Donald Trump - GUILTY!

GDaly95 said:
Can someone explain to me like I'm 5, what the difference is between getting indicted and being arrested?
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What is an indictment?
We can see by what you're searching on Google that many of you in the UK have questions about this complicated case. First up, what exactly is an indictment?

It's a formal written accusation that a person has committed a crime. It typically involves felony charges, though not always. Felonies are crimes punishable by a term of imprisonment of one year or more.

In Trump’s case, the indictment does involve felony charges.

The indictment is used to inform an accused person about the charges against them.

Unlike regular charges brought forth by a prosecutor, an indictment is the result of a secret vote by a grand jury. This is a group of citizens who hear evidence, including witness testimony, and decide whether there is enough evidence to charge a person with a crime.
 
rpitroda said:
I can’t help but feel like this will inevitably somehow help his re-election, no matter how obscene that seems.
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Just as he was floating off like a bad fart.....someone strikes a match and its Groundhog day...all over again!:rolleyes:
 
FireballXL5 said:
This one made me laugh...

FshYkB9WAAIc3Ux
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Epic burn!
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
What is an indictment?
We can see by what you're searching on Google that many of you in the UK have questions about this complicated case. First up, what exactly is an indictment?

It's a formal written accusation that a person has committed a crime. It typically involves felony charges, though not always. Felonies are crimes punishable by a term of imprisonment of one year or more.

In Trump’s case, the indictment does involve felony charges.

The indictment is used to inform an accused person about the charges against them.

Unlike regular charges brought forth by a prosecutor, an indictment is the result of a secret vote by a grand jury. This is a group of citizens who hear evidence, including witness testimony, and decide whether there is enough evidence to charge a person with a crime.
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It’s an exclusively US thing as well. The UK equivalent is a count sheet I think.
 
Tincanalley said:
@Raoul, and other US watchers - a question, or a crystal ball exercise... Is this going to play as a) A divisive and destabilising period in US politics or b) A tiresome long-drawn out process, a series that goes on too long, sucked dry of drama?

I imagine that he may be 3/4 times indicted; in 12 months we will be enmeshed in appeals, etc. I suppose the election gives us a ticking clock. The Republican who oppose Trump have to tread a tightrope…I also can see CNN etc ratings benefit. From Twitter you would think he’s already behind bars? Can you help with the bigger picture? (The thread title, while funny and clever, doesn’t help).
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I think more B than A, but probably a bit of both. Trump's base is only shrinking as he doesn't have any policies for the future, so I think the force of MAGA has only blunted & not expanding.

I surmise there will be far less protests & far fewer numbers at said protests.
 
calodo2003 said:
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I'd say let him run even frm prison. Can only be good if Trump and DeSantis throw dirt at each other. Maybe Trump will be so petty that he tells his MAGA folks not to vote for DeSantis when he wins the preelection.
 
Zehner said:
I'd say let him run even frm prison. Can only be good if Trump and DeSantis throw dirt at each other. Maybe Trump will be so petty that he tells his MAGA folks not to vote for DeSantis when he wins the preelection.
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I don't see DeSantis seriously going after Trump, as he needs his base to win. Funny thing is, the rabbit hole vote is likely to help Trump win the primary but it wouldn't be enough to give him the presidency. A real dilemma for the GOP, which should give the democrats time to plan how to do a Weekend at Bernie's in the next year elections.
 
People underestimate just how many supporters trump has. Imagine 500 old traffords, side by side. You would run out of room to house his fans, and need to build around 500 more. It’s nuts.
 
Zehner said:
I'd say let him run even frm prison. Can only be good if Trump and DeSantis throw dirt at each other. Maybe Trump will be so petty that he tells his MAGA folks not to vote for DeSantis when he wins the preelection.
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DeSantis won’t run. It makes zero sense to run now against trump, even if he somehow won the primary he would alienate a base that he needs to win the presidency. He’ll sit this cycle out.
 
Well if both parties’ nr 1 priority is to hate on each other then this is what you get I guess. I do think the aim of politics initially was to work together to create a better overall environment. What the USA needs is someone who does not throw mud, a bridge builder. There are so many pressing matters so it is a bit of a shame that both democrats and republicans only have eyes for each other.
 
Mickeza said:
DeSantis won’t run. It makes zero sense to run now against trump, even if he somehow won the primary he would alienate a base that he needs to win the presidency. He’ll sit this cycle out.
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His political star has never been brighter. Sitting the cycle out doesn't help him, 4 years later the political climate may have changed significantly, there will be other contenders and he may not be as popular anymore. Despite everything this may be his best shot at the nomination.
 
