I think one of Eriksen/Donny will play with one of Fred/McTominay moving forward
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I don't know about Eriksen, I always considered him as an attacking player, not sure if it makes sense to play deep. In our system (Ole & co) the midfielders were clearly told not to influence the game, as build-up play was going through the wings or directly from the backline to attackers. Under this system it makes more sense to have players like Fred/van de Beek in midfield (doing the simple job) rather than Eriksen, who would be more effective higher up the pitch - that might change now.
Looking by preseason games, it certainly looks possible Hannibal and Garner are ahead of van de Beek in the pecking order for midfield. But I want to see what happens when the real football starts, I expect us to struggle massively in midfield with current options no matter who plays.
To me, it looks like he lacks acceleration and physicality to play in the PL. He does a flick and a turn expecting to gain a yard on his defender, but he’s always closed down so quickly. As if he’s ten years older than his age.
If Ten Hag doesn’t give him more game time then he’s an hypocrite, wasn’t he moaning when Solskjær wasn’t playing him? He was saying he should be given more game time.
He has to earn it.
Of course… as he did when ole was here.
I know he said DvB not getting mins was a mortal sin, but hasn't he given him 45mins in every game so far.
Was his best game against Palace but they were woeful. I am in two minds - he often only gets outings with disjointed reserve teams so that likely hinders him but also it’s still up to him to impress whatever team he’s put in and he hasn’t……
Make or break season for him though - if he can’t do well under the manager thaT he last played well for, he isn’t gonna make it here
Make or break season for him though - if he can’t do well under the manager thaT he last played well for, he isn’t gonna make it here
Ye the point I was making and I said IF he doesn’t give him game time. Just curious because he’s playing mctominay and Fred still With the first team which to me shows that will be the premier league squad on the first game.
No it's not, Malacia also looked level above when he played with first team, you can't throw him with kids and then slack him off for not playing good, I mean you can, but it's stupid.
He looked much better with first team, had much bigger impact in 15 mins than McTominay whole first half.
You might not win much and functioning well playing with kids. But you can still shine.
Managers would weight differently if you're playing with kids. You're not expected to tiki Taka but some aspect would still show. Like awareness, fitness level, positioning, pass accuracy etc.
If he doesn't perform well under Ten Hag then there is really no hope for him in the highest level.
I really want to root for him. Even with his cameo and pointless subs for us, I could see how smart he is in his link up play and it'd be shame if it''s wasted this season too
I really want to root for him. Even with his cameo and pointless subs for us, I could see how smart he is in his link up play and it'd be shame if it''s wasted this season too
This is like another Shinji Kagawa thread all over again.
Not even sure what his best position is though I trust ETH does. Hopefully he can at least prove a decent squad player when called upon. There's definatley a decent player in him but whether he can establish himself in a MF with Bruno, Fred, Eriksen and De Jong/another MF is difficult to see. Maybe we cut our loses on him?
Not even sure what his best position is though I trust ETH does. Hopefully he can at least prove a decent squad player when called upon. There's definatley a decent player in him but whether he can establish himself in a MF with Bruno, Fred, Eriksen and De Jong/another MF is difficult to see. Maybe we cut our loses on him?
Yea its up to Van de Beek to displace Mctominay.
The last thing we need to be doing is getting rid of more midfielders.
He's best as a 10 or an 8. I personally prefer him as an 8 as he isn't quick enough to counter attack with the ball or win a race after a long ball.
His assist for Rashford against Palace perfectly sums him up. He's intelligent, he times his run well and knows where to position himself. He looks for the best chance of a goal which wasn't taking a selfish attempt at scoring, but passing to an easier team mate.
He works hard, does his fair share of tackling in midfield and his passing is solid if unspectaular. In this system though it doesn't need to be. It's all about moving it quickly and getting it to your danger men who can create.
He might find it hard to be a starter if Eriksen lives up to his ability and we sign De Jong, but he's still a very solid option to come on as a sub or play in rotation.
Shouldn’t take much. Zidane and savage should be in contention also.
I agree with everything you're saying but do you think he will want to be a bit part player for our squad for another season, which, at this moment of time it's looking like he will be in a world Cup year?
You could see how much better he was playing with the first team. He will be useful squad option with a set of qualities that are unique.
Agreed, but he'll need to show the level he did in his first 15 mins against palace was no fluke.
Well thats up to him to be able to prove he's worthy as a starter. I like him but he's got some competition.
He can go on loan somewhere if he wants but I doubt ETH will want him to leave. He should get way more minutes than Ole gave him that's for sure.
