The fact he didn’t start yesterday suggests Ten Hag himself thinks he needs different players around to get the best out of him. Maybe he features more if we sign De Jong.
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In what role, he's never getting ahead of the likes of Fernandes, Eriksen and even Fred. What does he actually do?
I think as a reference to whether or not Donny can play or not, his champions league experiences are more to go by than a 45 min friendly. Yea for sure he was invisible yesterday and will need to step up. I just can't understand the lack of support when fred has played a huge majority of games since his transfer at a laughable standard. In fact yesterday he scores a worldie but aside from that was shit again. When does Donny get a run of games in a suitable position
Even on Fred bad days he shows, we can't judge Donny by a handle of Champions league games at Ajax, don't forget we found Fred in the Champions league too.
What does Donny do?
I honestly don’t know, but I think he’s the type of player you need a plan for, like one part in a three part midfield that functions as a unit. On his own he’s completely lost and won’t get in over any of the players we currently have because they can at least do a job independent of who’s next to them
Is he worth all that planning though, and after we get that quality out would it be better than the best of Bruno or the version of Fred we saw under Rangnick?
Donny can't do much unless he gets a run of games. Fred has had far to many chances even if he shows what good is it when he gives it away. Or at best plays it back. Fecking droll football but his stats look good.
I very much doubt it. You need to fully commit to the way Ajax played circa 2019 to get the best out of him I would imagine. For us that would mean most of our players would be less impactful, unless Ten Hag can find some sort of fluid solution to the disjointed squad he has. I think he ultimately will but it might take a season (like it did at Ajax) before he lands on something that works for the whole squad.
If he is to feature more often, McTomminay, Fred, Bruno all need to think more as a unit and learn a system first.
When a player needs so many excuses it simply because he isn't good enough, this is his third year at the club and under his manager so this excuse should die off by November at most.
True but do you feel Ten hag would have played DVB in his 2019 team if he had Bruno and Eriksen I don't.
I think at best DVB is a back up here and possibly would be gone by February.
This entire paragraph is false.
Ziyech has looked quite good whenever he does play, but he is a winger for a manager that often plays with wingbacks. He was signed for less than 35 million sterling I believe.
Tadic was alright for Southampton?
De Ligt is one of the best CBs in Serie A.
De Jong who is "finding his feet in La Liga" somehow has 150 apps, most of them starts for Barcelona.
All these players were better than VDB, both at Ajax and abroad.
Yeah, I constantly see on here how Tadić was bad at Southampton, err no, he was their best player. One more thing that proves lots of Caf has gold fish memory.
Tadic wasn't bad at Southampton, but one wouldn't expect the level he showed in the UCL, it was like Mane Southampton- Liverpool rise.
Yep, he went next level at Ajax but he was still great at Saints.
That's the beautiful thing about ETH, I hope he can get that out of Rashford, Martial, Sancho.
He scored 38 goals in a season at Ajax. He was nothing special at Southampton.
He was their best player, not special at league level maybe. And I constantly watched him for club and Serbia, I know how good he is. No numbers and stats can replace that.
4 league starts in that period. Hard to produce when you're not played regularly.
Ziyech plenty of times has looked like a player who is not a good fit for the Premier League and might be leaving soon, Tadic is a good player, but he scored 38 goals in that season with Ajax and has been one of the best players in the Netherlands since then, no where near that level when he was in the Premier League.
De Ligt has been ordinary in the Serie A, nothing to write home about as far as I'm concerned. De Jong is fantastic, but he hasn't performed to the level he was hyped up to and is yet to really stamp his authority at Barca.
These players are good players of course, but they have performed no where near the level they did that season in that Ajax team consistently. The point is that considering they were all rated higher than Van de Beek yet couldn't sustain the same level, then Van de Beek's performances in that Ajax team should be nothing to point to as a reason he could suddenly become a good player for us. Until he could start getting on the ball and moving it more than a few metres in a Manchester United shirt, he is a mediocre footballer.
I didn't say otherwise.
So your point with Tadic is, he was nowhere near scoring 40 goals in the premier league? That was a shock for you? OMG, does that mean the Eredivisie is a weaker league than the EPL?
De Ligt hasn't been "ordinary", he has been a good player for Juve. Is it a surprise that an exceptional Eredivisie player is merely "good" in Serie A? If you google best defenders in Serie A or best centre backs he makes every top 10 you'll find. Personally I'd have him behind Koulibaly and the iIter lads, but at Inter they play a back 3.
I can go on and on, but I still dont know the point you're trying to make.
You expected the Ajax players to win ballon d'ors based off how they did at Ajax?
When the team is dysfunctional everybody tends to look bad. You don't need need to trash other players from the squad that were trying to do their job under difficult circumstances to defend Van de Beek. Majority here support the team and are not just specific-players-fans. I'm sure things are going to get better for everybody, Donny wil get his chances and will do wel. Maybe becoming a starter at some point of the season.
Good players will perform most places they go to, and probably take their games to the next level, or at least match the required level. De Jong is a good player, so is Tadic, and they have performed relatively well in the last two leagues they have played in, with a noticeable drop in performances in the stronger leagues.So your point with Tadic is, he was nowhere near scoring 40 goals in the premier league? That was a shock for you? OMG, does that mean the Eredivisie is a weaker league than the EPL?
