[Matriac]

Mentioning number of games as a proof of someone being frozen out or not , imagine if he played 90 games for us x 1min per game, people would claim he is on the same level as starter.

OK, he has 26 appearances, and minutes enough to have played almost 12 full games. I know it's harder to get something done in 15min of a game than say a full half. But he has been taken off after 45 some times for not doing anything to affect the match.
In that time he has 1 goal and 1 assist.

You can of course argue that certain other players who start more often have struggled to contribute with G/A as well, but take Greenwood as an example, up until recently he didn't have a challenger on the right wing, it was some times Rashford if we wanted Martial on the left with Cavani up top. Recently James has looked fresher and has got a run, and hopefully more Amad soon. Martial plays CF when Cavani is injured/rested, as Greenwood needs to bulk up first, and in general has been lacking as mentioned above.

Bruno is usually the first on the team sheet, and the remaining 2 midfield places are the most contested in the team now when everyone is fit. If you aren't a regular starter it will be harder to get into the rotation, but he has gotten chances from start as well as impactsub, and so far he has failed to impress. He looks scared out there, and 9 out of 10 times he will send the pass straight back to who he got it from.

He has looked at his best when playing at the same time as Mata and other technical players that can sneak a ball to him as he runs past defenders, but most of the time he occupies space outside of the 16m, and almost always has his back to the goal.


Henderson gets his shot at a run now as David is out for 6 games, he has a chance to impress. Unless he screws up a lot it can get tough for De Gea to get back to the #1 spot.
When VdB has gotten chances he hasn't impressed.
I hope we can get a proper pre-season where he gets to feature a lot in the friendlies. Hopefully next season will be better for him as it would be nice to rest Bruno a bit more.

 

[Foxbatt]

He has played for better managers than Ole. He is an Ajax regular. He does not play the hit and run that United play. That is the problem. He should have never come to United. I am sure that he probably has more European club experience than most United players.

 

[Matriac]

He has played for better managers than Ole. He is an Ajax regular. He does not play the hit and run that United play. That is the problem. He should have never come to United. I am sure that he probably has more European club experience than most United players.

What does European club experience mean? Just that he played in another league than PL?
Playing for Ajax means they are pretty much a one horse race for the league and they get to feature in European cups pretty much every season by default.

Donny has 51 games in EL and CL, (6 of which are with us this season,) 14 of those are qualification games. So 37 total of group and playoffs.

Martial has 61 games, 4 qualifiers.

Rashford who is the same age as VdB has 47 games (0 qualifiers), and we were out of europe for a while.

Greenwood has 16 in 1.5.seasons. 17 if you count his 3min against PSG when he was 17.

Fred has 60, 8 of which are qualifiers.

Pogba has 79, 0 qualifiers.

Bruno has 40, 2 qualifiers.

McTominay is the only one around his agegroup and position who is less experienced in European cups with "only" 20 games.


I'll agree that he was used to playing in a different setup, so I hope that come next season with a full pre-season behind us he has adapted better to playing together with the rest of our team.

 

[Andersonson]

Well in that case no more complaining about Ole not being backed.

If he can't even manage to integrate a CL level squad player into the team, then we have no right to be moaning about lack of depth the way we did last season.

It took Fred 2 full seasons to become a viable option for us. He was also a CL level squad player. It took De Gea a couple of years too.

It took Salah 5 years to become good enough for the premier league.

I could go on and on. Its more to it than your simplistic view

 

[He'sRaldo]

It took Fred 2 full seasons to become a viable option for us. He was also a CL level squad player. It took De Gea a couple of years too.

It took Salah 5 years to become good enough for the premier league.

I could go on and on. Its more to it than your simplistic view

Not really. It took Fred a change of manager, a manager who was interested in playing him (although Ole didn't even really use Fred much until his hand was forced by injuries). Similar situation with Salah. Funny enough, Jose was manager in both cases.

I won't be surprised if it takes a change of manager for VdB to succeed.

 

[horsechoker]

I think Ole just signs players to ruin their careers.

Do we need white text?

 

[croadyman]

I think Ole just signs players to ruin their careers.

Do we need white text?

I just cannot see him getting a look in at this club whilst Ole is in this safety first mode and not willing to make changes

 

[Ace]

We don’t play with a three man midfield, Ole doesn’t like him in the double pivot, and Bruno plays every game at #10.

 

[croadyman]

We don’t play with a three man midfield, Ole doesn’t like him in the double pivot, and Bruno plays every game at #10.

