Donald Trump - GUILTY!

Admittedly viewed from the UK... but would it not be better for the US if both elderly septuagenarians (becoming octogenarians in the next term) left the stage?

Both men have had their time in the sun, both have held the presidential office. Republicans know Biden's health is against him and he is unlikely maybe even to win the Democrat nomination for 2024. However, with a rejuvenated Biden, and a strong VP standing in the wings, then perhaps they cherish the thought that with a court conviction against him, only Trumps 'dyed in the wool' supporters will vote for him and so they will have a good chance of trouncing not just Trump but the whole republican party. Nevertheless would they really wish to risk someone new leading the party, if that does not happen.

The republican party planners have perhaps an even greater dilemma, having maybe once had the thought they could persuade Trump not to run, but to become the 'guiding hand in the background', that is all likely to change now because of the charges being bought against him, so that Trump now begins to think he can win if he can play the victim/ martyr and if he doesn't win the nomination he could create more mayhem for the republicans internally.

Surely with everyone's focus on the future, i.e. Climate Change, Energy costs, Greening of the markets/industry, increasing rates of Migration across the world, then the most powerful nation on earth needs someone who is young enough to appreciate the problems these things bring and that in their own lifetime, never mind their children and grand kids, their lives will be affected.
With all due respect to Biden and Trump both should be heading into the sunset now!
 
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Akshay said:
He'll be largely out of the discussion until the general election, which is still a year and half away at this point. He doesn't gain anything by saying he won't compete at this point, at the very least see how the initial primaries go and take a call from there. I don't think he's the automatic choice for the next cycle if he doesn't even compete, he'll just be handing over airtime to other contenders.


Yeah, it's definitely the smart choice for him to delay a decision as long as possible. It's a perverse situation where I want Trump brought to justice but would rather he still wins the Republican nomination because I don't think he'd beat Biden, but DeSantis would.
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The point I think you may be missing is that he legally CANNOT declare he is running unless he resigns as Governor of Florida. There is no way he is going to do this as 90% of his notoriety comes from being Gov. I would expect a bill to be proposed in the FL legislature shortly that removes this rule. That will be the surest sign he is going to run.
 
calodo2003 said:
They've dwindled significantly since 2016.
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The GOP dilemma, and the reason they are still debasing themselves for his lard ass, is that if even 5-10% of his hard core supporters stay home in 24 it will be a bloodbath. Forget the presidency, the Senate and House are both in play and they would get crushed. This is why I think he get the nomination or "falls out a window". Trump will never accept a loss i the Primary, and even if he does not run as a 3rd part candidate he will rage on and on enough to swing things.
 
Maticmaker said:
Admittedly viewed from the UK... but would it not be better for the US if both elderly septuagenarians (becoming octogenarians in the next term) left the stage?

Both men have had their time in the sun, both have held the presidential office. Republicans know Biden's health is against him and he is unlikely maybe even to win the Democrat nomination for 2024. However, with a rejuvenated Biden, and a strong VP standing in the wings, then perhaps they cherish the thought that with a court conviction against him, only Trumps 'dyed in the wool' supporters will vote for him and so they will a good have chance of trouncing not just Trump but the whole republican party. Nevertheless would they really wish to risk someone new leading the party, if that does not happen.

The republican party planners have perhaps an even greater dilemma, having maybe once had the thought they could persuade Trump not to run, but to become the 'guiding hand in the background', that is all likely to change now because of the charges being bought against him, so that Trump now begins to think he can win win if he can play the victim/ martyr and if he doesn't win the nomination he could create more mayhem for the republicans internally.

Surely with everyone's focus on the future, i.e. Climate Change, Energy costs, Greening of the markets/industry, increasing rates of Migration across the world, then the most powerful nation on earth needs someone who is young enough to appreciate the problems these things bring and that in their own lifetime, never mind their children and grand kids, their lives will be affected.
With all due respect to Biden and Trump both should be heading into the sunset now!
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The problem is mainly the younger "candidates" are also the most hardline, left and right and that is a reflection of where the country stands, on the Democrats side think the Squad and on the Republican side think Gaetz, Jordan and Taylor Greene
 
Red in STL said:
The problem is mainly the younger "candidates" are also the most hardline, left and right and that is a reflection of where the country stands, on the Democrats side think the Squad and on the Republican side think Gaetz, Jordan and Taylor Greene
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On the left I don't think the next realistic candidates are the Squad. That pool is headlined by Governors Newsome and Whitmer. The progressive reps would get crushed in the primary, at least for now.
 
Maticmaker said:
Admittedly viewed from the UK... but would it not be better for the US if both elderly septuagenarians (becoming octogenarians in the next term) left the stage?

Both men have had their time in the sun, both have held the presidential office. Republicans know Biden's health is against him and he is unlikely maybe even to win the Democrat nomination for 2024. However, with a rejuvenated Biden, and a strong VP standing in the wings, then perhaps they cherish the thought that with a court conviction against him, only Trumps 'dyed in the wool' supporters will vote for him and so they will have a good chance of trouncing not just Trump but the whole republican party. Nevertheless would they really wish to risk someone new leading the party, if that does not happen.

The republican party planners have perhaps an even greater dilemma, having maybe once had the thought they could persuade Trump not to run, but to become the 'guiding hand in the background', that is all likely to change now because of the charges being bought against him, so that Trump now begins to think he can win if he can play the victim/ martyr and if he doesn't win the nomination he could create more mayhem for the republicans internally.

