Why would he do that ? I'm glad he is sticking to his way of thinking and not exactly to fans and media.
Donny Van De Beek / LOAN to Everton
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No, he doesn't. Doubt it's even been 3 times this season that he's come in for Bruno.
What does 5 min cameos have to do with anything? These 5 min cameos do not do anything neither for Bruno, nor for Donny. They're pointless. As far as him "outright replacing Bruno" under Carrick, it was only for one game. And from what I remember he was subbed off in the second half. Then he was promptly benched. Some "replacing" that is.
Yes, he did well, but how many times this season Bruno has stank the pitch and gotten no repercussion for it? There's been matches were he has given the ball away like 30 times, ruining our every attack.
Enough with this shit. Ajax fans here have explained that Donny is fully capable of playing in hte midfield and for a long time that was his role. You can't be an Ajax player and be a rigid donkey. The philosophy of Ajax's academy is total football.
It seems you're unable to get that even when Fred or McTominay are suspended, Donny still doesn't get to play. That role usually goes to Matic, sometimes even Mata. How many times this season has Donny come for either McTominay or Fred? Both of them have missed plenty of games this season.
I tire of this conversation, really. It's so pointlesse. Has Donny gotten enough chances to prove if he is good or not good enough? No. Then there is no point in further discussion. We can argue all month whether Ralf is right or not, but it won't make a difference. Neither you or I know if he is good enough or anything because you can hardly rate a player on 5 minutes cameo every 5 games or so. And until we know or a new manager comes in, we'll just have to suffer getting dominated by relegation fodder with McFred in the midfield.
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For what it’s worth, I agree with you. An even half-firing VDB would have outperformed Matic in the final 35 minutes against Villa - any competent midfielder would have. I don’t understand VDB’s lack of playing time.
I think the fact we’re not seeing him do it, with the fans chanting and all the other stuff speaks massive volumes. He’s not going to do it for the sake of it. He clearly feels we’ve got a better chance of winning when the fella isn’t on the pitch.
Wrong. I've seen him play for Ajax and Holland over the years. He's not good enough to be a United starter, neither is Klaassen and I don't need to watch him play in a United shirt to make that statement. I do think if he had gone to a different club (like Chelsea?) he'd have been a very good squad player. He's definitely been misused but he's been a poor fit in Ole's and Ralf's philosophy. I don't think he's any worse than McTominay in the CM position and he's definitely better than Matic in that role after his legs go past 60 minutes, but really it's up to him he hasn't been able to convince 3 different managers he can play that role better.
And I'm not going to shout off the rooftops for one CM option to play over the other when all of them are clearly not good enough to start for us and the difference is very very small (or he'd prove us wrong and underperform, also possible).
DVB has had plenty of time to prove himself. He hasn’t grabbed his opportunities, and that’s essential in order to succeed in a very competitive league.
It’s not to late for DVB to succeed, but in the end it’s all up to himself. No other to blame!
It’s not to late for DVB to succeed, but in the end it’s all up to himself. No other to blame!
There need to be something we can not see. Maybe he is shite during training sessions, his attitude or something else we can not see. There is zero chance that he is treated like that without a reason by different managers. If it was only one I would say it can be something personal but it is clear that Donny is not gonna make it here. Just let him go ffs and move on.
I think Ole actually said he did great in training
Probably very lazy to suggest that if United are so keen to keep him, perhaps the next manager is someone who likes him, or perhaps even knows him well.
Maybe he was just protecting him by not telling the truth about him publicly? What other reason can a manager have to treat him like that?
I'm wondering myself he must have fecked someone over high up the chain. His work ethic at Ajax was second to none so I highly doubt it's that. At this point he should just leave as it's high career going down the drain and United is losing money on him fast
Mate its nothing to do with the fact he is as slow as a week in the jail, or as weak as a new born baby…I think this sums up the fanbase to be honest.
Because he isn't a fast runner he's a bad footballer??
there's been many good players over the years that can't dribble past players well.
Instead of looking at his negatives, look how he created space for himself in the box for a shot that nearly scored us the winner?
Our fans prefer runners over footballers, now wonder we've got to the state we are now.
I just think for 40 million we should be seeing something, and if we class him dragging the ball back in the box in the 90th min as progress then you are right as a club we are in bother.
The biggest shock for me was that Ralf said he wanted to play to force his way back into the Holland squad for the World Cup, Newcastle offered to take him on loan, which would have given him game time to show United what he can do in the PL, and help his cause for a recall to the Dutch squad!!! Why you think he didn’t take that offer?
They probably want a permanent exit at a reasonable fee considering he's still young and the best offers are loans. Its two managers in a row, with different outlooks and backgrounds that have marginalized him, so I can't see any good reason to think he suits the league or the club.
Partially disagree, he hasn't always taken his opportunities but he's had far less game time than someone like Sancho who hasn't set the world alight.
Ralf is taking the same approach towards VdB as Ole did. Keep him as a last resort option in case something goes wrong (i.e. ti ve a overy safe side). Rangnick does not care about Donny's career. Unless we manage to get ETH, I doubt that Van de Beek will be playing for us next season. Disaster of a transfer for both parties, so much time and money lost.
Because he isn't rated.
Can we stop with the "mistreatment" narrative? He doesn't start because he isn't rated. Being benched isn't mistreatment.
Can we stop with the not good enough narrative? Because your argument is totally wrong. He isn't being mistreated because he's benched. He's mistreated because he isn't allowed to leave while being benched and instead lied to about his game time in the future just to trying to keep him happy enough to not walkout like Henderson
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So what was the point to buy him? Another panic buy? If he is rated lower than McT, Fred, Nemanja Grandpa and Mata than he is really shite or we have shite scouts.