Yeah Ole's tactics clear don't suit him at all and it shows

 

[Godfather]

So far one of our worst signings ever. Under Ole whose recruitment apparently has been so so good by some.

 

[Godfather]

We don’t play with a three man midfield, Ole doesn’t like him in the double pivot, and Bruno plays every game at #10.

Good thing we bought him then.

 

[croadyman]

So far one of our worst signings ever. Under Ole who's recruitment apparently has been so so good by some.

Yeah as I said in an earlier post we may as well have just kept the money spent on him and put towards a CB/RW/ST

 

[KirkDuyt]

If Donny ever becomes a valuable starter for United I will post a video of me eating a Donny vd Beek Ajax shirt.
Never. Gonna. Happen.

 

[Berbasbullet]

If Donny ever becomes a valuable starter for United I will post a video of me eating a Donny vd Beek Ajax shirt.
Never. Gonna. Happen.

Will you also give me a 100 pound?

 

[KirkDuyt]

Will you also give me a 100 pound?

A 100 pounds of what?

 

[Berbasbullet]

A 100 pounds of what?

Monies! GBP!

Someone else made a similar promise but to give 100 quid to everyone in the thread so I wanted to see if I could double my potential.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Monies! GBP!

Someone else made a similar promise but to give 100 quid to everyone in the thread so I wanted to see if I could double my potential.

Ah of course, sure, but it will be 100 euro's. Brexit means brexit mate.

 

[Bebestation]

The one thing that worries be about this transfer is if it stops us buying someone like Grealish who is also a LW, AM and LCM type player at max.

As a player I'm fine with him here because I personally think he will improve under a different manager.

I am an Ole supporter but I dont necessarily think he is a tactically dense manager - if I understand VDB correctly then he is someone who will benefit from that type of manager.

A player who understands his pros and cons and his special ability about finding spaces behind players backs that should be found by his team mates.

 

[Sunny Jim]

He turns 24 in 2 months and his transfer fee was almost 40 million. I get that the PL can be hard to adjust to and that playtime is crucial, but he's not a kid and his transfer fee means that he should be a sure starter soon. If not, then he'll be considered a flop.

I still don't get why we signed him. It's nice to have cover and it's smart to think long term, but 40 million is a lot of money. For another 10-20 million we could have gotten a better player who also walks straight into the starting XI in a position where we need strengthening.

At the time we got he was see as a cheaper alternative to that Aston Villa lad...

 

[Silverman]

He has contributed nothing to the team this year and that's not his fault.
Why on earth did we sign him for that money if he wasn't going to be given a proper chance.
He's the type of player that we are crying out for in midfield someone who is comfortable taking the ball and passing it quickly.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Worst time to get injured, but he hasn't done enough in the chances given to him, I am not sure he understands what is required of him on the pitch, or is it an ability issue (compared to Bruno who is very capable in the AM position)

 

[Ralph1386]

I won't be surprised if it takes a change of manager for VdB to succeed.

Bingo. Look at what Jose’s departure did for players like Rashford and Martial.

 

[Matt851]

It definitely seems like ole doesn't know how to use him properly or understood the type of player he was getting when he signed him

He seems to have played as a direct replacement for bruno most of the time he has played but doesn't look suited to the role. He looks best suited to playing as an 8 and I don't know why we don't try shift away from the 4231 when bruno isnt playing

Even when bruno is playing it would be good to see him given a run of games in the double pivot to see if he is upto playing there, even if he isn't he is hardly likely to be significantly worse than fred or matic particularly against low block teams

 

[Ralph1386]

frozen out. Don’t be so bloody dramatic you drama Queen.

Romero has been frozen out. DVDB has been given chances, and at every turn has failed to impress.

he can still run it around, and will be given more chances. But currently he’s done the square root of sweet FA to be given an extended run.

edit. Having an opinion, or perspective isint a fecking agenda. Agenda is overused on the Caf, and very rarely used correctly.

No he hasn’t. He scored a goal on his very first appearance against Crystal Palace (even though he only came in towards the end of the game) and was voted man of the match by the fans in the following cup game against Luton. The game after that in the league he only came in at the 91st minute (another appearance for you). The following game was a cup game against Brighton where he gave a flicked assist and many pundits and fans praised his overall performance (you can check the threads).

He had a good start for his career here. If there wasn’t any preferential treatment he would have been given a consistent run of games after that, like Pogba was when he was completely out of form at the beginning of the season (probably due to corona).

