players around who outclass their better and more talented teammates while playing for national team, unless we are signing him so he can play for belgium it really does not matter how he plays for his NT.So if a player isnt a starter he is average? He is by no means world class but everyone who has known him for a longer while knows that he is a player with something special, he isnt a world beater but also not a random average player. Clutching at stats also makes me think you havent really watched him. Nor for Napoli or Belgium.
I only mentioned the NT to argue he isnt average, dont think prior to this season he was United quality either but what is United quality as of now to be honest? Furthermore he had 18 goals and 11 assists last season in all comps and 12 goals and 10 assists the season prior to that, those arent stats for an average striker let alone average winger. Thats pretty much of United standard, our last 2 wingers to reach such output are Martial last season and Nani..(included NT, just to show he isnt as half average as you say just because you dont even know him).Yes i haven't watched him at either Napoli or Belgium but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you are not considered a definite starter for Napoli you are not really man utd first team material. As i said his stats show he was an average player prior to this season, one good season does not make you special, there are more than a few players around who outclass their better and more talented teammates while playing for national team, unless we are signing him so he can play for belgium it really does not matter how he plays for his NT.
Look at his stats for Napoli, before this season he has had 97 appearances 44 starts 53 subs, scoring a whopping 22 goals and 17 assists in 3 seasons. Looking at his starts and sub appearances clearly shows he wasn't a definite starter for Napoli until this season, so unless napoli were the crazy ones who did not let the great dries mertens play to his potential we can safely assume he was considered average. His goals don't show a full picture given his sub appearances, so lets look at his minutes played, in 2013-14 he scored 1 goal per 174 minutes, in 2014-15 he needed an average 280 mins to score 1 goal, in 2015-16 it 218 minutes per goal. If you contrast those numbers to his current season stat of 99 minutes per goal. This will be his first great season in 4 years, this atleast to me looks like what they call a one season wonder, he has never had a better season before and most likely won't be repeating it either.
I have some doubts about him if we were to sign him. First there is the whole late bloomer/potential one season wonder thing, but more importantly, he's blossomed playing a position he probably wouldn't be playing for us. Mourinho isn't going to all of a sudden start playing a 1.69m featherweight false nine. Maybe he's our Griezmann backup plan and would play SS?
That being said, I wouldn't mind an experienced attacking player being added to the squad, as long as we still add another top class attacking player.
I expect Rooney is 100% gone in the summer. Zlatan is the question mark. In any case, regardless of numbers, we need more quality in the final third. With the players we have, it could happen organically of course, with Martial and Rashford making a leap and Miki having settled into the PL, but I don't think Mourinho is the type to take that chance.I reckon he's a decent Griezmann back-up plan, like you said.
A lot depends on whether Ibra stays or goes. Adding 2 forwards on top of Ibra could spell trouble for Rashford and Martial. Especially the latter. A lot depends on Rooney deciding to move on too, a decision that is out of our hands when he has 2 years left on a very expensive contract.
In terms of numbers, we have a LOT of forwards:
- Ibra
- Rooney
- Martial
- Mata
- Mkhi
- Rashford
- Lingard
That's 7 players. We can't realistically add to this, we can at best replace or ideally reduce the size. Considering we play with either 3 forwards (4-3-3) or 4 (4-2-3-1) at best, 6 is a normal number that gives you both adequate rotation and cover. That's more than most teams have already. At 7 forwards, someone ends up being excluded from the squad a lot. Earlier in the season it was Mkhi, then Martial, now it's Rooney. That breeds discontent in the long run and it's not sustainable.
So for us to even think about getting anyone, Rooney needs to go this summer first and foremost. Then if Ibra goes, we'll need a player who can lead the line. If Ibra stays then the only way we could add another forward player in my opinion is if we sell one first (Mata or Martial most likely; since Mkhi is new, Lingard just renewed and Jose likes Rashford) or, alternatively, if we send Rashford out on loan for a year.
I reckon he's a decent Griezmann back-up plan, like you said.
A lot depends on whether Ibra stays or goes. Adding 2 forwards on top of Ibra could spell trouble for Rashford and Martial. Especially the latter. A lot depends on Rooney deciding to move on too, a decision that is out of our hands when he has 2 years left on a very expensive contract.
In terms of numbers, we have a LOT of forwards:
- Ibra
- Rooney
- Martial
- Mata
- Mkhi
- Rashford
- Lingard
That's 7 players. We can't realistically add to this, we can at best replace or ideally reduce the size. Considering we play with either 3 forwards (4-3-3) or 4 (4-2-3-1) at best, 6 is a normal number that gives you both adequate rotation and cover. That's more than most teams have already. At 7 forwards, someone ends up being excluded from the squad a lot. Earlier in the season it was Mkhi, then Martial, now it's Rooney. That breeds discontent in the long run and it's not sustainable.
So for us to even think about getting anyone, Rooney needs to go this summer first and foremost. Then if Ibra goes, we'll need a player who can lead the line. If Ibra stays then the only way we could add another forward player in my opinion is if we sell one first (Mata or Martial most likely; since Mkhi is new, Lingard just renewed and Jose likes Rashford) or, alternatively, if we send Rashford out on loan for a year.
None of those 7 options gives you the type of player that Mertens does. He gives you close ball control in tight areas. He's faster than Mata and a better dribbler.
Errm Martial played exactly like that last year. And even if that was the case the case, the team is just not gonna end up with 8 forwards just because everyone offers something different.
Martial and Mertens play a different style of game. Mertens can play anywhere on attack.
You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
He used to play as a LW while Higuain was there, a bit like Martial does for us. He has averaged more than 10goals a season from the LW position for 3 seasons. 13goals 12as on his first season, 10g 12as on his second, 11goals 7 ass on his 3rd. He had a great first and second season, but in his third season he started losing out to Insigne (he was keeping him out of the side till that point) who is also a great LW and was simply fantastic last season (13g, 11as) and obviouly 5 years younger and Italian.
After Higuain left though, Mertens became a striker again for the first time since his move from Eindhoven to Napoli. His stats this season (26g 12as) are not an anomaly, but merely the result of him playing centrally rather than on the wing.