Whats going on here is he injured or not?
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Unspecified “muscle injury”.
Funny. Did Ed and Matt do the scouting and advise VDB worth 40m? Maybe that guy/gal that need P45.
It sucks because for a weird reason - as a neutral I really enjoyed watching this guy play for Ajax in the CL.
He has that ability to hide and turn up at the right spot at the right time - unfortunately here all he gets to do is hide.
I'm not giving up on him when I haven't even seen him.
He has that ability to hide and turn up at the right spot at the right time - unfortunately here all he gets to do is hide.
I'm not giving up on him when I haven't even seen him.
Think it was mentioned he had a calve injury, before he showed up on the bench for one game. I assumed he was there to fill the bench. Maybe I'm wrong and this is a new injury?
In his "last starts" in the 10/8 position, he played with a B team. No Pogba, Bruno or Mata in the side for creativity. Matic was terribly out of form in those games as well. It's not a coincidence his best moment was that flick to Mata, as many here predicted those two would match together well. I mentioned most of this in the post you quoted, did you read it?
How many balls did he receive when he made a run off the ball?
At Ajax he had Blind and Frenkie de Jong behind him and Ziyech on the RW. They would find him constantly.
I'm familiar with the one clip where he didn't make the forward pass. Never mind that there was a similar situation much earlier in the season where he did make the pass, if you're expecting him to make delicate through balls, you've got the wrong player. He's a lethal finisher that likes to play quick combinations. He's not a playmaker.
I'm sure I'll get some get some "Donny stan" criticism for my defending of the player, just know that my season average rating is a 5, compared to the Caf's 5,7. I'm not going to judge Donny's succes or failure at the highest level when he hasn't been used properly. If his misuse continues, I wouldn't be surprised if he became a goal machine again after leaving and it would be blamed on him "not being able to deal with the pressure of playing at United" by the Caf.
Some people writing him off already is exactly what’s wrong with modern fans. We have no idea what’s going on with his personal life, the guys just moved to a new club/country, has to make new friends, has to compete with the most valuable player in our team all whilst in the middle of a global pandemic. He’s proven he’s a champions league capable player so let’s at least give him til next season before we write him off completely
He has to change his game if he is to be a starter for us. I was hoping he will the link between defence to attack this season but maybe that is too soon for him? Ole did suggest he needs to work on his physique so hopefully we will see him more next season.
It's pretty obvious not every player we have signed over the last 7 years has been who the manager wanted. LVG n Jose had confirmed as much since leaving.
Don't have any doubts Donny was a Club signing over an Ole one. Why would he basically leave him out so often if he really wanted him? Makes no sense.
We need a right winger, Pep likes possession players, swap deal for Mahrez? I’m game. Neither guy has to move house either.
Ole had a long admiration for Donny and certainly wanted him at the club, you're just making things up because he hasn't played much.
There can be 100 different reasons why VDB has not featured enough for us, but him not being wanted initially by the manager is not one of them.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...fer-news/man-utd-vande-beek-transfer-18908515
Solskjaer then revealed how long he had been personally tracking Van de Beek and confirmed conversations with current Ajax chief and former United goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar had taken place.
The Norwegian added: "When you like a player... I followed Donny, he scored his first goal against Molde in the Europa League in 2015.
^ so yes, he's been following the player for a while and has been an admirer of his qualities since before he even joined Manchester United as a manager.
History is full of players not hitting the grass running, but picking up speed after a year or so. I thought Donny started freshly, but if your normal game don’t pay out in new surroundings, it will take a toll on your confidence.
Kagawa, Mkhitarian and Gündogan are three players who travelled from the rather specific Dortmund system to the city of Manchester. All struggled initially adapting to new team under a new coach, but whereas the first was given up on quickly, and the other didn’t have the mentality and wilted, the third has taken some time and adapted and is now one of the most important factors in a team that beats everyone by default (except us
).It wasn’t just tje injuries and the physical league, Pep took his time to find out what role in his system Gündogan should have. And the players around also needed time and tinkering to adapt to Gündogans stregths and weaknesses.
Van de Beek strikes me as a player that would play well at a team with a core of speedy precise passers that know each other well. United have had an issue with ballhogs, and while Van de Beek is part of the remedy, he will not be effective unless Pogba and Matic can release the ball quicker, Fred and McTom can be more precise in threading through the lines, Bruno varies the quick killer pass with the quick set up pass more often, Martial gets more proactive in his thinking and Rashford and Greenwood lift their eyes a bit more. Players like VdB, in a flow, can help them do that, but it takes time to reach that point. Before that, van de Beeks strengths will not be able to show fully.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/51279138
You have to take what managers say in public at face value.
A lot has changed at the club since then. IIRC some deals were done before LVG came in, Shaw for instance. LVG's criticism was that he didn't get his first choices, but rather his 7th choice (one example he gave), not that he got players he didn't put on his wish list.
This whole "Not Ole's signing" thing has got to die. We know for a fact Ole has a veto.
