Do you really believe in ABU decisions, officials with agendas against us etc

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I read a lot of posts during the terrible decision earlier that argue everything from ABU referees to match fixing. I know it can be said in the heat of the moment but there does seem to be an ongoing sentiment that officials can be against us. I personally find the idea ridiculous and never think to myself that is the case as we see week in week out how awful decisions can be all over the pitch for any team. In this game I obviously assumed it would be chalked off like everyone else and then when it was allowed I didn't think Taylor had it in for us, instead that he had seen it as an accidental handball and somehow decided it was still alright to stand. I'm much more comfortable thinking referees are simply rubbish, inconsistent and incompetent as we see throughout each season instead of some massive agenda against us - especially when fans from every single team in the league would argue we get more favourable decisions and actually the refs are against them. This to me seems to be the one constant which suggests people are just too insular and biased.
 
God yes, it’s human nature
 
Hectic said:
I read a lot of posts during the terrible decision earlier that argue everything from ABU referees to match fixing. I know it can be said in the heat of the moment but there does seem to be an ongoing sentiment that officials can be against us. I personally find the idea ridiculous and never think to myself that is the case as we see week in week out how awful decisions can be all over the pitch for any team. In this game I obviously assumed it would be chalked off like everyone else and then when it was allowed I didn't think Taylor had it in for us, instead that he had seen it as an accidental handball and somehow decided it was still alright to stand. I'm much more comfortable thinking referees are simply rubbish, inconsistent and incompetent as we see throughout each season instead of some massive agenda against us - especially when fans from every single team in the league would argue we get more favourable decisions and actually the refs are against them. This to me seems to be the one constant which suggests people are just too insular and biased.
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Bore off
 
Jeppers7 said:
Bore off
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It's an honest question and not one intended to inflame. I always thought it was nonsense when teams from every other team moan about agendas against them each week too.
 
Don’t believe in ABU but the refs are crooked as feck and why wouldn’t they be, they are not punished for their “mistakes”.
 
dove said:
Don’t believe in ABU but the refs are crooked as feck and why wouldn’t they be, they are not punished for their “mistakes”.
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Crooked how and to what end?
 
Of course not.

Literally all the other top sides make the same complaints about refs being biased against them. And all the smaller sides complain about bias towards the top sides. We can't all be right and it would be arrogant/delusional to think we're the only ones who are. It's nonsense.

It's just random, erratic incompetence. There's so little reason or consistency to what they do anyway that trying to claim they're biased against us is akin to saying the weather is plotting against you.
 
sullydnl said:
Of course not.

Literally all the other top sides make the same complaints about refs being biased against them. And all the smaller sides complain about bias towards the top sides. We can't all be right and it would be arrogant/delusional to think we're the only ones who are. It's nonsense.

It's just random, erratic incompetence. There's so little reason or consistency to what they do that trying to claim they're biased against us is akin to saying the weather is plotting against you.
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I think this is the only sensible conclusion to draw and the rest is likely emotional and bias thinking taking over.
 
Nah the refs are just fecking shit. They’re fecking shit for all teams.
 
Pretend United scored an equaliser like that and imagine the fallout on itv and online. There is a deep rooted hatred of United, and combined with truly narcissistic referees wanting to show who's boss, who are also football fans, it would be absurd to think there aren't at least a handful that will be actively biased against united.

There's no way to prove it but if that was boro v villa the goal is instantly ruled out by ref, confirmed by var and nobody ever even mentions it again.
 
SER19 said:
Pretend United scored an equaliser like that and imagine the fallout on itv and online. There is a deep rooted hatred of United, and combined with truly narcissistic referees wanting to show who's boss, it would be absurd to think there aren't at least a handful that will be actively biased against united.

There's no way to prove it but if that was boro v villa the goal is instantly ruled out by ref, confirmed by var and nobody ever even mentions it again.
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Exactly. You won’t see that given again this season.
 
Oh come on, we get plenty of decisions in our favour. Plus tonite we were at home against a team that costs less than Pogbas haircut.
 