How do we know he's not allowed to leave? Ralf prefers to keep him and that's all that's been said. It's reported he declined a loan to Newcastle.
Yes the previous manager mistreated him by promising him game time and blocking his loan move. We're talking about now though and the bloke I responded to specifically mentioned his current treatment (not starting games), which isn't some sadistic treatment.
It's not some sort of out there narrative. I've seen him play for years now. It's my opinion. Koeman also benched for De Roon, apparantly I'm not the only one that thinks he isn't guaranteed starter material for a top top club.
Why do we keep changing the topic?
It was a pointless signing because we are idiots, not that there is anything wrong with VDB per se, (although I never thought he was a special player to begin with, just a decent one). He didnt fit Ole's style of play and he doesn't seem to fit Ralf's either (he pretty much has no position that suits his best attributes in his 4-2-2-2). I don't disagree with you there, I'm just telling you there is no ulterior motive for him not starting games, other than other manager's have different preferences.
But again, that doesn't change the obvious. That VDB isn't starting because he isn't rated by the mangers/doesn't fit with how they like to line up. It's not rocket science.
I think wheter or not he's good enough is really not the discussion anymore is it? Its become irrelevant. Ole didn't play him, Ralf isnt playing him so he should (be allowed to) leave.
They literally said he couldn't leave as we needed him.
What Ralf meant was, we will keep him on the bench in case of a freak COVID emergency. Until then he will get 5 minutes here and there.
Maybe if our midfield was Kroos/Modric I could understand, but both Fred/Mctominay have poor games at times, and Matic is a breathing statue of liberty. There's simply no convincing me DVB is worse in midfield than those guys.
The simple fact is he just doesn't get the minutes he deserves. For a £40m signing it's madness how little he plays.
We should just sell him and buy somebody else that they will trust.
One of Ten Hag's Ajax best players is not good enough to play for this United. Okay, that's just nonsense.
He hasn't been able to convince 3 managers, 2 of which have failed to deliver and one who is in the process of failing to deliver. Wow, what can I say in the face of such an argument? You're acting like he has failed to impress Klopp and Guardiola or something.
Exactly, the same as hearing our scouts aren’t sure about Zakaria. Well based on our signings, I don’t think I’m sure on our scouts.
Agree. And it isn’t DVB’s fault United bought wrong player; a player United didn’t need (ref. bruno) and likely doesn’t fit our style of play very well.
Tragic waste of both money and talent. It’s still a fair chance DVB will be a success in Italy, Germany or Spain. Right know I don’t think PL is the right league for him.
No it isn't.
"One of his best players" is a massive stretch. De LIgt, De Jong, Ziyech, Onana, Tadic were all better players from the same team. That's more like middle of the pack.
Haller is one of their most important players and he was a West Ham flop. The list is endless. Klaassen, Blind, etc.
This pretty much sums up why we aren't challenging for the title anymore. The only way a midfielder should require strength and speed is when your tactics aren't good. Positioning and pressing > speed and strength.
You don't have to counter if you stop the opponent from attacking in the first place. But we play like we're a midtable team at best. So we require midfielders with speed and strength(which is odd, because VDB isn't weaker than Fred and not that much slower than the other midfielders).
Why not focus on making sure we can control the midfield and thus the game, like top team as we should be, instead of trying keep going in the horrible way of playing we do now
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Seems like both Ole and Ralf are dead set on Donny only being able to play as a #10 which is simply not true. While his qualities are probably more suited to being further up the pitch he can play as a #6 as well. He has said so himself. But when Fred keeps being played ahead of you it's time to pack your bags and go.
Criminal how we sign a guy like this and make him rot at the bench.
Criminal how we sign a guy like this and make him rot at the bench.
Just not good enough.
Knocks back the chance to play regular with Newcastle because they are in a relegation dog fight, to stay at United and get zero game time. Anybody think he doesn’t back himself in the PL? Because thats what it looks like, go to Newcastle play every week and show Ralf what you can do!!
not that crazy, like i said a few post ago. Midfield players for midtable team(and lower) do need speed for midfielders. Because they aren't going to dominate possession. So Newcastle isn't going to be a good match either.
There's no top PL side for which VdB would start in CM. At a stretch you could mention City - Gundogan -, but City effectively only play 1 CM these days(actually 3, but 2 of those are the nominal wingbacks)
Neither would McTominay, Fred and Matic.
I could see Van De Beek getting a start now and then (especially now) at Liverpool. To be sure, they are the only "top PL side" that plays a proper 4-3-3, (with City being a special case as you mention)
As an attacking midfielder, sure. He's a great attacking midfielder
Well, yes, or as an 8. Right, you meant as a CM as in Utd's two man midfield, true. But again, it's connected to the formation. He got bought by a club who then decided to not have a type of organization that includes his role..
They do have his role. It's the role their best player plays...
They signed him for depth, he's pretty much being used exactly as they thought he would, if not as much as they thought he would. A Bruno backup who can cover at CM in emergency
You can't tell me he won't do a better job than Matic for us. He's supposed to "not be up to it physically for the Prem" but Matic is? Does he have a wooden leg or something?
Think he was bought with the expectation that Pogba would leave and then due to Covid noone afforded Pogba.
And Bruno might play the same position, but certainly not the same role, no? Or rather, van de Beek is a very different player to Bruno.
I'd still trust old man Matic more. VDB isn't a number 6, he certainly isn't one that could survive in the PL.
Ralf and Ole seemingly clearly agree.
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