From Ed Woodward
`To spend 35 million pounds on a player that has barely played for us all season is mental and sums up perfectly how badly run we are as a football club, it's not a dig at Donny, a long way off it, he's a fantastic player but why on earth did we sign him ? Did we really need him ? Don't even bring up "Squad depth" , you don't spend that type of money on someone that is not even getting picked when Bruno is rested or Pogba is injured/rested, this is a dutch international who has been playing against top teams in europe and can barely get a game against Sheffield United.
It's the same with Diallo tbh, I know he's a player for the future but for 30m surely he is signed to be playing in the first team for some games, he's barely had a look in yet, Donny + Diallo is 65m give or take, how much would Grealish have cost us, Declan Rice etc , a player that would have contributed towards our season, i just feel like we are told as a club the market is inflated, the pandemic has affected clubs etc which of course it has but were hardly spending our money wisely.
Again this is not a dig at Donny or Diallo, it's questioning the money we are happy to splash on players that are barely getting a touch of first team football and then that begs the question, whats there purpose at United ?
It's the same with Diallo tbh, I know he's a player for the future but for 30m surely he is signed to be playing in the first team for some games, he's barely had a look in yet, Donny + Diallo is 65m give or take, how much would Grealish have cost us, Declan Rice etc , a player that would have contributed towards our season, i just feel like we are told as a club the market is inflated, the pandemic has affected clubs etc which of course it has but were hardly spending our money wisely.
Again this is not a dig at Donny or Diallo, it's questioning the money we are happy to splash on players that are barely getting a touch of first team football and then that begs the question, whats there purpose at United ?
VDB and Diallo are completely different for a start.
Diallo had never started a professional football match and been at the club for 10 weeks. His transfer fee is irrelevant - he’s so obviously bought for the future.
you’ve also fallen into the trap of quoting all the add ins as part of the fee.
VDB is a bit different, but it IS a case of him needing time needed to adjust - and it’s been a bloody difficult season to integrate players.
let’s also consider that he would almost certainly got game time over the past month, but he can’t, because he’s injured. Let’s continue to blame the club...
I know fans like to take digs at the club. But it’s utterly ridiculous to do so in the case of Diallo - and in terms of VDB, you are shooting your load far too soon.
What is the point in this? Do you understand his words about Sanchez are completely different in context to that about VDB?
With VDB he says it's a player he's been personally scouted and followed for a long time before he joined the club. So the insinuation that he's not Ole's signing is absolutely ludacris.
With Sanchez it's a player inherited by Ole, and all he said in your article is that he works hard in training.
To show that what a manager says in public isn’t always what they really think. He didn’t say he works hard in training, he said he’s going to come back and prove everybody wrong. It was obvious he was lying then, and been proven to be the case. He said similar about Smalling, Rojo etc.
All he’s said about VDB is he played against Molde and he’s followed him since. It means nothing. It certainly means a hell of lot less than never playing him.
The injury has come at an unfortunate time for van de Beek. No Pogba or Mata and Europa games coming thick and fast mean he 100% would've got game time in this period.
It's difficult to have too much sympathy for him though. He would've been aware of Fernandes' status in the team when he signed so opportunities were always going to be limited, and when he's had the chances he hasn't taken them. Forgivable in his first year at the club but he really needs to step it up next season.
It's difficult to have too much sympathy for him though. He would've been aware of Fernandes' status in the team when he signed so opportunities were always going to be limited, and when he's had the chances he hasn't taken them. Forgivable in his first year at the club but he really needs to step it up next season.
Would honestly like to see VDB play in a team with bruno, mata and cavani. I think we would probably see the best out of him then.
Mata said in an interview that him and VDB on the training ground play really well together; 1-2 touch football. Link him up with bruno's speculative final balls into the box, cavanis movement and VDB late runs and it could be an interesting watch. Hope we get to see these guys together for a whole match for one game this season.
Mata said in an interview that him and VDB on the training ground play really well together; 1-2 touch football. Link him up with bruno's speculative final balls into the box, cavanis movement and VDB late runs and it could be an interesting watch. Hope we get to see these guys together for a whole match for one game this season.
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I still think he was brought in with an eye at simply bedding him in this season and letting Pogba go in the summer. I think Ole has found a midfield he likes that includes both Fred and McTominay, so that leaves VDB with limited opportunities, but I think if indeed Pogba does leave, then we'll be seeing a lot more of him next season as we strengthen other parts of the field.
He's always going to protect a player that's he's inherited, and Sanchez' attitude to training doesn't exactly go against his words. Sanchez wanting to prove everyone wrong isn't exactly an incorrect statement even though he preferred to do it at a different club.
Back to VDB though, if Ole signs the player, and then praises him as one he's followed and kept a close eye on throughout his career - the insinuation is certainly not that the player was thrown on him without a say. That is just made up shit to try and provide context into not playing him as much. There can be 100 reasons why VDB didn't feature as much - getting used to the league, or England, or the philosophy away from a possession based style, needing to bulk up physically, whatever it might be. But not being wanted by Ole as a signing is very likely not one of them.