Bottom line: I do not agree that the whole blame is on him for needing time to adapt etc... I think he was mismanaged and maybe another manager would have gotten more out of him.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Still don't think he was Ole's signing. He has sat on the bench countless times and be an unused substitute. No manager treats their 'major' summer signing that way. Especially when during a pandemic when games are coming thick and fast. Forget giving him starts but not even throw him more from the bench shows Ole isn't a fan.

This club is going nowhere until Ed Woodward and Matt Judge are given their P45's. Ole outers can cry about Ole all they want. Nobody is taking this club back to where we want it to be whilst dumb and dumber are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

 

[Ralph1386]

This club is going nowhere until Ed Woodward and Matt Judge are given their P45's. Ole outers can cry about Ole all they want. Nobody is taking this club back to where we want it to be whilst dumb and dumber are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

100% agree

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

No he hasn’t. He scored a goal on his very first appearance against Crystal Palace (even though he only came in towards the end of the game) and was voted man of the match by the fans in the following cup game against Luton. The game after that in the league he only came in at the 91st minute (another appearance for you). The following game was a cup game against Brighton where he gave a flicked assist and many pundits and fans praised his overall performance (you can check the threads).

He had a good start for his career here. If there wasn’t any preferential treatment he would have been given a consistent run of games after that, like Pogba was when he was completely out of form at the beginning of the season (probably due to corona).

Bottom line: I do not agree that the whole blame is on him for needing time to adapt etc... I think he was mismanaged and maybe another manager would have gotten more out of him.

pulling up trees!

goal against Luton...

Sometimes things don’t work, or they take time.

furthermore, sometimes shot happens - and blame doesn’t have to be thrown around or appropriated.

I strongly disagree with you stating he’s been mismanaged.

a good proportion of players don’t work, doesn’t mean they are mismanaged or the manager is to blame.

I’ve said multiple bloody times - he might be one that takes time.
3/4 through his first season is not the time to either be writing him off or indeed blaming everyone bar the player for his largely crap performances.

 

[Coops73]

Still don't think he was Ole's signing. He has sat on the bench countless times and be an unused substitute. No manager treats their 'major' summer signing that way. Especially when during a pandemic when games are coming thick and fast. Forget giving him starts but not even throw him more from the bench shows Ole isn't a fan.

This club is going nowhere until Ed Woodward and Matt Judge are given their P45's. Ole outers can cry about Ole all they want. Nobody is taking this club back to where we want it to be whilst dumb and dumber are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

I’ve said this multiple times too, couldn’t agree more, some people just don’t seem to get this very obvious point, ideally the Glazers will feck off too but that’s not happening anytime soon so at the bare minimum if these too were taken out of the equation we “may” see an improvement in how the club is run.

 

[Matt851]

I’ve said this multiple times too, couldn’t agree more, some people just don’t seem to get this very obvious point, ideally the Glazers will feck off too but that’s not happening anytime soon so at the bare minimum if these too were taken out of the equation we “may” see an improvement in how the club is run.

I dont think anyway would disagree with you on that but I personally don't have any hope that will happen

Its not necessarily an argument to keep ole though because even though he might not be the biggest part of the problem he is still a problem and the part that is most 'fixable'

 

[Coops73]

I dont think anyway would disagree with you on that but I personally don't have any hope that will happen

Its not necessarily an argument to keep ole though because even though he might not be the biggest part of the problem he is still a problem and the part that is most 'fixable'

Maybe not but it will just perpetuate itself.

Some argue that if it can work for someone like Chelsea why not us? But I’m not sure it’s as simple as that, Chelsea are owned by an extremely wealthy individual who will use his own money to make the necessary changes, we’re owned by cnuts who won’t.

 

[Ralph1386]

a good proportion of players don’t work, doesn’t mean they are mismanaged or the manager is to blame.

And a good proportion work under one manager and not under another. Case in point Rashford and Pogba under Mourinho vs Rashford and Pogba under Ole.

I strongly disagree with you stating he’s been mismanaged.

I think everybody already noticed that. That’s the whole debate. Agree to disagree

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It’s often the best way to leave it.

 

[The Mitcher]

What has he actually shown to warrant more appearances? In most of his appearances he's done nothing.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is silly to say that he was not Ole's signing. He certainly accepted him or else he would have told Woodwork he needed the money. We could have got a replacement for a DM if we did not spend the 40 odd million on a player who never plays. What is the difference between him and Rojo or Jones? At least Jones was injured. Add 20 million and we could have got a top top player.

