It was a great goal. His time at Chelsea has been mixed. Low productivity generally but scored the most crucial of all goals. The question is if he can keep up this form to really become a top player in the league.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
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Problem is that it was clear pre-lukaku where his best position was and they went ahead and brought in a new toy anyway. He had just been decisive in a CL final.
They should bring back Broja, sell Lukaku and consider this position covered.
Play him where you get the most out of him and don’t try to shove him elsewhere just because you have your eye on a number 9 with a big name.
They should bring back Broja, sell Lukaku and consider this position covered.
Play him where you get the most out of him and don’t try to shove him elsewhere just because you have your eye on a number 9 with a big name.
Lovely goal today
I love this kid. What a talent. Werner on the hand....
He is 22. Looking at the posts before you have to wonder what would our fans write about Sancho if he was playing for another team in such a mixed form.
Everything is black or white here and depending on the last game. Like its impossible for a player to improve, develop, blossom under a different manager and so on.
The kid is clearly very talented (same as Sancho). We would definitely write in a different manner if he was a United player.
Everything is black or white here and depending on the last game. Like its impossible for a player to improve, develop, blossom under a different manager and so on.
The kid is clearly very talented (same as Sancho). We would definitely write in a different manner if he was a United player.
I'd co-sign that.
In my personal opinion, he (Sancho) should be the player you build your team around. Excluding CR7 and Cavani who are at the other end of their career his game intelligence is light years above your other forwards, yes including Bruno.
That's enough to justify the amount of mid performances he's put up overall since joining Chelsea?
Obviously the rational thing is to give him time and see whether he can put in quality performances week in and week out, befitting of a team aiming to be league champions. Shame that luxury wasn't afforded one of his peers but that's football fans for you
Not sure you'll ever see a more stark contrast in first touches than that between Werner and Havertz - Havertz handling the more difficult one beautifully and Werner letting the ball bounce of his knee and go 15 yards away.
It actually is like the season before he came to Chelsea. Did not really cut it when on other positions but scored well as centre forward... Maybe he just is not really the great no. 10 but a pretty good striker?
He hasn't played #9 for most of his time here. Whenever he has (back end of last season, the autumn, now) he's been sensational.That's enough to justify the amount of mid performances he's put up overall since joining Chelsea?
Obviously the rational thing is to give him time and see whether he can put in quality performances week in and week out, befitting of a team aiming to be league champions. Shame that luxury wasn't afforded one of his peers but that's football fans for you
He was decent as a number 8 under Frank pre his crippling bout of long Covid but was average in the 2 behind the forward.
He hasn't played pure number 10 much in fairness, i think a couple of times at the very start but that's about it (that said he got a hattrick in one of them).
Tuchel and Lampard ignored this run of sensational form from Havertz (which would have put him ahead of every other attacking player at the club in the period he's been there) and played him out of position mostly?
I'd call James' form sensational. Not Havertz. But you've watched more games than me!
Oh absolutely. You can see that he is one of the rare players in our team who would most likely thrive under possession based and progressive world class manager. He also often looks on a different wavelength as opposed to the rest of the team with his neat combinations.
Bruno, as much as I like him, might actually be in trouble under new circumstances as he is too reckless with the ball.
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When I saw him (in that position) post lockdown for Levekusen my first thought was I hope Liverpool didn't get him as he'd be the perfect Firmino successor. When up front he's like the Brazillian in the sense his movement and game intelligence facilitates a really fluent game most of the time even when he's not scoring himself.
Compare that to Lukaku who has to score for his inclusion to even begin to be justified.
Goal today was similar to the a lot of the goals Higuain scored from similar Jorginho passes over the top when at Napoli.
Could be a good partnership if Jorginho and Havertz end up with a similar kind of understanding.
Could be a good partnership if Jorginho and Havertz end up with a similar kind of understanding.
That's enough to justify the amount of mid performances he's put up overall since joining Chelsea?
Obviously the rational thing is to give him time and see whether he can put in quality performances week in and week out, befitting of a team aiming to be league champions. Shame that luxury wasn't afforded one of his peers but that's football fans for you
I think he had looked promising anytime he was played as a forward. They still persisted for a time putting in midfield or shoving him either side. It looked like they bought him for his quality without thinking about what the team would look like.
I think you are right in general though and it’s a sin of which not just Chelsea are guilty. Players can sometimes be victims of a clubs transfer policy and it’s fortunate Tuchel has come in and realized his potential in this role.
