Sorry friend he is our donkey. You have to lure your own donkeys over.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
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Sorry friend he is our donkey. You have to lure your own donkeys over.
Still a long way to go but Arguably he is doing better for us than Doku for City or Gakpo for Liverpool based on how much dependent our play is on him.
The direct comparison is Havertz vs Alvarez vs Gakpo: the 8.5s
The Athletic did a story on their common profile and how they're being utilized in midfield and attack
I said it all along. Chuck him up front and you’ll see a better Havertz. This is who he is now.
He was decent last night. Can hardly grumble with a goal and an assist. Pathetic miss at the start of the second half though. If we can unlock that extra bit of conviction then there won't be any questions about him at all.
For all the criticism he gets, he's a much better signing than Nunes, Caicedo, Mount, Lavia, Gravenberch, Tonali or Kovacic.
He is not a cf tbf. So he will always be pronr to such misses. For an AM though he is an elite scorer.
No he doesn't, he looks exactly the same.
our boy is showing his class again. On pace to beat any goal scoring season he had at chelsea even without taking penalties. He's really turning into quite the asset fort his squad.
The difference is how the coach uses him in the system.
Bingo. Arteta has really surprised me with how he has been able to improve the players he wanted. I knew Havertz’s versatility was one of the main reasons he wanted him. Not convinced with him as an 8 but he can play there if needed. No doubt is much more useful higher up though. That was a sweet finish today and his touch to lay off to White was
He’s not really using him that much differently than Tuchel and Potter were at Chelsea. I’ve been saying in this thread to chuck him up front and you’ll see a much better Havertz than the player who looked completely lost in midfield. I wouldn’t say rectifying his own mistake is cause to say Arteta has improved him but he is statistically going to have his most productive season in England this season.
What has been driving me insane is that I think he'd be a perfect fit in the role Gallagher has been playing for us, plus he'd bring an element of hold-up play we lack pretty badly
Yes but I'm not gonna lie, I had Havertz fatigue. Every season was following the same pattern, start slow, have a little purple patch around Feb/March to make me believe in him again, and then quietly score 1 goal in the final 15 games
I'm not even sure he'd be that perfect in the Gallagher role. He doesn't have the tenacity, the energy, the press that Gallagher does. He offers much, much better quality on the ball but Gallagher gives me much more to believe in than Havertz ever did, even though I rated/still rate him much higher than some Chelsea fans in this thread.
How does he look any different to what we saw at Chelsea?.
Still dont know what his best postion is? Check
Still cant dribble? Check
Still not creative and 95% of the time plays the safe easy pass to the closest player to him? Check
Still a poor finisher? Check
Most of his goals come VS the weaker sides? Check
Still plays slow and lethargic with zero personality? Check
Yes but I'm not gonna lie, I had Havertz fatigue. Every season was following the same pattern, start slow, have a little purple patch around Feb/March to make me believe in him again, and then quietly score 1 goal in the final 15 games
I'm not even sure he'd be that perfect in the Gallagher role. He doesn't have the tenacity, the energy, the press that Gallagher does. He offers much, much better quality on the ball but Gallagher gives me much more to believe in than Havertz ever did, even though I rated/still rate him much higher than some Chelsea fans in this thread.
Once bitten, twice shy is certainly a fair attitude.
Havertz certainly isn't on Gallagher's level off the ball it's true - but honestly he's much better in the final third and he'd give us an aerial presence we badly need.
All hypothetical anyways but I'll probably go to my grave believing in Havertz's upside
He is not a great player...but not a poor one either, which many folks are making him out to be. He doesn't really excel at anything but also quietly ticks a lot of boxes. If we had paid 35 or even 40 mil, we would definitely had gotten a good squad player who can contribute very well especially when he is in form. My suspicion is he has some confidence issues as well. He is at a club now where he is not the focal point but rathe a cog in the wheel, so the pressure on him will be less.
Not the best transfer but glad to say definitely far from being a terrible one. Last summer eas a decent transfer season. With Timber coming back hopefully back to where he was, it is looking better and better.
Not the best transfer but glad to say definitely far from being a terrible one. Last summer eas a decent transfer season. With Timber coming back hopefully back to where he was, it is looking better and better.
Will you?Let it go mate
Let it go mate
Amazing how a goal can make people think he's playing well.
I saw a all contacts video of that game of him and it was very good. The assist was very nice and he was also involved in the Ödegaard goal with a good feint. In general many progressive passes. If he plays like this, he could also become a candidate as Germany's number 9 again
Desperate times
Yeah, our striker options have been underwhelming since three decades arguably
You are absolutely right. I am not sure if Arteta give up the idea of playing him as a #8, or play him in a hybrid role to form a box midfield of 4 with Odegaard, Rice and Jorghino, and false 9. Whatever it is, it is working and Havertz is starting every game lately. He is an expensive transfer but at least he is good enough to start for Arsenal and contributing to the team.
Despite it being Arsenal, I'm pleased he's doing well.
He'll never top that moment in Porto though. I can't just be nice without putting that out there.
