Ralf is fair enough. Ole bought him!
Donny Van De Beek / LOAN to Everton
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He may have bought him (or had him bought for him) but he clearly never really saw him as a 6, or a Matic replacement or option in that part of the pitch. Rightfully so judging by everything I've ever seen of the lad. He'd fail miserably playing that role in the PL. It's not for him.
Problem is Pogba has been out for long periods since Donny arrived and hasn't featured in his place. We've also had multiple midfield injuries or suspensions and he still doesn't get a game.
True. Because Pogba's place was already precarious before, and @giorno is right that since Bruno came he was the player to dictate the midfield architecture (and necessitate two &s behind him) so Van De Beek could mainly be backup for him.
It just seems like a distinct lack of imagination that no setup could be found (didn't have to be the most used setup) where Donny would be utilized, especially since such setups were found for Pogba.
Saw the reports and it’s pretty much what I thought was the issue with VDB, he’s just not physical enough to play PL football. If he can’t even do it against the lads in training he’s got no chance on match day.
With that being said, why the feck is he still at the club then? Sell him while he still has some value and people remember him tearing it up against Madrid away. This “let’s wait and see” approach is piss poor squad management.
With that being said, why the feck is he still at the club then? Sell him while he still has some value and people remember him tearing it up against Madrid away. This “let’s wait and see” approach is piss poor squad management.
They play the same role, attacking mid/shadow striker. They're both final 3rd and box types of player. With very different skillsets of course, but still. And defensively they're similar, Donny is better but not to an extent that would justify playing him over Bruno
i don't see any reason why they can't play together though, besides Sancho/Greenwood/Pogba
I spoke to some fans who have good seats at OT and they've said the same in that he lacks the physicality.
He must be very rusty now though, no match fitness for more than a year. I remember his first few months here and he was up to speed and had good games and a positive impact, he slotted straight in and got us moving against Newcastle away in a brilliant sub appearance, It was 1-1 and the last 10 minutes with his forward play and drive we got three goals and won 1-4. I saw a very fit and sharp player fresh from Ajax that was inexplicably dropped and then left to rot after the Leipzig home game he did very well in. The odd appearance he did have months later he was poor and looked lost. In one of this early interviews he was actually saying he can't understand United's slow build up because in training it's very fast, you can see in his early matches, he's looking to move the ball fast and wanting the players around to play quickly. One of the big criticisms of United in general back then was how slow our play was. At this point in time Donny in 2020 I'd say was ahead of many of our players.
I think many of our midfielders struggle to cover ground or are more attack minded, Fred in particular struggles to run. We had a chance for an easy break on Villa in the cup game with Fred on the ball but he couldn't run with the ball like a normal player. Prime Matic aside, they all could do better in a three man midfield so they don't have to cover ground and can close the space and help each other. I think Donny, if he had a run of games and used in a 3 could be really useful.
Our best formation might be a 442 diamond or 4-1-2-1-2 or 433 in simple terms. The match we beat Leipzig 5-0 we did play the diamond. It's odd how we never saw it again. We had Matic Fred and Pogba in midfield with Donny at the diamond and two strikers, Donny did a lot of work back and forth passing and pressing quickly, we had very good control of the game. I guess the killer for Donny was Bruno came on with Rashford and did better in getting more goals but really the point is we had a midfield 3 and Donny did the work of a player doing 90 mins in 67 mins.
From BBC report Donny was singled out
"Netherlands international Donny van de Beek was given his third start, after two in the Carabao Cup, and the midfielder was steady and tidy, completing 89% of his 28 passes and winning the ball back six times in his 67 minutes on the pitch."
It was his best match for us probably for hard working press beating and quick passing.
During the game there were other stats highlighting his performance and how much work he did. it seemed to go unnoticed by Ole. The whole match setup seemed to and it's what we've been missing for 5-6 years we've had Pogba to today. We're crying out for a 3 man midfield, we had one with Herrera but some you'll be surprised to know that the 433 was done by Carrick and McKenna, Ole took a back seat in his early months and collapsed when he started implementing his own ideas and have been wildly up and down since.
I watched Ajax's run in the CL, again Donny was excellent in doing a lot of leg work in midfield to help De Jong and then joining attacks. I know he can work in a 3 at least at the top level. Let's be honest we play a two man mostly for too long but none of them can do it well bar a prime Matic. We've had a technical player from Ajax getting on for 2 seasons yet still insist on struggling with a crud two against 3.