Do you actually think Ole would publicly say if he thought he was no good and he didn’t want him? Take anything a manager says at face value.
Yep, our business this summer is looking more and more weird as the season goes on. The only player making any real impact is the one we got for free at the last minute.
The manager would not talk about how he followed him through his career, and always liked him. If he didn't want him it would show in a more neutral welcoming, not a "I've been following this guy for so long, I've always liked him, xyz". Managers that have players thurst upon them don't go that far - it's not a face value interpretation.
It's outright lazy to insinuate otherwise
No pre-season, crowded midfield, adjusting to a new league, injured at the same time as the players he is competing with, plays 26 games with over 10 starts by just over mid season but somehow Ole doesn't like him and we are freezing him out. I think some people just talk nonsense to to be saying something.
Have you seen the cost to acquire youngsters these days. I would argue that us fidgeting in the market, being unwilling to look into these kind of transfer actually cost us prior to Ole's arrival. Instead, we were buying mediocre players for that equivalent that we had to sell on a year or two later due to how average they performed. Diallo literally came in January. Patience.
VDB was signed as squad depth after last season as it was clear that we were overly reliant on Bruno centrally. I assumed VDB would be more versatile and be able to capably take up a number of roles. These type of signings happen. City signed Nathan Ake. We may just have to bite the bullet and hope another team wants him.
VDB hasn't been given a chance yet to decide we need to get rid. He also hasn't been tried in mid either,. Frustrating that he's seen only as Bruno's replacement instead of giving him some game time further back. Problem with him and Diallo though is we're never in a position of control in a game to take risks. So Ole never does, cos he's not a risk-taking manager. He sticks to tried and true. And now, when finally with all our injuries, Donnie would have a genuine chance to play, he's bloody injured too. Sod's law. Feel sorry for the kid. Definitely not time to boot him yet though. Still have faith in the lad.
Hopefully that will change. In the case of Diallo, due to the space we have on the right flank, I believe its only a matter of time. VDB on the other hand will have to adapt and improve on his game if he wants to feature prominently for us. He has some abilities which we currently lack in the middle, but he has to be able to use them effectively for us. Most importantly, he has to take more risks. Being risk averse is a sin at this club. With his great touch on the ball and ability to find space, we expect more aggression and drive in situations when he does have the ball. Even if he is lacking for pace, his passes need to be more incisive. It's on him to prove to us that he is worthy of being here. I think fans sometimes forget how big we actually are.
He'll be sent to Dortmund in exchange for Sancho in the summer,
Like he used neutral language in saying Sanchez would prove everybody wrong? Whatever. The proof will be in the pudding.
your last sentence is very apt for this thread.
For the 100th time, they aren't comparable. Certain quotes are not to be taken as face value, the obvious ones, like when he's trying to cover up and under fire, under performing player.
Other times it's quite obvious that he's genuine, such as leaping praise on a new signing, going as far as saying he's followed his whole career. You don't say that for no reason, and you don't say that if you didn't have a say in signing the player. The "pudding" as you put it, is down to 100 other factors. To lazily imply it must be because Ole never wanted him is just daft.
Ole speaks a lot of shit to the media.
He's not going to come out and say he never wanted VDB and the club signed him against his wishes. He's not AVB.
For the 101st time, they are comparable.
Sometimes actions speak louder than words. We fundamentally disagree. We’ll never know what Solskjaer really thinks. Taking his word, or that of any manager talking to the media, is stupid.
Whenever I see VDB play he's always hesitant when attacking. He usually takes the safer option of passing back or sideways rather than snipe a through ball or something. He just doesn't look comfortable when playing and it's clear Ole sees something akin to that as well.
He's not going to go above and beyond, stating he's followed a new signing for his career either. It's quite obviously not a player that's been thrust upon him.
Clearly, we do. We can agree to disagree - but Ole's answer about Sanchez in a press conference as a defence tactic should not be taken in the same measure as him talking about VDB and referring to how long he's been following the player. That doesn't sound the mark of a player who had no say in the transfer, quite clearly.
We could do with him being fit. Paid 40m for him and the one time we really need him he’s injured! Sums United up.
In my opinion the situation with him tells more about what is wrong with our football than with the player.
We play slow, boring and static football most of the time. Passing backwards and sideways and often trying killer passes straight to the opponent. Sometimes it works and when we get some space we are dangerous, but it was an eye opener yesterday to watch Milan pass their way through our lines with precision while we most of the time looked completely clueless.
DvB would have flourished in this Milan side.
We play slow, boring and static football most of the time. Passing backwards and sideways and often trying killer passes straight to the opponent. Sometimes it works and when we get some space we are dangerous, but it was an eye opener yesterday to watch Milan pass their way through our lines with precision while we most of the time looked completely clueless.
DvB would have flourished in this Milan side.
Complete pisstake isn’t it. Watch him return at the same time as Pogba.
would it be safe to assume that these "injuries" to Donny and Mata are simply covid related and not an actual "injury?"
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