Krakenzero said:
I don't see DeSantis seriously going after Trump, as he needs his base to win. Funny thing is, the rabbit hole vote is likely to help Trump win the primary but it wouldn't be enough to give him the presidency. A real dilemma for the GOP, which should give the democrats time to plan how to do a Weekend at Bernie's in the next year elections.
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Mickeza said:
DeSantis won’t run. It makes zero sense to run now against trump, even if he somehow won the primary he would alienate a base that he needs to win the presidency. He’ll sit this cycle out.
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That's interesting, thanks! I was under the impression DeSantis would for sure give it a try. But hasn't he alienated himself from Trump already to a certain extent? They aren't exactly an the best terms if I recall it correctly. I guess that's why I thought DeSantis is targeting the presidency already.
 
Akshay said:
His political star has never been brighter. Sitting the cycle out doesn't help him, 4 years later the political climate may have changed significantly, there will be other contenders and he may not be as popular anymore. Despite everything this may be his best shot at the nomination.
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I disagree. He will sit this out and pick up the pieces when Trump loses the election. It’s the smart play. These events are only going to help Trump in the primary as it will galvanise his base. Very likely DeSantis won’t beat trump in the primary and even if he does what do we think Trump will do in response to that? Fall in line meekly behind the new leader and tell his base to back him?
 
Zehner said:
That's interesting, thanks! I was under the impression DeSantis would for sure give it a try. But hasn't he alienated himself from Trump already to a certain extent? They aren't exactly an the best terms if I recall it correctly. I guess that's why I thought DeSantis is targeting the presidency already.
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Another thing to add is that he is term limited as Governor, so he can not run again in 26. This means he would go into the 28 election cycle not holding any office. Of course it being Florida there is no reason to believe he won't just have the subservient legislature remove term limits, but as of now he would be officeless.
 
wangyu said:
Well if both parties’ nr 1 priority is to hate on each other then this is what you get I guess. I do think the aim of politics initially was to work together to create a better overall environment. What the USA needs is someone who does not throw mud, a bridge builder. There are so many pressing matters so it is a bit of a shame that both democrats and republicans only have eyes for each other.
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They need to get rid of the two party system. But neither democrats nor republicans are interested in that.
 
FriedClams said:
People underestimate just how many supporters trump has. Imagine 500 old traffords, side by side. You would run out of room to house his fans, and need to build around 500 more. It’s nuts.
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It's weird you say that as whenever there's a Trump rally there's really not that many people attending. Is it a case where he has a small number of hardcore fans but more ordinary Republicans follow him?
 
Zehner said:
That's interesting, thanks! I was under the impression DeSantis would for sure give it a try. But hasn't he alienated himself from Trump already to a certain extent? They aren't exactly an the best terms if I recall it correctly. I guess that's why I thought DeSantis is targeting the presidency already.
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In fairness he might give it a bash! My own opinion forged from watching the west wing multiple times is that would be stupid. He’s young enough to wait and not have to take on Trump which is a massive risk. Trump has gone after him quite a bit I don’t think he’s gone after Trump…might have missed that though.
 
wangyu said:
Well if both parties’ nr 1 priority is to hate on each other then this is what you get I guess. I do think the aim of politics initially was to work together to create a better overall environment. What the USA needs is someone who does not throw mud, a bridge builder. There are so many pressing matters so it is a bit of a shame that both democrats and republicans only have eyes for each other.
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Biden is as good as the USA can possibly hope for in that regard.

Have you bought into the idea these investigations are politically motivated?
 
Mickeza said:
I disagree. He will sit this out and pick up the pieces when Trump loses the election. It’s the smart play. These events are only going to help Trump in the primary as it will galvanise his base. Very likely DeSantis won’t beat trump in the primary and even if he does what do we think Trump will do in response to that? Fall in line meekly behind the new leader and tell his base to back him?
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The moment DeSantis backs out of the primary he becomes irrelevant and loses all national coverage. And he'll remain that way for the next several years. You have to keep running if you want to stay in the limelight, once you give up the momentum it's very hard to get it back again.

On the other hand, it's very difficult to predict what Trump will do. Even if Trump wins the nomination and loses the general election, he might try to spin it as fraud again and still challenge the next primary (assuming he's not imprisoned).

This cycle was supposed to be DeSantis' time but Trump is fecking it up for him. A situation I'm very grateful for.
 
FriedClams said:
People underestimate just how many supporters trump has. Imagine 500 old traffords, side by side. You would run out of room to house his fans, and need to build around 500 more. It’s nuts.
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If you look at the size of his rallies thse days, he would not even be able to fill half of Fratton Park. :lol: :lol:

Most Republicans will vote for him only because of party, but the stench of his past and his crimes will be a major turn-off to independents (a.k.a. those that any candidate must win over in a presidential election).
 
RedSky said:
It's weird you say that as whenever there's a Trump rally there's really not that many people attending. Is it a case where he has a small number of hardcore fans but more ordinary Republicans follow him?
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There's a lot of silent supporters. Those people typically only care about being republican because that's the party that keeps wealthy people wealthier, and that's all there is to it. They put up with idiocy because with him in charge, they'll be richer. And there are tens of millions of those people in the USA.
 