What he did with the ball and his feet before the goal should not be allowed on tv
I guess key to unlocking James' scoring run has been the necessary movement on the pitch to get him as wing back into scoring positions. You get that movement with Havertz, you don't get it with Lukaku, even in games were Havertz himself isn't as efficient
Sancho is a clear talent. Just took a while to get going.
That first touch for his goal was incredible.
Come on this is giving Havertz a bit too much credit wouldn't you say? Not even Firmino got this kind of credit.
It was almost Bergkamp-esque.
The top 3 premier league sides all using some kind of false 9 at the minute. Heck, you could even argue that Arsenal in fourth let Aubameyang go (classic line-breaking poacher) and now seem to have found good form with Lacazette uptop in more of a facilitative role.
Maybe I should phrase it a bit different: You need a mobile striker/false nine, if you want to get your wing backs into great goal scoring positions. This is about tactics, not about quality. To put it bluntly, a shit player who knows when to move out of the way for a great player (and James definitely was in great form) might be more valuable than a solid player standing in the way. I didn't mean to give too much credit for James' form to Havertz, more to the tactical setup using them both.
If it comes to Chelsea players getting auctioned off... He's the player I want United to be all over. Imagine Havertz and Sancho on each wing.
He'd be poor, as Chelsea have found out. He's not a winger; he needs to be playing centrally. In many ways he's a striker version of Mesut Ozil - his movement is what makes him world class and helps unlock defenses, so playing him on a wing where he's limited in terms of moving laterally is ultimately detrimental.
I don't think it's giving him enough credit. Mendy, and even Kepa, look so much more confident in goal when Havertz is playing upfront. The statistics don't lie
Yes. He's still great as an 8/10 though. Excelled in that role for us, even more so than as a false 9. That being said it's probably about time the constant positional shifting stops so that he can really settle in. Plus he also has the best chances of starting for Germany as a false 9.
This. Harvetz, is a misunderstood player in the modern game. He is essentially a old No.10 being forced to play F9 and is in no way a winger. I would actually argue he would be better as an 8 than an 11 or 7.
As for him overall, if Chelsea run into trouble over their sale to new ownership and have to sell he is the player that I suspect will be the most prized.
A lot of people, get obsessed by stats these days, but Harvetz has been very impressive since he was about 17 with his in game intelligence. What a lot of people fail to see with him (especially those that watch on TV exclusively) is how he drags defences around with his movements off the ball. Considering he is doing this at his age is highly impressive as that is a very canny skill that you don't usually see from someone so young; it is similar to Crespo/Inzaghi/RVN where is takes two to mark him because they cannot keep a track on them, even though they're not the strongest.
Additionally, what has impressed me this season about him is how he has bulked up a bit and stopped being such a lightweight. Last season, he got builled quite a bit, whereas this season he is shielding the ball much better and also learning how to sh*thouse a bit. His physical development kind of reminds me of CR7's as he transitioned from a teenager to his man body (not saying he will be as good of a player, rather that he seems to have had a similar physical development.)
Anyway, I have been high on him since he was kid and I think he is now starting to show everyone in England what he is about.
As for that goal yesterday, the close control was just filthy, he literally had to take it like that as he only had about 1.5 yards to play with. Ridiculous.
I agree. Constant changing could lead him to become the German Phil Jones.
Our new Drogba, really.
The narrative around the team last season was that we're a good young team that just needed a lethal finisher who could finish all the chances we create. We were incredibly profligate. The stat about Jorginho being our top scorer with 7 penalties was being bandied about everywhere. A lot of said us exactly what you just said there last summer and at various points since. I personally preferred to protect Havertz's development considering he was still only 21 and we'd invested a lot to get him but also because he's a fecking gem of a player.
Thought you should go all in on Sancho back then and ignore Lukaku because he'd make your attack very static. But most Chelsea fans were adamant to get a striker back then.
Imagine Havertz and Sancho linking up, coached by Tuchel
That was in the cup against a team of the lower leagues, or?
I actually often do not see it as big difference if he (or other original 10s) play as offensive 8s or 10s. There actually is not much difference. It is the position behind the striker whereas in my eyes in the last season for Bayer and now shines playing the 9.
If Chelsea are in a really bad place in the summer we should be all over some of their players tbh.
- Mendy
- Rudiger
- Kovacic
- Jorginho
- Kante
- Mount
- Havertz
- James
- Tuchel
They would all be great signings for us tbh.
- Mendy
- Rudiger
- Kovacic
- Jorginho
- Kante
- Mount
- Havertz
- James
- Tuchel
They would all be great signings for us tbh.
Manchelsea United?
Mendy
Varane, Maguire, Rüdiger
James, Kante, Jorginho, Shaw
Bruno, Mount
Havertz
Guess it could work