 

[Dearg hÉireann]

It's looking like such a wasted transfer for both United and him as a player, he's essentially gone from being first name on the team sheet at Ajax to a fringe player here, it's bad when Daniel James is getting more starts lately but his performances have not been good enough, that's a fact that shouldn't be overlooked when people are wondering why he's hasn't played more. He's looked a shadow of the player he was for Ajax a couple of seasons ago in the champions League when they got to the semi final.

I think there's definitely a good player in there it's just whether he has the mentality to keep his head down and take the opportunity when it comes. I just looked up Fred's appearances in his first season and he only player 17 times in the league, so there's hope for Donny.

I'm not a massive fan of Fred's by any stretch but he's a decent player and if VDB can get to that then I'd be happy to keep him around the club, if not we should get half the money back for him which is obviously pretty Shi**

 

[Lee565]

If we are going to resign ourselves to mediocrity and stick with ole for another season then the best solution would be to do a straight swap of beek going to liverpool and thiago coming to us as both would be better off in the other teams set up formation and tactically wise.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

The guy has been devoid of confidence ever since he got relegated to doing warm ups and only getting 2 minute cameos. He looked like he was enjoying himself before that. He's probably never been benched before in his life. People need to chill a bit and give him some time. Hopefully he'll see some action before Pogba's return. I certainly won't write him before next preseason.

He's been most successful as a goal scoring 10 or 8 for Ajax. His first touch is great and his finishing is lethal. If you want to get the most out of him, you play him alongside creative players like Bruno, Pogba, Mata, not instead of those. It's not a coincidence his best moment with the B team was that flick to Mata.

It's definitely on Ole that he has underused him and his confidence is hot. He could've played him in any number of ways: In a 4 man midfield, or as a 10 with Bruno/Pogba/Mata on the wing. It's poor man management to not trust/rotate him more.

The "not Ole's signing" meme is getting boring. We know that Ole has a veto. If he's so involved with the club he surely wouldn't waste 40 million.

 

[DuruttiColumn]

Is he fit for Milan?

 

[The Mitcher]

The guy has been devoid of confidence ever since he got relegated to doing warm ups and only getting 2 minute cameos. He looked like he was enjoying himself before that. He's probably never been benched before in his life. People need to chill a bit and give him some time. Hopefully he'll see some action before Pogba's return. I certainly won't write him before next preseason.

He's been most successful as a goal scoring 10 or 8 for Ajax. His first touch is great and his finishing is lethal. If you want to get the most out of him, you play him alongside creative players like Bruno, Pogba, Mata, not instead of those. It's not a coincidence his best moment with the B team was that flick to Mata.

It's definitely on Ole that he has underused him and his confidence is hot. He could've played him in any number of ways: In a 4 man midfield, or as a 10 with Bruno/Pogba/Mata on the wing. It's poor man management to not trust/rotate him more.

The "not Ole's signing" meme is getting boring. We know that Ole has a veto. If he's so involved with the club he surely wouldn't waste 40 million.

When we put him in that position recently, especially his last starts, he did nothing. There's a clip further back that shows him just passing back, playing it safe, for no reason when a player is doing a run he can clearly see. He's just not good enough, or can't deal with the pressure at being at United. If it's the former, hopefully he's just not good enough CURRENTLY and can improve like Fred. If not, he must go. If the latter, he wouldn't be the first and clearly can't deal with it here.

 

[AgentSmith]

When we put him in that position recently, especially his last starts, he did nothing. There's a clip further back that shows him just passing back, playing it safe, for no reason when a player is doing a run he can clearly see. He's just not good enough, or can't deal with the pressure at being at United. If it's the former, hopefully he's just not good enough CURRENTLY and can improve like Fred. If not, he must go. If the latter, he wouldn't be the first and clearly can't deal with it here.

I think he suited the no.10 position in Ajax’s system because his movement and quick passing were the more important aspects of his contribution to the team.

Our formation demands much more individual creativity from the no.10 - which is why Bruno thrives but someone like Donny looks lost. He facilitated things happening at Ajax whereas we expect him to make things happen.

VDB’s game seems like it would suit being one of the midfield two behind Bruno a lot more. His lack of physicality might hinder him there but his intelligence and technical ability would more than make up for it I feel, particularly when facing low-block defences.

Against a team where we’d dominate possession I’d like to see this how this front 6 would perform:

VDB - - - Fred
Greenwood - - Bruno - - Rashford
Cavani​