FriedClams said:
There's a lot of silent supporters. Those people typically only care about being republican because that's the party that keeps wealthy people wealthier, and that's all there is to it. They put up with idiocy because with him in charge, they'll be richer. And there are tens of millions of those people in the USA.
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Those same people would just turn to the next Republican though, it's not like they've got some hardcore love for the guy. They just support him because he's a Republican leader. Give them an alternative and they'll leave him in the dirt.
 
Simbo said:
Biden is as good as the USA can possibly hope for in that regard.

Have you bought into the idea these investigations are politically motivated?
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To some extent, no?
I’m not very much into politics mind

From the outside it looks like Biden is doing a good nob imo
 
Akshay said:
The moment DeSantis backs out of the primary he becomes irrelevant and loses all national coverage.
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So anyone who doesn’t run in the primary will have zero national coverage ever again? That’s blatantly not true. Fox love him and will continue to love him especially when he makes a deal with Trump and spins it as putting party and country first supporting Trump against the terrible democratic witch hunts these indictments are. When Trump inevitably loses the election he can fill that void and will have 4 years to strengthen and cement that position with fox behind him. That’s a far more likely outcome than beating trump in the primary against the backdrop of the indictments AND still getting his base to vote for him in the election with Trump doing Christ knows what. The long game is the smart play.
 
Akshay said:
The moment DeSantis backs out of the primary he becomes irrelevant and loses all national coverage. And he'll remain that way for the next several years. You have to keep running if you want to stay in the limelight, once you give up the momentum it's very hard to get it back again.

On the other hand, it's very difficult to predict what Trump will do. Even if Trump wins the nomination and loses the general election, he might try to spin it as fraud again and still challenge the next primary (assuming he's not imprisoned).

This cycle was supposed to be DeSantis' time but Trump is fecking it up for him. A situation I'm very grateful for.
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DeSantis hasn't declared any intent to run yet. He's basically been running a shadow campaign by running without saying he's running (doing interviews with the likes of Piers Morgan and others etc). I think he's waiting to see how the Trump situation shakes out. If it appears Trump is in far worse legal trouble than what happened yesterday, then he will probably declare in a month or two.
 
Raoul said:
DeSantis hasn't declared any intent to run yet. He's basically been running a shadow campaign by running without saying he's running (doing interviews with the likes of Piers Morgan and others etc). I think he's waiting to see how the Trump situation shakes out. If it appears Trump is in far worse legal trouble than what happened yesterday, then he will probably declare in a month or two.
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Somebody told me the other day Trump could even run for presidency out of prison?
 
Mickeza said:
So anyone who doesn’t run in the primary will have zero national coverage ever again? That’s blatantly not true. Fox love him and will continue to love him especially when he makes a deal with Trump and spins it as putting party and country first supporting Trump against the terrible democratic witch hunts these indictments are. When Trump inevitably loses the election he can fill that void and will have 4 years to strengthen and cement that position with fox behind him. That’s a far more likely outcome than beating trump in the primary against the backdrop of the indictments AND still getting his base to vote for him in the election with Trump doing Christ knows what. The long game is the smart play.
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He'll be largely out of the discussion until the general election, which is still a year and half away at this point. He doesn't gain anything by saying he won't compete at this point, at the very least see how the initial primaries go and take a call from there. I don't think he's the automatic choice for the next cycle if he doesn't even compete, he'll just be handing over airtime to other contenders.

Raoul said:
DeSantis hasn't declared any intent to run yet. He's basically been running a shadow campaign by running without saying he's running (doing interviews with the likes of Piers Morgan and others etc). I think he's waiting to see how the Trump situation shakes out. If it appears Trump is in far worse legal trouble than what happened yesterday, then he will probably declare in a month or two.
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Yeah, it's definitely the smart choice for him to delay a decision as long as possible. It's a perverse situation where I want Trump brought to justice but would rather he still wins the Republican nomination because I don't think he'd beat Biden, but DeSantis would.
 
Zehner said:
Somebody told me the other day Trump could even run for presidency out of prison?
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Yep. Which would be a massive disaster for Republicans given that half their base would vote for him, while the other less insane part would stay home knowing he didn't have a chance of winning. The best case scenario for a Biden reelection would probably be if DeSantis is the R nominee, a jailed or legally wounded Trump runs as an independent, which would completely split the R vote and allow Biden (even at his old age) to coast to victory.
 
wangyu said:
To some extent, no?
I’m not very much into politics mind

From the outside it looks like Biden is doing a good nob imo
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some of the things Biden has done are incredible. https://joebiden.com/accomplishments/#

He just doesnt Have “it” in terms of what the public really needs to get behind him as opposed to just keeping republicans out.

I feel the best kind of leader for America probably dips in and out of left and right with their policies, but has Obama level charisma.
 
FriedClams said:
People underestimate just how many supporters trump has. Imagine 500 old traffords, side by side. You would run out of room to house his fans, and need to build around 500 more. It’s nuts.
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They've dwindled significantly since 2016.
 
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