De Ligt hasn't been "ordinary", he has been a good player for Juve. Is it a surprise that an exceptional Eredivisie player is merely "good" in Serie A? If you google best defenders in Serie A or best centre backs he makes every top 10 you'll find. Personally I'd have him behind Koulibaly and the iIter lads, but at Inter they play a back 3.
I can go on and on, but I still dont know the point you're trying to make.
You expected the Ajax players to win ballon d'ors based off how they did at Ajax?
I do not expect players to perform in the Premier League, the same way they performed in the Eredivisie. Players have performed like world beaters in lower leagues, but completely flopped when they moved. It is fine, they are probably not good enough to make the step up.
So the point is that it makes little sense to say that Van de Beek played this way or that way in the Eredivisie in 2019 so should get a consistent run in our team by default based on that. Until Van de Beek shows that he is capable of playing well enough at Premier League level, then his performances in the Eredivisie means feck all and doesn't entitle him to any run of games.
The Premier League and the Eredivisie are not at the same level, as the contrast in the level of performances by his ex mates De Ligt, Tadic, Ziyech and De Jong at Ajax shows, compared to their performances in their current or former leagues. It is not about Tadic, Ziyech or De Ligt, but about Van de Beek. If you still don't get the point, then I have nothing else to say.
I agree with everything, but this is fairly obvious stuff. I just think you were being too critical of the Ajax players performances abroad. It's a commonly echoed sentiment on here that they have been flops and I disagree with that.
So when he came on he was on the periphery of the game and not very involved which has almost always been the case when he has played as an AM/Bruno stand in. The main thing I was dissappointed by was our 4th goal where Pellistri and Amad were breaking and he didnt bust a gut to get forward and provide an extra option around the box. Thats what I'm expecting from him and he didnt provide it. He's got to be better at taking his chances to have an influience.
The problem with VDB is that he's not a player that will stand out, so when he gets limited chances in a team that doesn't play well, he'll never make a difference. He's basically a catalyst. He'll make a well playing team even better, but in a team that doesn't play well he'll be a bit invisible.
The second half against Liverpool was a good example. The defenders couldn't get the ball to the midfield, so they yeeted the ball to the forwards, who in turn couldn't keep hold of the ball. So VDB couldn't do anything. Bruno would leave his position to get the ball but would be equally useless in that team, but seemingly more involved so better according to most fans. VDB pretty much did what he was supposed to do in the 5 times he got the ball, but the pass backwards to make space for an attacker is rather useless if the player he passes to doesn't know what to do. So in the main team with Ten Hags system i'm pretty confident he'll do fine.
The second half against Liverpool was a good example. The defenders couldn't get the ball to the midfield, so they yeeted the ball to the forwards, who in turn couldn't keep hold of the ball. So VDB couldn't do anything. Bruno would leave his position to get the ball but would be equally useless in that team, but seemingly more involved so better according to most fans. VDB pretty much did what he was supposed to do in the 5 times he got the ball, but the pass backwards to make space for an attacker is rather useless if the player he passes to doesn't know what to do. So in the main team with Ten Hags system i'm pretty confident he'll do fine.
What you’re describing is a not very good midfielder. In fact the sort of midfielder that no teams wants.
Depends on the system. It's a type of midfielder that really works in a Ten Hag system, he knows how to press and on top of that he can score goals
No excuses then when he spends the season on the bench?
I don't think he'll be on the bench the whole season. McFred will struggle a lot if De Jong comes here. It'll be a lot of quick one-two passes in triangles. Donny is made for that. You could already see it happening in the first half against Liverpool. This'll be the future for United, unless it fails massively and the De Jong deal fails
It's a type that most top teams have. We have a way to go before we can accommodate that though.
i know, but at least Ten Hag is working on it, also De Jong and Martinez will help massively with that if they both come, so does Eriksen.
He sits on the bench mostly and takes an unnecessary amount of stick for it
Because fans hype him up, same with Bailly. People are fed up with fans hyping up a player who has never had a good spell at this level
It could be an issue of him simply having such a terrible time the last few years that he needs a month or two under someone like Ten Hag to get him back into his rhythm.
He's not had a spell, never mind a good one. Fans are just a bit miffed that Mctominay has played every game while it seems fairly obvious that Donny is a better player.
Well it aint obvious at all. If it was, he would play. ETH will be the third manager who plays him less than Scott.
That says more about Donny than Scott McTominay
If it's so obvious why is McTominay on the A team and Donny on the B team? And do you think ETH will magically pick Donny above Scotty when he puts in performances like this?
I'm not a big fan of either footballer. They're both really limited.
He's far better technically, far better. He's even a better tackler and presser than Mctominay.
Even with the little amount of game time he's been given he's got better stats than Mctominay for pressures and tackles.
He is also hopeless as a CM. His positioning is maybe the worst in the league. He is already behind Scott and Fred. And we're looking at an upgrade on them, meaning Donny will be 4/5th choice. Maybe in Bruno's position he can do something, but if Eriksen is coming he will be 3rd choice there.
If Donny was better than Scott, he would play. How difficult is it?
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