SER19 said:
Pretend United scored an equaliser like that and imagine the fallout on itv and online. There is a deep rooted hatred of United, and combined with truly narcissistic referees wanting to show who's boss, who are also football fans, it would be absurd to think there aren't at least a handful that will be actively biased against united.

There's no way to prove it but if that was boro v villa the goal is instantly ruled out by ref, confirmed by var and nobody ever even mentions it again.
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This plus 10
 
SER19 said:
Pretend United scored an equaliser like that and imagine the fallout on itv and online. There is a deep rooted hatred of United, and combined with truly narcissistic referees wanting to show who's boss, who are also football fans, it would be absurd to think there aren't at least a handful that will be actively biased against united.

There's no way to prove it but if that was boro v villa the goal is instantly ruled out by ref, confirmed by var and nobody ever even mentions it again.
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Probably because we are a globally recognised team and Middlesbrough are...Middlesbrough.
 
Ever since Klopp ranted about United and refereeing, United have had an avalanche of bad decisions against while conversely Liverpool have had just about everything go for them
 
I believe in some cnut having enough of it and the starting a thread like this.
 
Of course not, officials aren't against us we're just not a very good football team and that's why we lose games
 
I don't believe the officials are against us. I watch horrendous decisions get made on a weekly basis by these refs against all teams. People think it's worse for their team, but if you watch other games, you'll see this shite in a lot of them.
 
Obviously when you watch one team constantly you’re going to focus on all the decisions that don’t go your way. I don’t think there’s any fans of certain teams thinking they get all the luck in every decision, and probably the inverse is true.

Football is pain. We should just all learn to live with it.
 
The refs are terrible, the laws are so ambiguous and convoluted nobody knows what's happening anymore. There's definitely not an agenda againat us in terms of officiating, these decisions average out over time I fully believe.

But for sure, I think there's an ABU agenda from the media. I'm sure the goal won't be discussed much, but if we had won the game in a similar vein, the goals would be discussed to death.

As for the goal itself, I don't care if someone explains to me one million times how it's fine because handball is "accidental", or how the fine print in the rulebook should be applied and that makes it ok. It's handball, and the goal should not have stood.

I mean, why are defenders trying to block the ball not allowed to claim it's accidental when the ball strikes them? Does it matter if their arm is in an unnatural position? I mean it's accidental, right?

The guy literally has lost control of the ball, and it hits his hand. If it doesn't hit his hand, then they don't score. How have they not gained an advantage from the handball? Anyway, it's irrelevant. We had enough chances to win 3 games tonight. Need to look in the mirror.
 
Superden said:
Oh come on, we get plenty of decisions in our favour. Plus tonite we were at home against a team that costs less than Pogbas haircut.
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Had we scored their goal, not a chance it’s not wiped off for that handball. lad had lost the ball of not for him outstretched arm knocking it down for him.
But referees aren’t responsible for that display, a few of our players simply should not be wearing a United shirt.
 
Whats the point being ABU now? The officials could give us all the decisions in the world and we would still not win any trophies.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Ever since Klopp ranted about United and refereeing, United have had an avalanche of bad decisions against while conversely Liverpool have had just about everything go for them
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You surely must know that's just not true. I don't even watch most of their games and yet remember fouls that should have been penalties and decisions that have gone against them. You can ask any of their fans and unless you believe they are all lying or deluded they will argue there's been many games where the refs have fecked them over - as would any fan from any team in the league.
 
I'm sure Richard Keys is furious and is rallying the troops to put a stop to this.
 
Officials aren’t against us…tonight was just pure incompetence and hiding behind a ‘rule’. If for instance Shaw smashes the ball against the attacker’s hand (in a natural position) then he assists a goal, then fine, goal. But tonight this guy has a shit first touch, plays a one-two off his hand then assists the equaliser. It’s just wrong.
 
I don't believe in agendas. People can be girls or/and boys now.

There's no agenda but everyone loves an underdog story.
 