To get control you play like this and it's very adaptable with Bruno and all our players Sancho Ronaldo etc. In this match we had Rashford come on for Greenwood and score 3, Bruno came on for Donny and McTom came on for Matic. Donny can play where Fred is, you can have a McTom Fred Donny trio behind Bruno.
Ralf even noted the problem in the second to last game but then did his best Ole impression and watched a 2-0 lead slip. Villa dominated us for large parts of both games. It was crying out for a change midway in the second half.
He must be very rusty now though, no match fitness for more than a year. I remember his first few months here and he was up to speed and had good games and a positive impact, he slotted straight in and got us moving against Newcastle away in a brilliant sub appearance, It was 1-1 and the last 10 minutes with his forward play and drive we got three goals and won 1-4. I saw a very fit and sharp player fresh from Ajax that was inexplicably dropped and then left to rot after the Leipzig home game he did very well in. The odd appearance he did have months later he was poor and looked lost. In one of this early interviews he was actually saying he can't understand United's slow build up because in training it's very fast, you can see in his early matches, he's looking to move the ball fast and wanting the players around to play quickly. One of the big criticisms of United in general back then was how slow our play was. At this point in time Donny in 2020 I'd say was ahead of many of our players.
I think many of our midfielders struggle to cover ground or are more attack minded, Fred in particular struggles to run. We had a chance for an easy break on Villa in the cup game with Fred on the ball but he couldn't run with the ball like a normal player. Prime Matic aside, they all could do better in a three man midfield so they don't have to cover ground and can close the space and help each other. I think Donny, if he had a run of games and used in a 3 could be really useful.
Our best formation might be a 442 diamond or 4-1-2-1-2 or 433 in simple terms. The match we beat Leipzig 5-0 we did play the diamond. It's odd how we never saw it again. We had Matic Fred and Pogba in midfield with Donny at the diamond and two strikers, Donny did a lot of work back and forth passing and pressing quickly, we had very good control of the game. I guess the killer for Donny was Bruno came on with Rashford and did better in getting more goals but really the point is we had a midfield 3 and Donny did the work of a player doing 90 mins in 67 mins.
From BBC report Donny was singled out
"Netherlands international Donny van de Beek was given his third start, after two in the Carabao Cup, and the midfielder was steady and tidy, completing 89% of his 28 passes and winning the ball back six times in his 67 minutes on the pitch."
It was his best match for us probably for hard working press beating and quick passing.
During the game there were other stats highlighting his performance and how much work he did. it seemed to go unnoticed by Ole. The whole match setup seemed to and it's what we've been missing for 5-6 years we've had Pogba to today. We're crying out for a 3 man midfield, we had one with Herrera but some you'll be surprised to know that the 433 was done by Carrick and McKenna, Ole took a back seat in his early months and collapsed when he started implementing his own ideas and have been wildly up and down since.
I watched Ajax's run in the CL, again Donny was excellent in doing a lot of leg work in midfield to help De Jong and then joining attacks. I know he can work in a 3 at least at the top level. Let's be honest we play a two man mostly for too long but none of them can do it well bar a prime Matic. We've had a technical player from Ajax getting on for 2 seasons yet still insist on struggling with a crud two against 3.
To get control you play like this and it's very adaptable with Bruno and all our players Sancho Ronaldo etc. In this match we had Rashford come on for Greenwood and score 3, Bruno came on for Donny and McTom came on for Matic. Donny can play where Fred is, you can have a McTom Fred Donny trio behind Bruno.
Ralf even noted the problem in the second to last game but then did his best Ole impression and watched a 2-0 lead slip. Villa dominated us for large parts of both games. It was crying out for a change midway in the second half.
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Weird how all the reports on his lack of physicality are coming out now. As if we didn't scout him and notice he isn't a powerhouse runner. Feels a little bit more like a reason being leaked to journos to hide the real reason he isn't playing. Can he be any less of a runner than Matic?!
He is a runner though. Not a fast one, but he is a runner. He had the highest distance covered per 90 mins at Ajax in the 2019 CL run season and in the few full(ish) matches he played for us, his distance covered is also quite high.
He actually covered the most distance at HT in the last game he started too.
The 'he lacks physicality' is an absolute lie. He might not be a speedy runner, but he moves around plenty. It's not eye catching to the average fan like a Rashford running at full speed though, so they won't notice it.
Every time DVB plays he makes a good number of duels, tackles and interceptions.
People have clearly decided this is the reason he doesn't play, so they've stuck with it. Maybe that's exactly what our coaching staff think - but from the evidence on the pitch he is no worse than anybody else.