Surely a quality player will shine more when the players around him are not quite on the same level, ie, when you are playing with a team of youngsters or fringe players, you'd expect someone good enough for a first team start to stand out more?
At least I would have expected that. You could counter by saying the better players that you are playing with the easier the game will be, but Savage and Zidane seem to have stood out more whilst playing with the same players as VDB.
For me VDB hasn't shown anything in pre season that we didn't already know.
He's too passive and too eager to get rid of the ball, is always looking for a quick release when sometimes a touch into space would be better, but has his uses in the right areas.
You know that he's only eager to get rid of the ball because that's the way he was taught to play and this is most likely what Ten Hag will make us do. Always keep the ball moving instead of moving with the ball. Quick passes to make space for a teammate to receive and do the same. It's way faster and you could see the players already training on it(and failing for now
)But you still need to carry the ball at times, and your passes have to be progressive.You know that he's only eager to get rid of the ball because that's the way he was taught to play and this is most likely what Ten Hag will make us do. Always keep the ball moving instead of moving with the ball. Quick passes to make space for a teammate to receive and do the same. It's way faster and you could see the players already training on it(and failing for now
We’ll have to wait and see , but I personally believe he’ll improve massively under ETH.
This tells me you don't understand football. Not every pass has to be progressive. It's all about creating space, a quick pass backwards can make room for a pass forward because the player draws away an opponent. The problem is that before Ten Hag arrived most players didn't make use of that space, making VDB look like he only passes backwards. You'll see those patterns of play arrive very soon here at Utd, because i'll guarantee you that the midfielders will be asked to play that way.
All hail the armchair Pep, i don't understand football because I said DvB needs to attempt progressive passes when in two years you can hand pick the number of times he looks forward with the ball.
Who's talking about him playing Fernandes style hero ball?
Mad how excited people get over pointless friendless vs terrible teams. Wolves last season in the early league games gave me such a fright as they ran like demon's possessed and hawked everyone down. Players like Sancho could not cope with the pressure and hes actually good. Nothing we do now will replicate the intensity of league football and the hype in beating Man Utd. Its best to take NOTHING from these friendlies. certainly not making claims about how "useful" someone will be and how they will be used best over the course of the season.......
If you are on a higher level especially without the ball, and your team mates do not understand your thoughts or tactics . You look like rubbish cause he is a link up player. With the better players if they understand the thought behind it you shine
The friendly games though gives us a preview of what’s to come in the season… we get a look at the players fitness, the new style of play..: new signings, young players who could potentially break into the first team… you get quite a lot out of pre season games. I get what your saying though teams are more up for it when there’s things to play for and points to fight for… everyone ups there game when they come and play us. Hopefully with the new style of play though we should dominate games and blow teams away.
He defo needs to try and play it forward a lot more… think there’s a lot more to his game though, he likes creating space for others and he has clever movement.
All hail the keyboard warrior Trex. You don't understand football because you said that passes must be progressive. That indicates that you don't actually know the basics of football. All i did was explain to you why VDB passes back so much, because he's the only one who goes for triangle passing. If none of your teammates do that, the only player who does it looks bad. Same for pressing. If only 1 player is pressing, it's rather useless and the only pressing player looks like he's wasting energy but just running around.
Luckily Ten Hag is drilling triangle passing into the players as see by the training videos. So you'll see soon enough what the reason is VDB does that and how effective it can be.
And it's not even me praising VDB, because it's a fairly basic thing to be able to do, just explaining why.
Hopefully it will be how easy it is for Citeh
Last chance saloon time. Come on Donny!
I see your Ajax bias got you salty so I'm ending this conversation.
If he shows more its good for the team, will be another weapon which is always a good thing.
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Read this quote, DvB doesn't need you defending him this vehemently.
It would interest you to now that even Bruno in his previous seasons would have the majority of his passes per game sideways and backwards yet he was labeled too direct.
DvB is the exact opposite, every player play backwards and sideways but you need to know when to pass forward.
DvB ignores the option to do that way to often, even when the option is On and obvious to see, if you don't see that then yes you're wearing orange tinted glasses.
Oh man, you're going to hate this season then if you think that way. You might want to check out the training videos, because this is what it's all going to look like. That's why Martinez is going to be important, because midfielders are usually the middle part of the triangle, the one that passes backwards/sideways. It's going to be players like Martinez or De Jong when dropped backed that'll give the progressive passes. Not exclusively of course. McFred will have to assume a similar playing style to what VDB has now.
Yet they play ahead of him, such great logic.
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