CloneMC16 said:
I don't believe the officials are against us. I watch horrendous decisions get made on a weekly basis by these refs against all teams. People think it's worse for their team, but if you watch other games, you'll see this shite in a lot of them.
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This is what I struggle with. You don't even really have to be that objective about it as you can pick any game over the next week and I guarantee there will be some shocking decisions in them.
 
SER19 said:
How does that in any way contradict what i said
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I didn't say it contradicts it but the fallout would obviously be massive because we are a huge club and discussion points are far more relevant and far reaching when it involves a club of our stature.
 
No, there is no agenda. There is just human stupidity. The no call today was stupid beyond all belief, but it was not motivated by a desire to see United lose the match.
 
Of course there is no organised agenda, but I have always felt and argued (even when we were really good) that we actually get fewer decisions than we should, because referees are aware that they will be absolutely hammered if they give us anything even remotely controversial.

Plus, I do always feel like we English love a good underdog, so if there's a 50:50 decision, I actually think the referee is inclined to think it's safer to give the underdog the benefit of any doubt
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Ever since Klopp ranted about United and refereeing, United have had an avalanche of bad decisions against while conversely Liverpool have had just about everything go for them
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You can't watch Atkinson calls vs Ronaldo against wolves this year and his decade record with us and believe he's impartial. Even if he isn't consciously doing it. Its not a conspiracy, but Uniteds success and the weight of decisions involving United affects some of these guys.

There's no 'anybody but Liverpool' or 'anybody but city'. There's an entire subculture of fandom that revolves around hating man United. To think it doesn't seep into some refs is absurdly naive
 
Hectic said:
I didn't say it contradicts it but the fallout would obviously be massive because we are a huge club and discussion points are far more relevant and far reaching when it involves a club of our stature.
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You're making a different point then, but also still adding to mine. Because it's man utd, the decisions mean more, and that also impacts refs.
 
SER19 said:
You can't watch Atkinson calls vs Ronaldo against wolves this year and his decade record with us and believe he's impartial. Even if he isn't consciously doing it. Its not a conspiracy, but Uniteds success and the weight of decisions involving United affects some of these guys. There's no 'anybody but Liverpool' or 'anybody but city'. There's an entire subculture of fandom that revolves around hating man United. To think it doesn't seep into some refs is absurdly naive
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Sure there is. Well in the sense that their fans complain there is. You can choose to ignore all the fans from those teams who cry about the exact same thing but that's a choice, not an absence of fact.
 
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Hectic said:
I think this is the only sensible conclusion to draw and the rest is likely emotional and bias thinking taking over.
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Plus you can also just look at the actual numbers of VAR overturns for/against.

In the 19/20 season we benefitted the 2nd most from VAR with +7 net overturns in our favour. In 20/21 though we were only 12th, with an equal amount of overturns for/against.

You see similar variance for other teams too. In 19/20 Liverpool were 7th with +2, then 19th in 20/21 with -6, then back up to 4th this season with +2. Or with smaller sides look at Burnley, 1st on +4 last season but 14th on -2 this season.

Either refs randomly pick different teams to be biased against each season, or it's just random.
 
SER19 said:
You can't watch Atkinson calls vs Ronaldo against wolves this year and his decade record with us and believe he's impartial. Even if he isn't consciously doing it. Its not a conspiracy, but Uniteds success and the weight of decisions involving United affects some of these guys.

There's no 'anybody but Liverpool' or 'anybody but city'. There's an entire subculture of fandom that revolves around hating man United. To think it doesn't seep into some refs is absurdly naive
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I do think that that the dominant period that United had, has since gone against us. All refs now have that ‘I don’t want to come across as Howard Webb’ at the back of their mind.
That is a real narrative created by opposition fans jealous of United’s success
 
SER19 said:
You're making a different point then, but also still adding to mine. Because it's man utd, the decisions mean more, and that also impacts refs.
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I'm talking purely about the response from a media station and people online. It's always going to be bigger because we are one of the biggest clubs in the world. The talking points over a United game for or against, win or lose, controversial or not will always be bigger.
 
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