To make it even more stupid we keep playing Matic over him? because he's experienced? or a lumbering giant? don't come at me with being a good CDM
he's awful.It is. People that believe it are just desperate to have a reason and believe whatever shite a journo makes up.
He's bigger than Fred and faster than McSlow (and just like either has an impeccable work rate).
Those two have not exactly lit up the league with their managerial acumen.
Again, VDB is not a physically good enough runner to play in the Prem but Matic is? I find that hard to believe.
Mata 2.0
This is definitely one of the strangest player situations I have seen at United.
Seems that no one really knows what the feck is going on here.
Seems that no one really knows what the feck is going on here.
Just keeping him seems pointless
I am not sure we are at this point so much as it being a case of nobody else seems to want him. The only widely reported link this window was Newcastle on loan which he apparently rejected due to their league position which if true is bizarre considering his lack of game time.
With Ragnick confirming the change to 4-3-3, he surely has to get a chance.
Assuming McTominay/Matic cover the #6, he'd be competing with Bruno & Fred for one of the #8s.
Assuming McTominay/Matic cover the #6, he'd be competing with Bruno & Fred for one of the #8s.
He won’t start. It’ll be Matic holding, McTominay and Fred ahead of him, Bruno wide right and Sancho/Elanga/Rashford left with Cavani or Ronaldo leading the line.
I can’t see him being selected for Holland unless he can secure a loan move in the next few weeks. If he stays he can forget about the WC.
Wc not until winter so even a summer move would put him back in contention i think
50 up for Donny! We should retire the 88 shirt number in homage.
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We play a 4-3-3 now. How does DVB not get any game time?
It is not as if McT or Fred are WC as box to boxers. I mean give him a chance or let him go but honestly this makes no sense to me.
It is not as if McT or Fred are WC as box to boxers. I mean give him a chance or let him go but honestly this makes no sense to me.
It still looks like a 4231 rather than 433 which means we are playing 2 defensive mids and Bruno in cam.
With Donny, I’ve just accepted that even though he looks decent in the small spells he has when he comes on there must be something the managers are seeing in training which makes them reluctant to start him. I heard on one of the Utd fan channels who mentioned it’s apparently the feeling in Utd coaching staff that he struggles with the pace of the game and isn’t suited or up to speed with the league. No idea anymore.
It's going to be a bit of 
moment if he ends up doing brilliantly at Palace. Although I assume he'd be played as a 10 there? Which he's just not going to get to do here with any sort of regularity.
moment if he ends up doing brilliantly at Palace. Although I assume he'd be played as a 10 there? Which he's just not going to get to do here with any sort of regularity.Loan will be a chance for us to find out if he can be effective in the Prem over a proper run of games.
Doesn't Gallagher play as a 10 for Palace?It's going to be a bit of
Reading in that article, started 4 games for United in 18 months since he arrived, fecking hell what a waste of money from the player’s and club’s perspective.
So Palace now have a better midfield than United?
if i were him i'd be agitating for a transfer. what a waste of a couple seasons now
Looks that way. But six months at Palace could help him make the step up.
He makes no sense for Palace
He plays like their best player, in the same role. Just why...
He plays like their best player, in the same role. Just why...
Oh yeah of course. I know who I'd trust more out of the two, so yeah strange move by Palace.
Unless they're actually going to play him as a 6, which would be fascinating to witness. Because I simply don't think he can cope in that position in the PL.
By taking a player that can't get into our starting 11?? Not sure how that works
They had one even before VDB
By taking a player that can't get into our starting 11?? Not sure how that works
Well I assume it was a tongue in cheek comment, but perhaps they feel that VdB is simply better than what we have in our starting 11 and the fact that he isn’t playing doesn’t really factor into it. The manager(s) can get things wrong.
I honestly don’t know what the issue with VdB is. I was very excited when we announced his transfer but the last 2 years have been a mystery. Perhaps we will only find out after he leaves permanently.
I still hold out some hope that he can turn it around. A loan move to another club in the league would be interesting if we are intent on not playing him.
The expectations at Palace are completely different to United, so if he did what would be considered a serviceable level at United, that could be very good for Crystal Palace. Palace have had players like McArthur, McCarthy and Kouyaté for years, so Van de Beek would be a big step up on that calibre of player, even out of position.
They outplayed us with Tom Cleverley in their midfieldBy taking a player that can't get into our starting 11?? Not sure how that works
Tom Cleverley has never played for Palace
Who Palace?
I think you have the wrong club mate! We beat Palace with a member of our so called poor midfield scoring that day!!
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