Surely with everyone's focus on the future, i.e. Climate Change, Energy costs, Greening of the markets/industry, increasing rates of Migration across the world, then the most powerful nation on earth needs someone who is young enough to appreciate the problems these things bring and that in their own lifetime, never mind their children and grand kids, their lives will be affected.
With all due respect to Biden and Trump both should be heading into the sunset now!
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Is from the UK but telling other countries to sort their shit out :lol:
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Will he actually be convicted of anything and if he is, chances of him actually serving jail time.
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NY lawsuit - no jail time, will be a difficult case to win a guilty verdict

GA lawsuit, 2020 election interference, obstruction of justice re: classified docs - much easier to win a guilty verdict with significant (5+ years) jail time
 
All LIES! PLITICSLLY motivated WHITCHUNT! Never INDICATED before! I should be in White House! I was cheated! DisGraceFullll - POOR me! Save America! Send money! Or else.
 
WI_Red said:
On the left I don't think the next realistic candidates are the Squad. That pool is headlined by Governors Newsome and Whitmer. The progressive reps would get crushed in the primary, at least for now.
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Whitmer maybe but Newsom has probably burned too many bridges, that's sort of my point though, the squad and the idiots on the right would get get crushed so your left with the old gits!
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Will he actually be convicted of anything and if he is, chances of him actually serving jail time.
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CNN has reported that they are charging him with 30+ charges of business fraud, that seems a lot on a hush money payment so there's maybe additional stuff we don't know about, until he's arraigned we won't know for sure what the charges are, it's unlikely that he'll get jail time for this but it's not impossible
 
Red in STL said:
CNN has reported that they are charging him with 30+ charges of business fraud, that seems a lot on a hush money payment so there's maybe additional stuff we don't know about, until he's arraigned we won't know for sure what the charges are, it's unlikely that he'll get jail time for this but it's not impossible
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Yep. I suspect there's a hell of a lot more than the hush money payments. This entire thing has an Al Capone vibe to it (couldn't nail him for murder, but eventually nailed him for tax evasion).
 
Raoul said:
Yep. I suspect there's a hell of a lot more than the hush money payments. This entire thing has an Al Capone vibe to it (couldn't nail him for murder, but eventually nailed him for tax evasion).
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Could be - hard to tell as tax stuff is usually Federal level and this is State, but the Trump Org is a New York registered company - there's a fair chance they could shut it down, could also mean they go after his kids as they are heavily involved in it - guess we'll find out soon enough
 
dpansheth said:
@WI_Red , a question for you, what do they have on Lindsey? Cant be the gay thing alone, there has to be more to it.
@calodo2003 same question for you.
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I don't actually think he is being blackmailed, I just think he is an absolute coward and sycophant. He parlayed his "friendship" with McCain into an illusion of respectable moderateness, but really I think he just latched on to a strong personality to hide his lack of a spine. This was shown when he latched onto Trump and then began shitting, on command, on his "dear friend" McCain after he died. Is he gay and wants to hide that? Maybe, but I don't think that is the genesis of any hold someone has on him.
 
frostbite said:
DeSantis show is just a meaningless promotion of himself, nothing else.

It would be very stupid for Trump to hide behind DeSantis, especially since the charges are actually minor. If he did that, then DeSantis would be the HERO and Trump would be the COWARD. It is impossible for Trump to accept that, it would be extremely damaging to his image.
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Yep. DeSantis is the little doggy in the window barking at all the cars. Trump’s lawyer said he will surrender on Tuesday.
 
How will this affect the upcoming elections?

Will this whip Republicans into a fury? A harbinger of the woke mob rising to extinguish the flames of conservatism?

Feels like a win for Republicans to me unless I'm missing something.

Even if this doesn't draw out hordes of MAGA undead to the ballot, the Trump vs Republicans battle will peter out as Trump fights the charges and the Republicans rally around him knowing he wouldn't be able to fight the election anyway?
 
Suv666 said:
How will this affect the upcoming elections?

Will this whip Republicans into a fury? A harbinger of the woke mob rising to extinguish the flames of conservatism?

Feels like a win for Republicans to me unless I'm missing something.

Even if this doesn't draw out hordes of MAGA undead to the ballot, the Trump vs Republicans battle will peter out as Trump fights the charges and the Republicans rally around him knowing he wouldn't be able to fight the election anyway?
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Well Trump is trying to rally something to save his own arse from seeing the inside of a cell, but what usually happens in these cases is they throw the entire book at the person but the reality is they know they’ve only got a couple of things that will stick. The reason being is Trump could easily whip up a storm about a witch hunt if they were hitting him with one or two claims of fraud, however even his hardened lunatics will be a little bit hesitant to support someone with this many charges. You see this quite often in countries that are known for prosecuting former leaders for fraud cases.
 
Suv666 said:
How will this affect the upcoming elections?

Will this whip Republicans into a fury? A harbinger of the woke mob rising to extinguish the flames of conservatism?

Feels like a win for Republicans to me unless I'm missing something.

Even if this doesn't draw out hordes of MAGA undead to the ballot, the Trump vs Republicans battle will peter out as Trump fights the charges and the Republicans rally around him knowing he wouldn't be able to fight the election anyway?
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The horde of MAGA undead isn't big enough to win an election, to win Trump needs to get lots of independents and that's a hard task, one of his big cards was getting rid of Roe v Wade so that wing of voters need another incentive to get them to vote for him
 
Maticmaker said:
Republicans know Biden's health is against him and he is unlikely maybe even to win the Democrat nomination for 2024.
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Biden will win the nomination comfortably because nobody of consequence going to run against him (if anyone even bothers).
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Biden will win the nomination comfortably because nobody of consequence going to run against him (if anyone even bothers).
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TBH there isn't another Democrat that's probably capable of winning at this time, as long as Biden doesn't have any major health issues or huge gaffe I can't see him not being the nominee
 
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