He'll never top that moment in Porto though. I can't just be nice without putting that out there.
I admit I really didn't believe this and even was a bit annoyed of people proclaiming it because he always played as a CM/CAM hybrid for us. But I'm happy he's doing well regardless of the position and since Germany has an abundance of attacking and central midfielders, it is probably better for his own career as well.
This is a win - win situation for all three parties involved. Chelsea, Arsenal and Havertz are all happy with the transfer. Same for the Jorghino transfer as well.
Shouldn’t this be in the Bruno/Rashford thread
You're the same poster that doesn't watch highlights and judges a players / teams performance based on the stats at full time right? Never change. No really, please do change because it's cringe.
You're the same poster that doesn't watch highlights and judges a players / teams performance based on the stats at full time right? Never change. No really, please do change because it's cringe.
I actually wanted to ignore you but then again, as long as you are occupied in the football section of this forum you at least can't distribute the colossal bullshit you spout out in the politics forum, so I guess I'm doing the world a favor now
You're using the wrong color for white text by the way, you need to use #fafafa. That aside, people tend to put something funny or quick-witted in there so maybe try that next time? If you can't come up with anything funny or quick-witted, just ask @Rooney in Paris. You can always just make fun of German humour, works everytime and never gets old
The last time he played midfield with any regularity was in 2020. It was a nice experiment by Arteta to see if he was still good there, but the 3 years at Chelsea seems to have turned him into a permanent striker. Fortunately for him, it appears as though Arteta has accepted this now.
Not very sure of that. Arteta can be pretty stubborn.
Also if he persists with Havertz at CF and if he keeps on performing as well as he is currently it would be difficult to upgrade on him actually as his holdup/linkup play is good. He is very physical and does really press well. Makes great runs. If only his finishing was better he would have been a 100m Striker. But then we can say the same about Jesus...
He's a decent player who's a bit of an enigma as not clear what his best position is. Looking decent for Arsenal.
He didn't fit in Clearlakes spreadsheets, that's why we sold him. Can't be bitter after his CL winner.
One problem after that was I think he thought he'd made it already after the CL. Transfer gave him a needed kick.
He didn't fit in Clearlakes spreadsheets, that's why we sold him. Can't be bitter after his CL winner.
One problem after that was I think he thought he'd made it already after the CL. Transfer gave him a needed kick.
He's a striker who never learned to play like one because he wanted to be Ozil
I don't think Arteta even thinks in terms of midfielder or striker.
Its a little different with Zinchenko in the side but without him we've basically been alternating between two kinds of setups - both have a traditional back four with FBs that move forward to support the attack inside, both have two wide forwards providing width, and its really a question of whether we are playing a box in midfield or a diamond, sometimes switching between the two within a match. In neither setup are we playing with a traditional striker who stays central and provides a focal point. The tip of the diamond player is a "striker" on paper but dropping deep and moving a lot laterally and in the box formation the top left of the box player is the "striker" on paper but moving all over the field.
Havertz has generally been top left of the box (when he gets listed as our striker in lineups) or side left of the diamond (when he gets listed as a midfielder in lineups). If you look at touch maps, his touches are actually pretty similar because the roles aren't that far different. The biggest difference is really out of possession, because when Havertz is played side left of the diamond he is often in the second line of defense when we are defending more deeply. You see him next to Rice a lot in these situations. When he is top left of the midfield box he is always in the first line, leading the press with Odegaard. The biggest difference in possession is in the sequence of runs. When Havertz is top left of the diamond he is usually the first player making a run into the box whereas when he is side left of the diamond he is making the second man run after the tip of the diamond (ie, Jesus or Trossard) goes somewhere first and ideally drags defenders out of position. A sometimes he just switches with Jesus/Trossard.
All in all he has been a really valuable player for us. He isn't quite at the point of being an automatic selection but he's pretty close (has started 11 of the last 12 league matches when he was available).
At this point Havertz is a automatic selection. He is (should be) ahead of Jesus at CF if Rice plays LCM. If Rice plays DM then he is ahead of Trossard/ESR/Viera for LCM.
Havertz, Werner, Mount and Pulisic are getting so much sh*t, because they don´t have a lot of empty stats. They are winning intangible players. There was nothing flukey about their CL win. They were nearly inpenetrable due to their perfect press. Thierry Henry said it perfectly: It matters how many goals the team scores and not how many individual players score.
Chelsea won the CL because it was Covid season, teams were getting run into the ground left and right and they had crazy depth while being extremely physical and fast, which meant they just overrun a bunch of teams who just didn't have the gas to keep up. And then Tuchel outcoached Guardiola in the final(for the 2nd time in like 3 weeks, too)
Though you're right that the combination of those guys and Tuchel made them really really really tough to play against. Extreme combination of pace and physicality along with great tactical discipline and organization, and just enough talent to nick the goal(s) they needed. Not enough for a long league campaign, but fecking terrifying in cups
Very true
Some odd takes in Here suggesting he’s playing as a centre forward. He’s really not.
Really good signing.
Really good signing.